11mm Gras from .348 Winchester Problems

[w10085]

I'm a long time reader but infrequent poster. I can usually find just what I need on this site. Now I need some advice. I reformed some 11mm Gras from some .348 winchester. On the first live shoot I have two case failures. My picture shows the unformed case. The second shows a case after fire forming. I annealed the neck and shoulder but did not go very far down the body. The third and fourth picture show my two failures. What am I doing wrong? Should I have annealed the cases again after fire forming? Should I anneal down further down? The cases are made by Winchester and are about 10 years old. I bought a bag for future projects and this ended up being one of them. Thanks in advance!

[salpal48]

Well possibly You are doing Nothing wrong. I have 6 Gras Rifles and carbines. . All I have shot with Originals and formed Brass. All the cases react the brass differently. You have to Remember When The French Surplus them Out, They when to questionable countries in The Middle east and Indo china. What ever They did to them . Is unknown. Many counrties Just messed them Up. ( Chambers ) and You have the results. Not saying Your is messed up.. Several Of mine are messed up
The 348 is a good choice but Not Ideal. The body Of the case is Too small. . and some The chambers are Too big. . Every time you Load them You will get cases like that. When I said I use original . I have 1870-1880 Brass. That I pulled and berdan Re primed and annealed.
when I said The chambers are messed up . The countries Turned the Rifles Into What Is called In Cartridges collecting " Primatives". Meaning any cartridge You can Chamber It will Fire.. One rile I have > Will fire, 11 mm Gras, 43 egypt, 43 spanish, Strait wall cases and probably Other.
I would just continue what your Doing .
I have even shot the ones with the Cracks. That what Tape is for. I'm Serious
Sal

[Mk42gunner]

I have a few bags of .348 Win brass from about fifteen years ago. To say it is strong and hard to form is a very big understatement. If memory serves correctly, I could expand the neck with a tapered expander to .375 before I had shoulder crumpling.

You didn't mention what load you were using to fireform?

I would stand the brass in a pan with water about 1/2 to 9/16" deep and play a torch on them until I saw a color change down almost to the water line. Anneal after trying to expand the neck, otherwise the shoulder turns into an accordion.

I'm not sure how strong the Gras is, you may always have wasp waited cases.

Robert

[w10085]

I think I'm using about 9 grains of unique behind cream of wheat. Sometimes it takes two times to fully form the neck. I'll try annealing further down using a pan of water as you suggested MK42gunner. Also thanks for the info Sal. I'm just getting into this cartridge. The accuracy has been good with pistol bullets. I've go a lot yet to learn.

[ascast]

I'm a long time reader but infrequent poster. I can usually find just what I need on this site. Now I need some advice. I reformed some 11mm Gras from some .348 winchester. On the first live shoot I have two case failures. My picture shows the unformed case. The second shows a case after fire forming. I annealed the neck and shoulder but did not go very far down the body. The third and fourth picture show my two failures. What am I doing wrong? Should I have annealed the cases again after fire forming? Should I anneal down further down? The cases are made by Winchester and are about 10 years old. I bought a bag for future projects and this ended up being one of them. Thanks in advance!

I have done lots of these, for Gras and Werndle. Your 2nd case is typical. Now load it up and shoot with a bullet to get the body blown out. Save all your rejects when casting for this purpose, or other junk bullets. 10grns Unique, fill with cream of wheat or dry rice, twist of tissue paper to hold it together, point up, bang. 2nd shot, 8-10 grns unique and bullet.
I used new fresh brass, Remington I think. Never had to fire more than twice. Never had cases split like that either except with original 1887 Werndle ammo. I suspect the brass is thinner and not of consistant wall thickness. Do you point up on first fire?

[ascast]

Wait till you get ready to sit at the bench and blast off a bunch lol