.45-70 Marlin/Henry question

[hp246]

In southern Michigan, we can use a .35 caliber or larger round in a straight wall cartridge with a maximum case length of 1.80 ". Talked to my local gunsmith. He said it is doable and due to low pressure won't create problems with chamber erosion. Was wondering about the Marlins and Henry's, if this would create problems with chambering? I know the Uberti 66/77 and Rossi 92 are a bit touchy about OAL. (I have a couple of each right now for CAS). Thoughts?

[buckshotshoey]

Im kind of surprised at that max cartridge length reg.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I suppose the idea is safety, with a careless shot departing into a far distance that isn't quite so far. Or maybe that the victim of an accidental shooting won't have quite so much tissue damage to put back together. Both are partly true at least.

If the question is intended to be about firing a shortened case in an ordinary .45-70 chamber, that advice is probably true. A moderate amount of shooting with loads quite adequate for deer won't do any harm, and you only need to fire a few shots in hunting and a few to see if accuracy or point of impact will be different from the same load in the standard case. They may be, a little, but probably not by much.

But are you sure the rule applies purely to the cartridge used? It might apply to the rifle, or you might be subjected to quite a bit of timewasting if you are found with a standard rifle that would fire the wrong kind.

I don't know about chambering problems with the rifles you mentioned, whether standard or short chambered. I've just experimentally chambered a couple of dummy .40-70 cartrdges experimentally in my .40-82 Winchester 86, with no difficulty or indication why difficulty might happen. If it does, I can think of two things which might cure the problem. One is to silver solder metal spacing pieces behind the case head in the carrier (which you can test with plastic and glue first), and the other is to use a longer nosed bullet than you normally would in a lever-action .45-70 - which is no bad thing really.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've not tried it in .45-70, but it seems the same as shooting .38 Special in .357 mag rifles which I do all the time in my Cimarron Arms 1873 Winchester. Lots of that happening in Cowboy Action Shooting.

[buckshotshoey]

I think Ohio got it right anyway. Michigan might follow when they look deeper into it. If you really look at the numbers, the trajectories and terminal ballistics of the 45-70 are not all that different then a .50 cal muzzleloader. Especially with the factory ammo limited to trapdoor pressures. After 200 yards, its dropping like a rock. Some of the shotgun slugs are in that range.

Example.... A Lightfield Commander IDS Plus Ammunition 12 Gauge 3-1/2" 1-3/8 oz Sabot.
Gauge/Bore: 12
Shell Length: 3-1/2"
Slug Type: Sabot Slug
Slug Weight: 1-3/8 oz
Muzzle Velocity: 1890 fps
Muzzle Energy: 4759 ft. lbs.

I would say the performance of this slug, at least when it comes to a safety issue, would be equivalent or beyond the 45-70 concerns. This slug is 601.5 grains, with a muzzle velocity of almost 1900fps. Thats a cannon! Maybe someone here can compare the trajectories of these two on their computer program.
I really dont know why I try to figure out what the politicians that make these decisions are thinking. Or what information they are using to arrive at a decision. Pretty much an effort in futility. Sorry if I got off topic.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

My 1895 Marlin .45-70 is not particularly sensitive to overall cartridge length, though I have not tried extra short on purpose. Empty cases do work through the action. A 1.8 case length could be loaded to the same length as the 2.1 case length with only a little fussing and the right bullet selection. Chamber should not be affected. close to 'Normal' 45-70 capabilities should be attained.

[Flinchrock]

Hornady gummi tip ammo already has shorter cases, might not have to trim as much...

[uncle dino]

Hp..I have shot over 100 so far. Trim cases back to 1.8 and use load data and o.a.l. for bullet used. I have not encountered any issues yet. They cycle fine through 1895..I do make sure I put a very good crimp on them. D

[chuckbuster]

Im kind of surprised at that max cartridge length reg.

Politicians at work. A 14" Contender with "Full Length" .45-70 ammo is legal. Or any other Straight case over .35 caliber for that matter.

[hp246]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like its worth trying out next year unless they change the regulation again. The southern half of the lower peninsula has alway been a bit different. Years ago, it was shotgun only. Thne they added muzzle loaders and straight wall pistol cartridges in handguns. This is new within the last year. The law looks like it was written with the reloader in mind as instead of mentioning specific cartridges, it mentions specific case case dimensions.

[buckshotshoey]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like its worth trying out next year unless they change the regulation again. The southern half of the lower peninsula has alway been a bit different. Years ago, it was shotgun only. Thne they added muzzle loaders and straight wall pistol cartridges in handguns. This is new within the last year. The law looks like it was written with the reloader in mind as instead of mentioning specific cartridges, it mentions specific case case dimensions.

Which brings a question to mind. Are they using the cartridge dimensions of the ammo you are carrying? Or are they going by the printed SAMMI specs? A shortened 45-70 may or may not be legal, depending on the lawyer. In Ohio, they specifically name the legal cartridges in the regs..... .375win, 45-70, .444marlin, etc. Sounds more like a manufactured grey area in the Mich regs.

[hp246]

Which brings a question to mind. Are they using the cartridge dimensions of the ammo you are carrying? Or are they going by the printed SAMMI specs? A shortened 45-70 may or may not be legal, depending on the lawyer. In Ohio, they specifically name the legal cartridges in the regs..... .375win, 45-70, .444marlin, etc. Sounds more like a manufactured grey area in the Mich regs. The specifically give dimensions. From the explanation I've been given and seen written online, they have opened up the opportunities to handloaders and wildcatters to do different things. Absolutley no mention of specific cartridges being approved or barred. I would even make an arguement that such a cut down case is no longer .45-70.

[Lead pot]

That sounds like a good candidate for the .45-60 Win. it is 1.89" long. Just trim it a little and carry a calipers with you :)

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

That sounds like a good candidate for the .45-60 Win. it is 1.89" long. Just trim it a little and carry a calipers with you :)

My thoughts exactly. If one is questioned, just cite the specs for the .454 Casual.

[Drm50]

I've had a Marlin 1895 for 40 some years. It will handle the shorter case no problem. I got a bunch of 1st fire brass one time, that a kid ruined trying to load cast bullets without expanding.
I cut them all off the same length, approach 1.75", loaded them up with cast 322gr HPs. Used
them for plinkers. Loaded them many times.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've had a Marlin 1895 for 40 some years. It will handle the shorter case no problem. I got a bunch of 1st fire brass one time, that a kid ruined trying to load cast bullets without expanding.
I cut them all off the same length, approach 1.75", loaded them up with cast 322gr HPs. Used
them for plinkers. Loaded them many times.

Ah, a definitive answer. Thanks you Drm50.

[hp246]

I've had a Marlin 1895 for 40 some years. It will handle the shorter case no problem. I got a bunch of 1st fire brass one time, that a kid ruined trying to load cast bullets without expanding.
I cut them all off the same length, approach 1.75", loaded them up with cast 322gr HPs. Used
them for plinkers. Loaded them many times.

Any thoughts on a hunting load? I have a hundred or so 300 gr Hornady JHPs left over from another experiment.