From belted to beltless

[ohnomrbillk]

I'm working on a wildcat that would require brass that is only available as belted.

It would work much better as a beltless design.

Anyone here have success at removing belts?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is no trouble at all if you have a lathe. You need a home-made mandrel which fits the base and primer pocket, secured by a screw through the flash-hole. A Morse taper mandrel, sold with a soft front end for turning or drilling, will facilitate perfect alignment every time you come back to the job. The screw needs to be high tensile because of its small diameter, and you could turn a piece of rod long enough to protrude from the case-neck. But I think a socket screw and hexagonal wrench wouldn't be much extra trouble. I'd make the face of the screw slightly concave with a carbide burr, to facilitate getting the wrench into the socket.

You could do the same thing with a bench drill and files. But a hand-held drill is likely to vibrate, and make such work oval or star-shaped. An electric screwdriver is slow enough to conform to the tool, but the work will be very slow. I have had success with a well sharpened small-sized carpenter's rebate plane, removing a steady shaving of brass.

Another way, which I haven't tried, would be to drill a 13mm. hole in a piece of steel rod, say 3in. long and1in. in diameter, and bevel the outside to a sharp edge, like a sort of wad-punch. Then with an engineer's press or a large vice, just squeeze the case into the hole, shearing off the belt. A bullet swaging press would also do it, but I don't believe a reloading press would.

[EDG]

Removing belts on new brass is fall down dead easy.

Tap the case into a Wilson case holder used with the Wilson trimmer. These case holders are self locking on the external surface of the cartridge case. The OD of the case holder is 1".

Then put the case holder into a 1" 5C collet and turn the belt off.


181058

[Hardcast416taylor]

Just so we `backyard 100 yard hunters` up here in Michigan will know, what cal. and size case are you referring to and need?Robert

[paul h]

When I had my 350 Rigby I ended up making most of my brass starting with 375 H&H brass, turning off the belt, turning down the rim and making the extractor groove deeper. The Bertram 350 brass was way too soft so essentially useless for full power loads.

So with a small lathe it's a straight forward no big deal job that just takes time. That said, I've never found a belt a hindrance to accuracy. So I wouldn't go to the effort to remove the belt just for the sake of it.

[6.5x55]

A fellow in the yukon, has been fire forming .300 Win mag brass to 375 Ruger
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/938550-Tried-a-little-experiment-yesterday-More-Pics-Now/

pics begin at #56 of the thread

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Removing belts on new brass is fall down dead easy.

Tap the case into a Wilson case holder used with the Wilson trimmer. These case holders are self locking on the external surface of the cartridge case. The OD of the case holder is 1".

Then put the case holder into a 1" 5C collet and turn the belt off.


181058

Yes, that will work very well, but not every lathe owner has a collet chuck, or a headstock socket big enough for a Morse taper collet that size. If it is a cartridge for which you have a chamber reamer, you can cut a chamber in the sort of soft Morse taper mandrel I mentioned earlier. Then drill out the neck and shoulder. As long as the case makes contact only on its body, it should lock in place firmly enough for this mild turning job, in the way you describe for the Wilson device. It is still easier than the primer pocket and screw version.

If you don't have a lathe, deepening the groove may be more difficult than removing the belt. Also, although it will probably weaken the case a quite insignificant amount, that is another reason to want to avoid it. You should try it to see whether your action will digest cases with the rim still at its former diameter, i.e. semi-rimless. Some will, some won't.

[Bent Ramrod]

I was able to indicate in a full-length sizing die in a 4-jaw lathe chuck. Then, I just tapped in the belted case with a tap or two from a light plastic mallet until it was firmly gripped, turned off the belt with light cuts, and popped the case out again with a tap on a thin steel rod through the headstock.

Easy to see any wobble or runout in the case, if there is any. I didn't see any when I did the job.

[EDG]

If you have spent some time running a lathe your eyes will learn to see total runout down to .003 total indicated runout or TIR. This corresponds with the rotating work piece being off the axis of rotation only .0015.



I was able to indicate in a full-length sizing die in a 4-jaw lathe chuck. Then, I just tapped in the belted case with a tap or two from a light plastic mallet until it was firmly gripped, turned off the belt with light cuts, and popped the case out again with a tap on a thin steel rod through the headstock.

Easy to see any wobble or runout in the case, if there is any. I didn't see any when I did the job.

[EDG]

You can do many different things if you have any sort of lathe.
Another method would be to find a scrap barrel with the correct chamber.
1. Turn a steady rest bearing on the chamber reinforce concentric to the chamber.
2. Chuck the barrel with 4 or 5 inches hanging out of the chuck with the chamber end supported in a steady rest.
3. Drill the neck and shoulder of the chamber out so that the case slides into the old chamber and locks.
4. Face off the barrel if necessary
5. Tap cases into the old barrel until they lock in place
6. Turn the belt off

Or do as one of the other posters did chuck up a sizing die.




Yes, that will work very well, but not every lathe owner has a collet chuck, or a headstock socket big enough for a Morse taper collet that size. If it is a cartridge for which you have a chamber reamer, you can cut a chamber in the sort of soft Morse taper mandrel I mentioned earlier. Then drill out the neck and shoulder. As long as the case makes contact only on its body, it should lock in place firmly enough for this mild turning job, in the way you describe for the Wilson device. It is still easier than the primer pocket and screw version.

If you don't have a lathe, deepening the groove may be more difficult than removing the belt. Also, although it will probably weaken the case a quite insignificant amount, that is another reason to want to avoid it. You should try it to see whether your action will digest cases with the rim still at its former diameter, i.e. semi-rimless. Some will, some won't.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have an old magazine with an article in it about turning rimless cases into rimmed. The man who wrote it turned a slightly wider extraction groove in a '06 case, then turned a washer from brass and then pressed it into the grove on the case. After this he turned the rim down to what he wanted. He said it worked out well. I tried it when I had my lathe. I couldn't make it work for me.

[EDG]

You can do something like that by making the hole in the washer the size of the groove (smaller than the case head).
Then you use a tapered punch to expand the hole by stretching the washer into a small funnel shape. Slide the washer over the case.
Place the case and washer down on an hard plate and drive a hollow tube down on top of the washer. This will mash the funnel shaped washer back flat and into the
extractor groove. Once well flattened and tight the washer can be machined to precision dimensions if needed.


I have an old magazine with an article in it about turning rimless cases into rimmed. The man who wrote it turned a slightly wider extraction groove in a '06 case, then turned a washer from brass and then pressed it into the grove on the case. After this he turned the rim down to what he wanted. He said it worked out well. I tried it when I had my lathe. I couldn't make it work for me.