Sorting Brass Results

[NavyVet1959]

The local indoor range that I used to be able to buy brass from quit sorting it and just sells it by the pound these day. They said that it wasn't worth it anymore to hire someone just to sit there and sort brass all day.

I needed some 9mm brass and figured that was what most people probably shot anyway around there. Besides, I was curious what the percentage of the various calibers I might get after running through a few pounds of it. Plus, the weather was nice, so it was a good day to take the bike out for a ride. I picked up 20 lbs and they had it boxed up in two 10-lb boxes -- each of which fit perfectly in each side of my saddlebags.

One I got home, I washed, sorted, and dried them. Here's the result of one of the 10-lb boxes:



.45ACP
brass
62


.40SW
steel
10


.40SW
brass
171


9mm
steel
131


9mm
brass
480


.380
brass
112


.357 mag
brass
7


.38 special
brass
27


.38 special shortened
brass
2


9mm
aluminum
19


.22 LR
brass
109



.22 mag
brass
8



Plus a couple of loaded .22LR and 9mm rounds.

So, for $12.50, I ended up with 757 pieces of brass in calibers that I reload for (i.e. 9mm, .45ACP, .38 special, .357 mag, .40SW). Or $16.51 per 1000 pieces equivalent.

And a couple hours of my time cleaning, sorting, and counting... :(

Don't know if I'll do it again, but it was interesting to see what the percentages were for the various calibers.

I didn't factor in the gas to go over there -- probably 2 gallons. I figure I would have been out riding anyway and this just gave me an *excuse*. :)

Now I'm curious if that .380 brass can be reloaded to 9mm OAL and shot in one of my 9mm guns. Hmmm... :)

[corbinace]

Doesn't the 9mm head space on the case mouth? In reality, the extractor may hold on to it enough for plinking purposes, if it will stay on with the smaller head.

[NavyVet1959]

Doesn't the 9mm head space on the case mouth? In reality, the extractor may hold on to it enough for plinking purposes, if it will stay on with the smaller head.

I'm not too concerned with that since I already use .40SW brass in 10mm handguns loaded to 10mm OAL and pressure. Plus, Rowland relies on the extractor to hold .45ACP and .45 SUPER rounds in his .460 Rowland chamber on his converted M1911s and Glock 21s.

I'm thinking if the bullet is long enough, there might still be plenty of brass holding onto it even loaded longer than .380 normally would be loaded. Just resize the .380 brass with the 9x19 dies. Maybe good for shooting when you can't necessarily recover your brass.

Even 9x19 brass is a bit short to load some bullets to the SAAMI max OAL. For example, if you load the Lee 105gr SWC to 9x19 max OAL, you get this:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-358-105-swc-loaded-saami-max-oal-9mm-320w.jpg

As you can see from the following photo of just the bare bullets, there really isn't much of the bullet being held by the brass in this particular situation. Basically one band of the bullet is still in the brass.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-358-105-swc-hf-flat-black-320w.jpg

[corbinace]

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the follow up.

[NavyVet1959]

One of the interesting finds was a couple of 9x19 cartridges that I originally thought looked like steel, but they were non-magnetic. They are kind of like a dark oil rubbed bronze look, nearly black in color.

[RogerDat]

If I am willing to spend the time I can sort before I buy. Even with that over time I have a coffee can of 9mm from it being caught inside or on other brass. Same for the 40's the end up getting caught up inside the 45 acp or on the 223/5.56 brass. 357 mag or 45 colt is almost nonexistent. Did find a bunch of 44 mag once. That was nice surprise. One time I hit a batch that was the most reloaded 38 special known to man. I guess the reloader finally decided to just go shoot it and let the brass go. Swear the neck was worn to a knife edge and some you could almost shake the primers out. So how long does it take to wear the nickel off to the point the brass shows through?

