Recasting birdshot into slugs

[Bob in St. Louis]

So... I've been perusing Youtube, so I'm now an expert. Right? ;)
I'm actually a noob, but I thought this might be helpful to somebody.

Seems there's an underground full of fellas taking regular lead birdshot, removing the shot from the hull, melting/casting it back into slugs, and reinstalling the ordinance back into the hull.
Seems easy enough, right? And the best part, is you can have a box of slugs for, what, $5.50, instead of $30?


So I made myself a crude fixture to peel the crimp from the hull, thereby releasing the shot.
My first fixture was too crude and needed to be more precise as it tends to spiral the cut.


Since "pics or it didn't happen", here's what I've got.
I chose the 1 1/8 oz birdshot loads, as it turns out that some of the lead just magically "goes away" when recasting. There's not a 1:1 ratio when recasting. Using loads that are 1 1/8 and the final ordinance being one ounce, it seems you can earn about one slug per 16(ish) rounds. So it's almost "profitable", so to speak.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0019_zpsuc9gw68e.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/BobinStLouis/media/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0019_zpsuc9gw68e.jpg.html)



I bought a Lee one ounce slug mold ("mould"?) and a Lee 20 pound melting pot/crucible.
I'll pour the shot into the pot, let it melt, and pour that into the slug mold.
There's dozens of YouTube videos on this. I've probably seen them all by now.


Here's one of the videos that I found most inspiring.
:arrow: https://youtu.be/IBkMRhB6RqM

This was the first batch. As it turns out, I'm not happy with the results.
More on that later...

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0020_zpsp3iz8ig7.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/BobinStLouis/media/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0020_zpsp3iz8ig7.jpg.html)

I made a different 'cutter' that works much better. It doesn't remove the crimp, only the "bunghole".
It makes it harder to get the slug in, but provides a MUCH cleaner shell without all the hotglue mess.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0023_zpsp3rwxokn.jpg[/url]


49 recast slugs.
Things are about to get real. :twisted:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Weapons/Reloading/Re-cast%20slugs_zps3kvo9v18.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/BobinStLouis/media/Weapons/Reloading/Re-cast%20slugs_zps3kvo9v18.jpg.html)

The top row are the first batch. The ones I cut the end off, guillotine style. DO NOT DO IT THIS WAY
There were some FTF, fail to enter the battery, fail to "everything"..., basically.
The top row scared me bad enough I quit firing them.
Notice in particular the far left one. :-?
On a couple of those, after the trigger pull, there was a "whoosh BANG", instead of just the BANG.


The second row are the ones where the crimp is cored out.
These were fine. I will do this again. Accuracy seemed fine. I say that based on never having sighted in this gun.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0025_zps1r2yogrh.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/BobinStLouis/media/Weapons/Reloading/DSC_0025_zps1r2yogrh.jpg.html)

Well, that's all I've got so far. I hope this was helpful, as I certainly learned a bunch.

[Electric88]

Very, very interesting... I would be tempted to do this

[rancher1913]

was going to say that the glue would give you barrel obstructions and real problems but I guess you figured that out, good thing you quit when you did or you would have blown up your gun. it is much easier to just buy soft lead and cast from that than melting shot, you don't have all the mess of graphite and sometimes the shell on hard shot will not let the molten lead out.

[Bob in St. Louis]

So the shot has graphite in it? Is that the shell you're talking about?

[Tackleberry41]

The Lee is made to be used with a conventional fold crimp, so may be going a bit overboard cutting and roll crimping. Plus that extra bit of shell helps out with the jump from chamber to rifling.

I do the same thing, peel open cheap stuff, pour out the shot, recast it. I just use a thick punch to 'iron out' the crimp, so the slug will go in. Then recrimp. No they are not as fast as store bought or reloaded slugs, but they do the job.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Interesting, thank you.
I've been thinking about getting a roller crimper (the kind for a drill press).

[shaner]

Seems a lot simpler to just buy a 25 lb bag of shot to me?

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

[Bob in St. Louis]

You mean to melt into slugs, then pour into "off the shelf" shells ?

[rancher1913]

you need to watch your loads, if you change from a 1 and 1/4 oz shot to a 1 oz slug you may be running into over pressure with the powder load. at the very least you should stay the same as the donor load.

most shot has a coating of graphite to keep it from oxidizing.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ahhh, gotcha. Thank you.
I didn't know about the graphite. As many threads and posts as I've read on several different forums, this is the first I've heard of it.
Would fluxing remove the graphite?

