Plow handle vs dbl action with arthritis

[222]

My wrist has arthritis and shooting my revolvers which are all dbl actions, the wrist can only handle about 1-2 cylinders of anything over 38 spec. in k frame and my 44 just sets at home (need to down load it and see). My question do single action (plow handle) alleviate any stress and be less painful to my wrist. I've toyed with idea of a 45/45acp or 357/9mm in a colt clone to shoot and carry when out and about. Or is the painful truth taking a toll, my 9mm auto can be shot easily a couple of boxes without instant pain apposed to the 357mag or 44mag. Not wanting a war just info, thanks. 222

[paul h]

I have no idea and it's possible it would be worse as the recoil would twist your wrist more than a DA which tends to come straight back into the palm of you hand.

While I detest muzzle brakes, I wouldn't hesitate to use one to lessen the recoil and allow you to keep using your 44. And if you're using wood grips, I'd recommend trying a Hogue or Packmeyer rubber grip.

I had a ruger bisley 45 convertible and it was a ***** cat with 45 acp's.

[shoot-n-lead]

Get a colt clone in 44 special...they are sweethearts.

For me, the single action army grip frame handles recoil better than any grip that I have...and I have them all...including Ruger and Colt Bisley's.

[Hickory]

Get a colt clone in 44 special

Where can a person find one of these?

[Blackwater]

Arthritis is a malicious thing! It'll change a man's mind about a lot of stuff. I have it, but thankfully, more on the mild side, except for my hips. How recoil is felt depends on just where the arthritis is in your hands. If bending the wrist upwards hurts, I think I'd go with the DA. If it doesn't, I'd go with the SA. I love my SA's! And they CAN and still ARE used for self defense, and very effectively. Not quite as fast as a DA for the 2nd shot, but that shot is often more accurate than many can achieve with a DA, so .... it's all in who's handling the gun.

And if you want good power with bearable recoil, the .45 Colt and .44 Specials can't be beaten. A friend of mine has shot a whole semi-truck load of deer and hogs (including some big ones) with the .45 LC and real black powder loads. He was shooting a 7.5" Colt with fixed sights. He's also shot end to end through a deer with a 4" .44 Special S&W with the Keith 250 gr. bullet and 7.5 gr. of Unique. Deer was going straight away from him, and he put the bullet between the hams, and it exited the chest after fully penetrating the whole thorax. Had he hit a ham or thigh or hip bone, it probably wouldn't have exited, but it'd definitely have put it down, and pronto, too.

A SA in either of those calibers (I like the new Ruger Flat Tops in either caliber) should do anything you'll ever ask of it. Extra power, like in the magnums, DOES help when shooting at long range (100 yds. or more) but the Special and LC will kill the biggest deer that ever walked this earth. It's all about bullet placement, and configuration. Always use a flat point (either SWC or RNFP) and you'll surprise a lot of folks who think it's "not sporting" to NOT use a magnum. And the lesson would do them some real good, too. FWIW?

[smkummer]

A plow handle single action "rolls" upon recoil. Its different then a double action handle. You simply need to try it before you buy. Light 44 special or 45 Colt is a treat with a plow handle but I don't yet have hand issues, and to me, 38 special out of a single action is just fun. For full power loads I prefer a double action handle. I have to ask if you have tried wadcutter mid range loads out of your Smith? They are very comfortable to me and I could shoot them all day long out of any of my Colts including alloy frame agents and cobras.

[telebasher]

Might I suggest a Flat Top Ruger in 44 SPL loaded with a Lee RNFP 200gr Boolit over 7-71/2 gr Unique or 8 1/2gr HS-6 for your shooting enjoyment.

[Multigunner]

Many years ago I saw a grip made to reduce the effects of heavy recoil of a single action in .44 magnum. The grip frame rode inside a hollow grip that allowed the frame to roll upwards while remaining more or less stationary. I think it had rubber buffers inside. Not sure how it was hinged or if a pivot pin was used.

Probably a one off prototype because I've never seen these advertised for sale.

[huntrick64]

Borrow someone's Bisley and see if it doesn't roll up a little better than the plow handle. It appears to me that the Bisley gives me less felt recoil than standard SAA grip. Some feel the other way about that.

[CHeatermk3]

Cimarron Arms makes a line of "Colt clones". Although I have not shot one yet, I've handled them and they appear to be well made and excellently fitted and finished. They are made in Texas.