[NavyVet1959]

If I am willing to spend the time I can sort before I buy. Even with that over time I have a coffee can of 9mm from it being caught inside or on other brass. Same for the 40's the end up getting caught up inside the 45 acp or on the 223/5.56 brass. 357 mag or 45 colt is almost nonexistent. Did find a bunch of 44 mag once. That was nice surprise. One time I hit a batch that was the most reloaded 38 special known to man. I guess the reloader finally decided to just go shoot it and let the brass go. Swear the neck was worn to a knife edge and some you could almost shake the primers out. So how long does it take to wear the nickel off to the point the brass shows through?

I encountered a quite a few where the 9mm was inside of the .40SW and that was inside of the .45ACP. If you could consistently do that, it would be an efficient method of shipping a lot of brass in one of the USPS flat rate boxes. :)

I guess the small amount of .22LR that I found is an indication that it still hasn't come back like it used to be 8 years ago. Back then, it wasn't uncommon to take a 500-round brick to the range and shoot it in one day.

[RogerDat]

I did see a couple or three 5 gallon buckets that looked to be mostly 22 LR but you are right NavyVet those are few and far between. I'm guessing those might have been some sort of classes, training event, or competition. In the general run of things I see maybe a handful every two or three pails. Heck I have more than that unfired left over from Y2K.

[CraigOK]

One of the interesting finds was a couple of 9x19 cartridges that I originally thought looked like steel, but they were non-magnetic. They are kind of like a dark oil rubbed bronze look, nearly black in color.
browning?

[Mytmousemalibu]

Brass that has been outside in the dirt in standing water will turn that really dark color. One of the ranges we shoot at has a lot of water drainage problems we end up always end up picking up a lot of left behind. The stuff that was in areas of water turn really dark, they look like dingy steel case before it rusts. Looks horrible but cleans up just bright & pretty like any other.

Also I tried to shoo of a feral cat at the old house, grabbing a piece of unknown primed brass just for the bang. Dropped it into my TP9 and click.....Nothing. Tried again, nothing. It was .380 I had grabbed. it drops into a 9mm chamber far enough the firing pin won't reach. As expected though, the case head is smaller than 9mm. I probably wouldn't try to 9mm'er the .380 brass. One is poor fit and the other is reduced case volume, even with seating way out. Not really worth the hassle in my case.

[NavyVet1959]

Brass that has been outside in the dirt in standing water will turn that really dark color. One of the ranges we shoot at has a lot of water drainage problems we end up always end up picking up a lot of left behind. The stuff that was in areas of water turn really dark, they look like dingy steel case before it rusts. Looks horrible but cleans up just bright & pretty like any other.

It's an inside range with concrete floors that they sweep up often, so I don't think it is that. It's not dingy looking though, just a dark, but shiny oil-rubbed bronze color.

[fatelk]

I've seen both Hornady and Browning brass like that; it's a blackened nickel plated brass. It's actually good brass. I found a whole bunch of Hornady .223 brass once. Usually don't find rifle brass as the scroungers get it all, but everyone must have thought it was just Russian steel cases.

[NavyVet1959]

I've seen both Hornady and Browning brass like that; it's a blackened nickel plated brass. It's actually good brass. I found a whole bunch of Hornady .223 brass once. Usually don't find rifle brass as the scroungers get it all, but everyone must have thought it was just Russian steel cases.

Yeah, it looks like nearly a blue steel. It's not magnetic and feels too heavy to be aluminum, so I put it with the rest of the brass cases.

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I processed the second 10-lb box this evening and this is what I got out of it (along with what I got out of the first 10-lb box).



CALIBER
MATERIAL
BOX #1
BOX #2
TOTAL



.45ACP
brass
62
68
130



.45ACP
steel

1
1



.40SW
steel
10
9
19



.40SW

brass
171
290
461



9mm
steel
131
180

311



9mm

brass
480
496

976



9mm

aluminum

19

10

29



.380
brass
112
89

201



.357 mag
brass
7
8

15



.38 special
brass
27
25

52



.38 special shortened
brass
2

2



.22 LR

brass
109
138

247



.22 mag
brass
8
7

15




The totals that are in bold in the rightmost column are calibers that I reload and are brass. I'm just going to assume that the rest of them are scrap for now.