Also, I'm going from a 1 1/8 oz load to a 1 oz load.
The regular shell was calling for 1200fps. I've fired 1600fps "off the shelf" rounds, with no problem.
I assume I'm still in the safe zone, given that I'm only 1/8th oz less and "only" 1200 fps to begin with??
Please tell me if I'm wrong.

[longbow]

No telling what powder the factory uses but I would guess on the fast side so they can use less and save a bit.

By using a lighter slug than the shot payload you will be fine as far as any over pressure as slugs generate less pressure than shot loads due to less bore friction.

If the powder is slow the somewhat lighter payload and less friction may result in under pressure loads and possibly bloopers. A good solid roll crimp should solve that or at least minimize it. Even a good fold crimp will help but by leaving the slug loose below the cut end of the hull there may not be enough initial resistance to get good consistent ignition. Shouldn't be a big issue but a good crimp will help with consistent ignition.

Yeah, you don't want a bunch of hot melt glue gumming up the bore.

Longbow

[cpileri]

Actually, as long as the slug is not grossly oversized, going from a heavier weight shot to a lighter weight slug decreases pressures; all other components being exactly equal.

[TonyfromItaly]

Good Morning, from pressure tests we have done, going from shot to slug, keeping the same weight, the pressure actually decreases by about 200 bars. Therefore if you go from 1 1/8 oz shot to 1 oz slug you have a big pressure decrease.

[Y-man]

Bob in St Louis: welcome to this!
This is my WHOLE forte, I have been doing this very thing for about 10 years now: simply because where I am based [Nigeria]; we do not have access to slugs, and firearms and components are EXTREMELY restricted. So I have been working on my own to see what I can achieve. Shot [Birdshot] was simply not doing it for me for penetration and range and knockdown power [Target shooting, occasional hunting, home/ self defence] so I began to work on casting slugs from the birdshot that is more commonly available/ permitted [To an extent] here.

I have a YouTube Channel [https://www.youtube.com/user/Yman83464/videos] where my journey is documented. In addition to that, I have been on this forum and have learnt [And reported] a lot of the progress I have been making over the years. Search for my stuff.

Its been quite a journey, and all the guys here have been so kind, wise and helpful. Listen to them!

Longbow and the others are ANGELS, as far as I know... Thank you guys.

What they have said about hot glue "gunking" up your barrel and action is very true. You are firing a gas-operated semi-auto, I believe? Barrel, gas ports etc: and Hot Glue residue: NOT good!

By all means: you should buy a Roll-Crimper. I fabricated one, used it for many years, before I then bought one on one of my many recent trips to the US.

Your upper row did that simply because there was no "hold-back before release" [My terms to describe the resistance created by the crimping, which "holds back" the projectile and wadding, compressing the powder so that it burns fully and evenly in a proper "explosive" manner: pushing the load out...] and what you were getting was basically "P.E" [Premature E _ _ _ _ _... Fill in the blanks, where most of the powder does not burn in the shell. "Fzzt!" instead of "BANG!!!"
Some of it burns OUTSIDE of the shell, and causes all the blackening you see there.
Of course you will have some Failure to Loads: the edges of the shell casings are not rounded.

Glad to see you have left off of this idea.

In my experimentation: like Longbow said: I have always worked towards keeping my replacement load same or lower than the original birdshot load. One of my most prized possessions is my micro scale.

Recently, I have had accuracy success out to 50 to 60 yards with the incomparable Lyman 525 slugs. Lovely things.
I am also about testing a solid copper slug, paper-patched INSIDE shotcup. I hope it works ok.

I am currently shooting out of a Mossberg 500A, with rifled barrel.

Best of luck!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Lead shot are a good alloy for many bullets, and the graphite coating should be dispelled by stirring. It will float on top to be skimmed off. The main purpose, I think, is to reduce any tendency for shot to fuse together on their way down the barrel.

The failures were indeed due to the absence of a crimp. The good news is that I can't imagine it being bad enough to leave a slug or wad as a bore obstruction, to produce a bulge or burst. The best way might be to pick open the star crimp with as little damage as possible, and press it back into shape afterwards. But you will do better, even with the star crimp, by using a drill press rotary device or perhaps even better, the hand-turned device clamping onto a table, known as a turnover. You see plenty on eBay, unfortunately most of them now pressed as antiques. The old-fashioned roll crimp would also be fine, but don't use a cart top wad, like people did with shot. That can slip around the nose of the slug and cause a slight bulge if you are unlucky, or some inaccuracy.

Shotgun slugs from the Lyman mould are often well under bore diameter, and probably a bit over shot-cup diameter. You might find them tending to crack with the shot alloy, or collapse with soft lead. People do report about as good results with round ball. This can fit the shot-cup or be a close fit to the bore with no cup. But it must be able to pass through the choke without impact.