[psweigle]

I would go with a rubber grip first, a lot cheaper than a New gun, and it may also allow you to shoot more.

[Thumbcocker]

6.5 of red dot with a Keith boolit can be very accurate, cheap, and easy on the hands in a .44 magnum.

[Ickisrulz]

Cimarron Arms makes a line of "Colt clones". Although I have not shot one yet, I've handled them and they appear to be well made and excellently fitted and finished. They are made in Texas.

Actually, they are imported from Italy. Uberti is the manufacturer.

[44man]

Plow handle should NOT slip in the hand. What it does is raise the hand and arms. Bisley and DA puts the force into your wrist and forearm. ROLL is entirely wrong.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Many years ago I saw a grip made to reduce the effects of heavy recoil of a single action in .44 magnum. The grip frame rode inside a hollow grip that allowed the frame to roll upwards while remaining more or less stationary. I think it had rubber buffers inside. Not sure how it was hinged or if a pivot pin was used.

Probably a one off prototype because I've never seen these advertised for sale.

It has got to stop somewhere, and for a given thrust, acceleration is inversely proportional to weight, but energy is proportional to the square of velocity. Hold a rifle an inch from your shoulder, and you will feel the difference between accelerating that light weight, and the much slower acceleration of the rifle plus part of your torso.

[ole 5 hole group]

Some people describe "roll" as the firearm coming up and "rolling " back to the right side. Not loosening your grip and "rolling".

I had a very stiff charge (more like proof tested;)) in a FA97 chamber in 45 Colt (4-3/4" barrel) using a 325 grain cast bullet. I normally lock my elbows when first testing heavy loads to just see how bad the recoil is - I didn't do that on this occasion and that little pipsqueak came up and "rolled" past my head, left ear and the barrel was pointing at a 45% angle over my shoulder behind me and it took half a nano second to accomplish it.

I had to pause for a brief second to think what had just happened and then looked at the chronograph - fired one more round with "locked" elbows just to ascertain if my chrony was working correctly. Yup, it was working correctly, fired the other 3 with locked elbows just to see if the FA 97 could take it - Called John at FA and congratulated him on a fine build and I've never used that load since.

[scattershot]

Since you already have larger bore handguns and can shoot them on a limited basis, why not a .22? You could shoot that all day with no ill effects, and use your big irons for serious purposes.

[44man]

Some people describe "roll" as the firearm coming up and "rolling " back to the right side. Not loosening your grip and "rolling".

I had a very stiff charge (more like proof tested;)) in a FA97 chamber in 45 Colt (4-3/4" barrel) using a 325 grain cast bullet. I normally lock my elbows when first testing heavy loads to just see how bad the recoil is - I didn't do that on this occasion and that little pipsqueak came up and "rolled" past my head, left ear and the barrel was pointing at a 45% angle over my shoulder behind me and it took half a nano second to accomplish it.

I had to pause for a brief second to think what had just happened and then looked at the chronograph - fired one more round with "locked" elbows just to ascertain if my chrony was working correctly. Yup, it was working correctly, fired the other 3 with locked elbows just to see if the FA 97 could take it - Called John at FA and congratulated him on a fine build and I've never used that load since.
ROLL was described as the grip slip in the hand to get the hammer closer to cock. That is what I call it. It was with BP loads and almost no recoil. Then Bisley wanted a better barrel alignment and a straighter push for target shooting. It worked but was never for the stuff we shoot today. Even if your arms go to the moon, your hand should be in the same position on the grip.

[lawdog941]

I would try some type of leather shooting gloves with wrist support. I currently use Blackhawk Tactical gloves, the support around the wrist extends my 454 shooting times and reduces felt recoil. FWIW

[W.R.Buchanan]

Why not just load your .44's down to a mid range or lighter load. I have Specials loaded with 6.0 gr of W231 and Keith boolits, and Magnums loaded with 8.0 gr of W231 and the same boolits.

The Specials run around 750-800 fps from either my Ruger BH Bisley or S&W696 and the Magnums run right at 1000 fps from my 5" SBH Bisley. Since most all of my shooting with these guns is at either paper or steel targets there is little need to go heavier.

I seldom shoot more than 6-12 Full Power Loads in my Revolvers, and usually the only reason I do that is to shoot up the last 10 rounds in the box of 50 after a 40 round Silhouette Rifle Match.

The best cure for pain relief is to not induce it in the first place.

If you reload and cast boolits there is no reason to not explore Mid Range Loads. They are a lot more fun than shooting something that hurts.

