need help from you expert reloaders

[johnson1942]

i have a uberti 1875 remington in 44/40. it is a very nice tight revolver. i bought a box of 50 cowboy loads and i dont remember what brand but every one fired really nice and they were accurate. then i loaded up 200 my self perfectly with winchester primers that say large pistol for standard or magnum loads WLP. they primers are not into the pockets too much and flush with the rear of the case as they should be. about 2 out of six dont go off. i know what the first part of the problem is as i put in a aftermarket main spring in the gun when i got it as the original was way too stiff. however the over the counter rounds worked perfectly and i dont know what kind of primers they used. i most likely will put a heavier spring back in but here is the question. is their a primer i can reload with that works better than these winchesters? if i could find primers like the factory loaded cowboy rounds i would just use those. HELP, FROM YOU EXPERTS. thanks before hand.

[Iron Whittler]

The Winchester brand should work nicely. I load 45 colt cowboy/ plinking loads with win primers. No issues. A few things to watch for are , primers must be seated fully. They may be flush with face of case, but not seated to bottom of primer pocket. This will allow primer to move with firing pin until fully seated. This can result in misfires. Are you getting uniform firing pin indentions on all rounds? Light strikes on some, but good on the others in cylinder may indicate cases with different rim thickness, or a cylinder bore that is deeper in rim area. Yes, some brands be harder to set off than others. I find federal to work well with the lighter spring weights. Clean your primer pockets, be sure to seat to bottom of pocket, try other brands of primers. If you find one that works for you, stay with them. If not, you may need to install a stronger spring. I hope this will give you a little assistance in locating the problem. Above all, don't give up, Help is here for the asking. Others may have some ideas to help. Iron Whittler:Fire:

[fast ronnie]

I have heard that Federal primers should not be used in the M1 Garand because the cups are thinner and a light pin strike from a floating pin (could)? set them off. I have not seen this, though. It may be true, and might be worth trying those and see if it helps.

[Pipefitter]

Seat the primers to the bottom of the primer pocket, if you are using a hand held primer seater you should develop a feel for when this happens. Primers should seat below flush in the case heads. Also try the Federal primers, they seem to be easier to set off with lighter firing pin strikes.

[jrmartin1964]

Your primers should be seated such that the anvil is in full contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. The cup of the primer will be somewhat - both noticeably and measurably - BELOW the head of the case. Seating short of this can result in the firing pin's blow being effectively cushioned as the primer is forced fully into the pocket, causing the annoying failure to fire.

Did you attempt to fire the cartridges in question a second time? And if so, did they fire on the second try?

It is possible that the lighter mainspring you installed could be the culprit, but I would first make sure that the primers are seated properly - until the anvil bottoms against the primer pocket.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I suspect the cause of your problem is the aftermarket light mainspring.
That being said I've had problems with Winchester brass and Winchester primers in the .38 Special and small primers.
I use a Lyman primer reamer on all my brass.
The Lyman prime reamer can be used in a hand drill, it just cuts the primer pocket to it proper dimensions. Primers a soft metal and are easily deformed went seating.
What kind of aftermarket mainspring are you using? The ones with slot in the middle are too light. I use the cobra design.

[johnson1942]

i dont remember the spring type but their is no slot cut in the middle. also they went off the second time i tried them so that would mean too light a spring? also im going to take the advice of several and get federal primers next time also. the brass was new and i know now i should used a pocket device to make the primer pockets even. keep the advice coming, thanks.

[quail4jake]

Check the lift off weight of the mainspring at the hammer spur. < 6 lb will cause this with Winchester primers but will likely set off CCIs. My Ruger new vaquero lifts at just 6 lb and does great with CCI but will not set off Winchesters whereas my S&W #3 repro sets anything off and has a lift off weight of 9 lb. These results are the product of trials by a non attorney spokesperson (me), your results may vary. I never changed the spring on my Ruger because I use CCI in it and Winchesters in the #3 to differentiate them as they take different boolit diameters. Best of luck!

[hp246]

I would try Federal primers before switching springs. My Rugers and Ubertis have been lightened up. About 1 round in 200 dont like Winchester primers. No problem with Federal. My 1911s for Wild Bunch don't care either way.

[Wise Owl]

also they went off the second time i tried them so that would mean too light a spring?

Maybe, maybe not, I would seat them deeper before I bought anything.
You need to get the anvil seated at the bottom of the pocket.
Flush with the case head means nothing. softer federal primers may not help either.
I could see the softer federal primers if the primers were seated fully and still didn't go off with your lighter spring.

Seating the primers fully is S O P not just one of those try this--try that thing.

[johnson1942]

just bought some powder at the local hardware and the man their loads alot and says i dont seat my primers deep enough. i think with a heavier spring they would go off but i like the lighter spring. will try federals or cci next time. i know the cci shot gun primers work better for me.