[rancher1913]

I had forgotten about y-man. bob in st lewis you can learn a lot from him because he has been there and done that.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I had forgotten about Y-Man as well!
I have seen some of your videos, and many of your posts but forgot (no offence, please) about your craft!
Yes, you are indeed one of the experts with shot shell "experiments"!
You are correct, I have an auto loading smoothbore shotgun. Specifically, a Molot VEPR12.

After firing some of those in the top row (the glued ones) I was getting powder EVERYWHERE.
Down the barrel, in the magazine, and even down inside the 25 round drum. It has a clear cover and noticed there were several grains inside!
So yes, I will NEVER use glue on a shot shell again. Too messy and ineffective at holding the slug and wad in place. I also don't want glue residue inside the gas system!

Thanks to all for posting, I greatly appreciate your wisdom. I started this thread to help those "behind me" with what NOT to do, but also see if I could gain a bit more insight on how to do things better. Thank you all!

I believe my next round, I'll focus on the accuracy from these. My back yard isn't very long, but I should be able to get a good idea of how these will perform. I'll certainly post my results.

[longbow]

My first time out with Lee 1 oz. slugs resulted in 6" 50 yard groups so not too bad but not great. Next time I had added a cast on attached wad (hot melt glue) and accuracy improved to about 4" groups. Just to not that this glue was contained inside the shotcup so no exposure to hot gases or the bore. These days I am tumbling slugs with hot melt glue skirt sin talcum powder which makes them slick and ensures they do not stick to the wad at all though I can't say I had any problems anyway, just seems like a good idea.

I do at as well and usually better with round balls to 50 yards so didn't pursue the Lee slugs at that time though I will be giving them another go eventually.

Several people here (Hogtamer to mention one) have said they get better results with the Lee 7/8 oz. slug than the 1 oz. slugs so something to keep in mind. Lee moulds are inexpensive enough to have both. I will be getting a 7/8 oz. mould eventually as well.

And depending on your intentions and use don't forget about the lowly plain 'ol round ball. A 0.662" or 0.678" ball in a shotcup can be quite accurate to at least 50 yards and somewhat beyond. Round balls are easy to cast and easy to load so a bonus. For the most part I think the 0.678" is the best fit in many standard shotcups... assuming they don't have internal ribs but then the Lee slugs wouldn't fit those shotcups either.

Not sure if it has been mentioned or not but it will be a benefit to drop a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad or two into the shotcup before adding the slug. The nitro card wads will keep the bottom of the shotcup flat and not allow it to extrude into the hollow cavity which does happen with some shotcups. The card wads will also space the slug up a bit to provide better fit for crimping though with a roll crimper you can roll down to the slug for tight hold... fold crimp not so much. A good crimp as mentioned is a benefit.

I was going to say that some people use wax to hold the slug in place, though I have never tried that they claim it is effective but with a gas system you won't want wax in there either.

Looks like you are off to a good start so carry on it gets better from here!

Longbow

[Daniel964]

This is something I want to try someday also. I've also thought about using bb's that you use in bb guns to reload the shells. Then use the lead shot for casting pistol and rifle ammo. Would this work very well?

[Bulldogger]

There are a couple guys on YouTube who have made some videos of experimentation with making slugs out of shot. Their simplest version is to core out the crimp, as you did Bob, and then pour hot paraffin wax onto the shot in the wad without ever removing it. The resulting soft slug makes a mess, but passes on a lot of terminal momentum before it splatters. I wonder what it would do to a deer...

They did several tests for performance, with an eye towards using them for home defense. The idea is less penetration than a slug or rifle round, but well more than standard shot would, and it's cheap as you all note.

Here is one of their videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU
They also have one where they take an inexpensive Chinese .410 single shot shotgun and run .454 and other loads through it.

Bulldogger

[Bob in St. Louis]

This is something I want to try someday also. I've also thought about using bb's that you use in bb guns to reload the shells. Then use the lead shot for casting pistol and rifle ammo. Would this work very well?
I started a thread asking the same thing. DOES NOT seem like a good idea.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?315479-BB-s-for-shotshells-Feasible-financially

Longbow, that's a good idea. I've thought about roundball, but didn't want to spread myself too thin. I wanted to "ride" the Lee slug for a while and get a feel for it first. But yes indeed..... That is on my radar, as it the 7/8 ounce slug. I'm a slow learner, so I don't want to mix things up too much, you know?

Bulldogger, thank you Sir. I like that guys videos, but hadn't seen that one.