Also the Ruger Bisley grip is by far the most efficient grip for absorbing recoil out there. You'll notice that John Linebaugh builds all of his **** Kicker Guns on Ruger Bisley frames. www.customsixguns.com

Randy

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I guess you won't really know until you actually try, but it could be an expensive experiment. This past year I developed a swollen, sore middle joint of the middle finger, and just seemingly overnight couldn't shoot a double action or single action, either one, without banging the joint against the rear of the trigger guard. I have solved the problem on some of them by using oversized grips that move the joint away from contact, but with a sore wrist I'm not so sure that you're going to find relief by just swapping pistol types, because recoil is recoil. Unless you're just looking for a reason to buy a new pistol I'd try someone else's out first.

[Groo]

Plow handle should NOT slip in the hand. What it does is raise the hand and arms. Bisley and DA puts the force into your wrist and forearm. ROLL is entirely wrong.

Groo here
+1 44man The angle of the single will allow the wrist to drop.
This means that the bone of the wrist holds up the gun.
When you shoot , the wrist "Flexes" up [some refer to this as ROLE] and less force is put into the palm of the hand.
The doubleaction has a bump and the grip is at more of a right angle to the bore.
This causes the kick to come back into the palm of the hand jamming the wrist.
I would try a "plow handle" single action.

[shoot-n-lead]

Where can a person find one of these?


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/595151206

I have this gun in 4 3/4 barrel...FINE shooting revolver, my favorite.

[44man]

I really like the plow handle SBH Hunter model with Pach grips. The additional barrel weight dampens recoil very well. I also like 7-1/2" barrels for the little more weight.
My old IHMSA SBH is the 10-1/2" silver hornpipe but I hated the square trigger guard so a set of Pachs cured knuckle bang. I shoot my 330 gr with 21 gr of 296 and hardly notice recoil. It is nothing to run 100 shots. This gun has somewhere between 81,000 and 82,000 rounds through it. It has no end play or wear at all since STP has always been applied. It still groups the same. Just has some sandblasting on the cone edges but there is no effect from it. I did put an 11° cone in it.
My boolit has as close to an 11° ogive I could make it. 1-5/16" at 200 yards is nothing to sneeze at.

[Blackwater]

44man, you're right, as usual, but ... not everyone has the strength in forearm and hands to not let it slip at least a little. Those who CAN do as you do are doubly blessed. Hand position on any handgun and grip pressure DO make a difference in POI, and if we can't hit what we're aiming at, we've got a lot of work left to do to get to that point. The whole purpose of shooting at anything, whether target or game, is to not just hit it, but to hit it WHERE IT COUNTS. On game, this adds into the equation the knowledge of anatomy, and sort'a "X-ray eyes" so we can visualize where the vital organs are from any angle. On targets, it's the little "X" within the X-ring.

In "The Patriot" movie, Mel Gibson admonishes his sons to "aim small, miss small," and that's STILL very good advice in all shooting. If we practice without purpose, we wind up inevitably practicing bad habits, like not really "zeroing in" on a particular, small spot on the target or game. This, I think, along with simple attitudes that change over time in "we the people," are the factors in the poor showing in marksmanship of the so-called "average shooter" today. It's become PC to be "average," or at least to call ourselves average, and this denies us any real motivation to really excell at shooting and most everything else. Nobody seems to even strive for perfection any more. None of us will ever reach that vaunted pinnacle, but striving for it has to be a way of life, fostered by an attitude of "What one man can do, another can do," and we're all that "other man" who is seeking to learn, IF we'll just allow ourselves to aspire to something better than "passable."

Many practice without any real goal or purpose, and many do so just because they've "heard" that "practice makes perfect." It doesn't. Only PERFECT practice makes perfect, and if we don't practice with a goal of "perfection" as our goal, we'll NEVER get even anywhere close to being truly good shots. Nobody hits them all, not even ol' Jerry McCulik! So there's no dishonor in a miss now and then. But IMO, there IS dishonor in not even really trying - not even having a goal when we practice. We need to learn something from each and every individual shot we fire. To do that, we need to pay attention and notice what happens each time we pull the trigger. And that involves a real interest in what we're doing to accomplish. If we're really interested in becoming a good shot, we CAN learn to become that. If we're not even really interested, we'll just keep on shooting without real purpose or benefit, and that's a terrible waste of our time.