[Hogdaddy]

As was said by others ,First time hammer seats the primmer all the way second hammer drop sets them off ; ) PS- Seat primmers all the way
H/D

[SierraHunter]

Primers should actually be seated slightly below flush, so thy are tight against the bottom of the primer pocket. Primers not seat all the way can cause accuracy issues as well as open up the extreme spread.

In my experience Federal primers go off much easier then most other brands, and will go off in all of my guns that have weak firing pin hits

[.45Cole]

Federal primers are softer than winnys. My 625 had a lot of work and wouldn't fire some double action drops of the hammer. Switching to Fed primers solved the problem and allows my double action shooting without changing the spring tension.

[M-Tecs]

Federal primers use a more sensitive priming compound and are preferred for revolvers with light springs. All primers need to be seated so the anvil contact the bottom of the primmer hole. On US primers the anvil is proud (sticks up) on Russian primers the anvil is flush.

[44man]

Primers need struck, no matter the brand. Worst thing to do is weaken the hammer spring. Buy an over power variable spring from Wolfe. I use 26# in all my revolvers even with Fed primers.
Even if your gun just fires, you lose all accuracy that way.
Hammer springs do not affect triggers. I get down to 19 oz with a 26# spring, no creep.
I shot IHMSA for years and when I stopped hitting steel, a new spring was installed, bought them by the dozen.

[gwpercle]

Seat the primers until they bottom out in the primer pocket...all the way in .
Your first strike seated the primer all the way in , the second strike fired it because it was now properly seated.
The gun fired the factory loads , they had properly seated primers , it's not the primer brand and it's not the the spring.
Practice seating primers , loading the primed cases ( no powder & no boolits) into your gun and shooting them, when you get 100% ignition, you've got the primer seating thing down. Reloading has a lot of learning curve to it...always look at the simple solutions first.
Good idea not to change springs until you have tested a gun....harder to diagnose problems when done this way.

Gary

[hp246]

just bought some powder at the local hardware and the man their loads alot and says i dont seat my primers deep enough. i think with a heavier spring they would go off but i like the lighter spring. will try federals or cci next time. i know the cci shot gun primers work better for me.If you are having problems with Winchesters, absolutely stay away from CCI. Try Federals.

[scattershot]

i dont remember the spring type but their is no slot cut in the middle. also they went off the second time i tried them so that would mean too light a spring? also im going to take the advice of several and get federal primers next time also. the brass was new and i know now i should used a pocket device to make the primer pockets even. keep the advice coming, thanks.

What is most likely happening is a combination of a weak hammer spring and primers not being seated flush. The first strike of the firing pin seats the primer more deeply in the pocket, and the second strike sets it off. Before doing anything else, work on getting your primers seated to the bottom of the pocket. That should solve your problem.

[johnson1942]

thanks every one for your advice, im going to get a better priming tool that has more leverage. are the table mounted ones better leverage wise? my hand gets tired with the hand held one. recommend one if you guys want to?

[rond]

thanks every one for your advice, im going to get a better priming tool that has more leverage. are the table mounted ones better leverage wise? my hand gets tired with the hand held one. recommend one if you guys want to?

I've used the Lee hand held for the last 35 years, haven't worn it out yet. I reload thousands of rounds a year.

[scattershot]

Some may disagree, but I've never had a problem with the priming station right on the press itself.

[44man]

thanks every one for your advice, im going to get a better priming tool that has more leverage. are the table mounted ones better leverage wise? my hand gets tired with the hand held one. recommend one if you guys want to?
You can ruin a primer with leverage. I use the lee hand tool to feel a primer bottom. You MUST get the anvil up just at the bottom of the cup to sensitize the primer, too much and you will break the compound.
Look at a primer, see the anvil just proud? Seat until the cup is against the pocket. Force is wrong.
I blame your spring still. semi or auto military rifles with floating pins need very tough primers and every primer we use will slam fire. SKS and such will fire just chambering with our primers. I have altered the pins to spring them to stop it.
To look for a thinner or softer primer cup does you no good for accuracy. If you need them, back off and fix the gun.
Why anyone thinks a weak mainspring aids trigger pull has had me up in arms for years.

[44man]

I am a tired old SOB and throw my hands up from stupid. 63 years of loading without a single failure of a hand load is lost with millennials.
I don't understand why old gun rag stuff is still posted.

[johnson1942]

i agree with you 44 man, my trigger pull is great and doesnt need improvement, the gun with the old spring was very very hard to cock, its a single action. im ordering a new spring thats inbetween tomorrow and do all the stuff suggested. can you explain the last post, i have no idea what you said. ive left 70 and headed for 80 years old, maybe im to old to understand it.