That gives me 1634 pieces of usable brass for $25 or the equivalent of $15.30 per 1000.

Not a single piece of the other handgun calibers I reload -- 10mm, .357 SIG, .44 (special or mag), or .45LC...

I'm not sure what those 2 pieces that I listed as ".38 special shortened" are about. They seem to be about the same OAL as a piece of 9x19 brass. I wonder if someone was making 9mm Federal or .38 S&W out of .38 Special brass...

[Tackleberry41]

40S&W is a cut down 10mm case. Where a 380 is a completely different case from a 9mm.

And yea 9mm can nestle in a 40, and 40 in a 45. I learned not to tumble them together as they can be pretty hard to get apart if a little media gets in there, and also wont polish. Some is worse than others like a 40 deep inside a 45 colt.

I dont mind buying unsorted brass. I have a big bag of 9, 40, 45acp. I often end up with less than 50 where you cant make a box with a common case. I keep em separated, and eventually come up with enough to make 50. And theres a big bag of mixed for ea caliber, just the oddball stuff where theres only a couple. Can be used for plinking.

Guess depends on the range what you get. Guy I knew worked at an outdoor place. It was rare to find anything outside of 223, 9mm, 40, or 45acp. The good stuff was usually not left by shooters. When hunting season would start up you might find a box of 270, 30-30 etc where somebody made sure the scope was on for hunting season. But I have little use for a box of 20 of something, if its not something I already have.

[Eddie2002]

Surprised you didn't pick up any .32 or .25 pistol brass. When I brass rat at the range I'm always coming home with a couple of those two calibers.

[NavyVet1959]

Surprised you didn't pick up any .32 or .25 pistol brass. When I brass rat at the range I'm always coming home with a couple of those two calibers.

I was a bit surprised also... When I had previously bought *sorted* brass from that range, I had encountered both .32 and .25 brass stuck in some of the other calibers.

[dragon813gt]

I honestly thought this was a thread about sorting by head stamp. I could understand them not wanting to pay someone to sort them that way. I was not expecting they were different cartridges. Personally I would never buy that way. And I'd imagine the range could make enough off the sale of brass to buy a sorting machine.

[NavyVet1959]

I honestly thought this was a thread about sorting by head stamp. I could understand them not wanting to pay someone to sort them that way. I was not expecting they were different cartridges. Personally I would never buy that way. And I'd imagine the range could make enough off the sale of brass to buy a sorting machine.

There's no way I would sort by head stamp. That would just be way too painful on my old eyes. :) Besides, it's just handgun ammo, not benchrest shooting.

About halfway through the 2nd box, I noticed that I had something with slots in it that were the right size to let everything through except .45ACP. Basically toss a double handful onto it, shake it a bit, and then collect the .45ACP that would not fall through. If I decide to do this again, I'll probably create a couple of panels with different grid sizes for the other calibers. Even just filtering for .45, .40, and 9mm/.380 would take care of most of the sorting. A rare earth magnet is good for removing the steel cases and there were not that many aluminum ones, plus they tend to stand out somewhat.

[RogerDat]

Well, I processed the second 10-lb box this evening and this is what I got out of it (along with what I got out of the first 10-lb box)......


....The totals that are in bold in the rightmost column are calibers that I reload and are brass. I'm just going to assume that the rest of them are scrap for now.

That gives me 1634 pieces of usable brass for $25 or the equivalent of $15.30 per 1000.

Not a single piece of the other handgun calibers I reload -- 10mm, .357 SIG, .44 (special or mag), or .45LC...

I'm not sure what those 2 pieces that I listed as ".38 special shortened" are about. They seem to be about the same OAL as a piece of 9x19 brass. I wonder if someone was making 9mm Federal or .38 S&W out of .38 Special brass...

Well at least the stuff that is brass that you don't shoot will go toward offsetting your purchase price if you sell it to a scrap yard.