If we're not learning, we're not practicing well. Anyone who comes home from a range session and hasn't learned at least one little detail, or re-learned some old principles, hasn't really practiced at all. They've just spent rounds down range, and that teaches us nothing and benefits us not at all.

Add in arthritis, and we've REALLY got a challenge! But ..... what's life without a challenge to meet, a hurdle to overcome, or a task to complete? Arthritis is an evil thing, but it CAN be dealt with.

And BTW, if one gets it bad enough to not be able to shoot the heavier calibers any more, it may be some consolation to know that a well placed .22 LRHP ain't no slouch even in self defense! Many have used it, but as with most things shooting related, bullet placement is everything. But it CAN be done, and those with arthritis may actually be reduced to depending on it. A good .22 auto, like Ruger's Mk series, hold 10 rds, and I know of few bad guys who won't succumb to 10 well placed .22 LRHP's! Especially if a head shot is delivered. If one can simply hold the pistol, and make a good, quick trigger squeeze, one CAN make a head shot with a .22 out to as far as it's likely to be required. Practicing on a K-5 silhouette target can confirm this pretty quickly.

So arthritis doesn't HAVE to be the end of our shooting. I also have some neuropathy in my hands these days, and that's a real challenge to deal with too.

But ultimately, life and shooting are NOT about "problems," but about SOLUTIONS, and even the greatest problem has SOME sort of solution. It might not be the one we WANT, but it's surely a darn sight better than not shooting or being able to defend ourselves at all! Wise men would prefer a 12 ga. for SD, but we settle for something more easily carried and less effective when we carry ANY handgun, so ..... life's full of compromises, and as we get older, they seem to multiply.

But .... we ain't dead yet! And because of that, and the lessons life has taught us, we CAN do pretty darned good, still, even if we might not be quite what we once were! I find some significant satisfaction in that! Just use whatever works, and that might involve trying a number of guns. If you have friends with guns, ask to try theirs if you don't have something similar. And when you find what works, just go with it and "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" It doesn't have to be more than about 10 rds./day. Consistent practice makes for consistent results on target. And with arthritis, if it gets serious, a little practice is all many will be able to do, effectively. When it begins to hurt, it's time to pack up and come back later. Practicing in pain often means you're practicing mistakes, and ingraining them into your habits system, and that ain't good!

Those who have a place in the back yard to shoot are lucky. This helps tremendously! But most folks can get to some place where they can shoot without too much time or trouble or expense being involved. Barring that, just practice once a week or so.

[44man]

A lot of truth there. Long ago when I was into archery big time, it was said to go out and shoot one arrow a day before season. You get one shot at a deer mostly and it must count.
But the bow must be tuned to perfection and is what I did best with any broad head made. I figured out how to tune in minutes to hit exact to a field point with a perfect flight.
Same with my revolvers, accuracy first. Some shoot thousands of scuds and expect to shoot better. NOT! Trigger time is a waste if boolits go their own way. To miss is just you and not the gun. What you load and shoot is critical. 6" at 25 and then shoot at deer at 50 to 100. 24" at 100 and add in shakes. Sorry the cigar has the lit end in your mouth.
My point is if you can't make the gun accurate, you will NEVER get better.

[robertbank]

To the OP I would go with a 9MM pistol in steel. I would recommend the CZ line. CZ's have one of the most comfortable grips ever put on a pistol or revolver for that matter. CZ also sells and some of their guns come with rubber grips - I am thinking the 75 Series or the SP-01 Shadow would be about perfect for you. The latter is heavier by a few ounces which will tame the recoil somewhat for you.

You would get a pistol you can manage and one capable of dealing with most things you are likely to encounter up and including Black Bears if that is a concern. Lighter loads in the 9MM are still ample to deal with anyone walking on two feet as well. While the gun is more than adequate to deal with the latter two concerns which are least likely to occur, doing what you will most likely do and that is shoot paper, cans and an assortment of other targets of opportunity the guns are fun to shoot.

Hope this helps from one who is enjoying the same ageing process. It isn't for the faint of heart.

Take Care

Bob

[222]

I have rubber grips on my revolvers already, can shoot 38 target loads all day, but +p 38 and above pain begins to increase. Will load cowboy level 44s until I can find a plow handle to try. My 22s are seeing more use, but must have more power for open carry during hunting season here in Nebr. Thanks again for your thoughts. Having shoot 44 mag and 357mag for over 35 yrs both Rugers, Taurus and S&W I find myself dbl action happy and single action poor but until past couple of years no problem now not so.