[44man]

Too much in the printed word to lighten the mainspring of course. Mostly for DA so the hammer is easier. True you must cock the hammer with the trigger. You don't do that SA.
Now a FAST spring, though lighter or a lighter hammer can help for speed. It still comes to impact on the primer.
DA has less hammer throw then SA because it releases sooner so if you reduce the spring too much it can fail whole SA can still work. Either way you shoot blanks.
I never figured it out but a weak spring can ruin the accuracy built in the gun. ANY gun from a bolt rifle to a revolver. You can speed lock time but it is not the factor. As long as primer impact is enough, both work.

[Outpost75]

I agree that the lightened mainspring is the culprit. Federal primers are more sensitive, but if factory Winchester cowboy loads went off with Winchester primers in them, they are not the problem.Nobody has mentioned cleaning primer pockets, but I separately decap and clean primer pockets. This avoids having a cake of primer residue in the bottom of the primer pocket preventing the anvil legs from seating correctly and cushioning the striker blow.

[MarkP]

IIRC The dent in the primer cup due to the firing pin strike should be at least 0.017". SAAMI primer strike drop test procedure.

[william l evans]

Outpost75 is correct. I ream all of my new brass primer pockets with my primer pocket reamer, and use this reamer to clean out the pocket between every loading. I use a lee auto prime or the primer on my press to bottom out the primer. I use only win primers that I buy by the case (5000) for all of my loading. I have never had a failure to fire. I shoot a lot of CASS too.

[dverna]

I have never cleaned a primer pocket on pistol brass and never will. Go with the Federal primers.

Don Verna

[44man]

Even Fed needs struck. All I ever used for IHMSA so how would you explain a loss in accuracy even though all fired? Spring change let me win Ohio state 79 out of 80. Shook on the last ram.
I have used all primers with CCI all the time back when and WW and Rem. Never a problem.
We have such good stuff today but you fool with the gun.

[rond]

Outpost75 is correct. I ream all of my new brass primer pockets with my primer pocket reamer, and use this reamer to clean out the pocket between every loading. I use a lee auto prime or the primer on my press to bottom out the primer. I use only win primers that I buy by the case (5000) for all of my loading. I have never had a failure to fire. I shoot a lot of CASS too.

I've loaded 1000s of rounds on progressive presses and have had no problems with the primer pockets.

[GONRA]

44man - GONRA sez to be sure to use CCI Miltary Primers in semiautos to avoid slamfires.

[Eddie17]

As stated above, seat primers fully! A little below flush.

[flyingrhino]

As several have stated, the primers need to be fully seated. I switched my 650 over from 45 to 9mm once but forgot to change the primer seating punch from large to small. I loaded several hundred rounds. Went shooting and had the same results you had. Some would go off first shot, others would take two strikes of the hammer to fire. This is after over 40 years of reloading experience. Got to checking things out and realized what I had done. Primers were seated flush because the large seating punch would not go in the primer pocket.

[Half Dog]

It seems that you have gotten great advise. I had the same issue and sent the rounds to Winchester to evaluate. The result was that I didn't seat the primers below being flush. I tried again, paying attention to the seating depths and still had failure to fires. Switched to Federal primers and the problem went away.

[johnson1942]

another question for the experts please. i found the box of ammunition i had 100 percent fireing on every round. it is blackhills 44/40 made in rapid city s.dak. does anyone know what kind of primers they use? i cant find any info on the internet. thanks every one for all the advice and federals will be in all my reloads from now on.

[Soundguy]

Seat the primers to the bottom of the primer pocket, if you are using a hand held primer seater you should develop a feel for when this happens. Primers should seat below flush in the case heads. Also try the Federal primers, they seem to be easier to set off with lighter firing pin strikes.


Agreed, if the primer is not seated, the firing pin seats it and uses up the energy needed to ignite it.

As for Winchester primers. I'd buy them only, if i could always find them. They are my staple primer.

[44man]

44man - GONRA sez to be sure to use CCI Miltary Primers in semiautos to avoid slamfires.
That is true. A floating pin can make them run full auto. Guys would bring the guns here with hand loads with the wrong primers. I just sprung the pins. After, a Fed primer worked.
I wish I could make clear that a primer change alone will fix it is wrong. Seat right and any of our primers should work.

[Soundguy]

I've been relaoding a long time. While I like winchester, I've used just about all including the cheaper wolf, tula, and S&B.

I've never had a failure of a primer to go off in a gun that had a working trigger / firing pin. That includes new semi auto, hammer and striker fired, including small guns, revolvers with transfer bars, or the old style 'nail' fixed firing pin, even the new style safety fixed firing pins on the SA revolvers that are only locked when cocked. Military bolt and semi auto rifles , floating firing pins or not.

Having a crudded up bolt that is packed with cosmo making ghe firing pin stick on the SKS is no excuse.

I am amazed of all the primer problems I hear about

[44man]

I am amazed of all the primer problems I hear about
They do not understand them is why.

[johnson1942]

im glad i posted the questions so novices like me can learn from all of you.

[odfairfaxsub]

Don't use cci in a revolver in which your dedicating a lighter spring. That's like being counter productive