I found the only thing that worked for me was to sort before I buy. I can go through about one 5 gallon bucket of brass in an hour or a hour and a half at most.
BUT that is partly because I am sorting to pull out fewer calibers, if it isn't one I want I dump it in the bucket of scrap I'm not purchasing. So 38, 357, 44 mag, 45 colt, 223 or larger rifle go in one of 4 buckets in front of me everything else in my lap tray is just dumped into scrap on my side bucket. I used to pull out 45 ACP if I was seeing 1x fired and drop them in a coffee can for a friend that used my bench, he passed on so now it is just one of those 4 groups.

NavyVet is sorting everything and that would take much longer. As was the range when it sorted it I imagine. If the range was sorting it all by caliber then a brass sorter with angled rollers would probably pay for itself in short order. Not 100% sorted but certainly pretty close, and finding the 357 mixed in the bucket of 38 brass would not wreck anyone's day.

[dragon813gt]

I have the shell sorter set. Makes quick work of sorting a bucket. The 380 plate is a god send.

[Budzilla 19]

Went and got 3 1/2- 5 gallon buckets last trip to buy brass, took it all home, ended up with a lotttttt of 223/5.56, also some hunting rounds, can't tell ya how many of each as I didn't keep track. Sold some, traded some, got my money back(90%) anyway. Took about 4 1/2 hrs standing at the back of the dually bed to get it all done, then 2 whole days with the stainless pin tumbler. Got shiny brass now!! That Frankfort Arsenal tumbler is tough, no doubt!

Oh yeah, I going to own those shell sorting pans shortly!

[dtknowles]

One of the interesting finds was a couple of 9x19 cartridges that I originally thought looked like steel, but they were non-magnetic. They are kind of like a dark oil rubbed bronze look, nearly black in color.

Hornady sells ammo in black chrome/nickel plated brass cases.

[NavyVet1959]

Well at least the stuff that is brass that you don't shoot will go toward offsetting your purchase price if you sell it to a scrap yard.

I found the only thing that worked for me was to sort before I buy. I can go through about one 5 gallon bucket of brass in an hour or a hour and a half at most.
BUT that is partly because I am sorting to pull out fewer calibers, if it isn't one I want I dump it in the bucket of scrap I'm not purchasing. So 38, 357, 44 mag, 45 colt, 223 or larger rifle go in one of 4 buckets in front of me everything else in my lap tray is just dumped into scrap on my side bucket. I used to pull out 45 ACP if I was seeing 1x fired and drop them in a coffee can for a friend that used my bench, he passed on so now it is just one of those 4 groups.

NavyVet is sorting everything and that would take much longer. As was the range when it sorted it I imagine. If the range was sorting it all by caliber then a brass sorter with angled rollers would probably pay for itself in short order. Not 100% sorted but certainly pretty close, and finding the 357 mixed in the bucket of 38 brass would not wreck anyone's day.

Yeah, I was sorting everything since I was curious what the numbers would work out so I could decide whether it was worth doing it again. I had previously bought 1000 rounds each of .357, .40SW, 9mm, 10mm, .45ACP, and .44 mag from this range back when they sorted and sold by caliber. IIRC, they don't allow rifles except in pistol calibers, although I have seen someone shooting a shotgun there.

If I was doing this routinely, I would probably run a strong magnet through the cartridges initially and not even bother sorting or cleaning (much less actually *counting*) them.

I suspect that the calibers that you find in a random sampling of brass like this says something about the clientele of the range or maybe the range itself. You would probably need a larger sample size to make any generalizations though.

[NavyVet1959]

I have the shell sorter set. Makes quick work of sorting a bucket. The 380 plate is a god send.

Is the .380 plate a different width or a shorter length in each slot?

From looking at the specs on the .380 cartridge, it seems like it would be so close to 9mm that it would be difficult to filter from 9mm.

[dragon813gt]

380 plate is made out of metal and the slots are narrower in width. They make it out of metal to control the slot size. It works really well.

[Texas by God]

I used to sometimes shoot .380s in my Astra 400. Originally 9mm Largo, Isoldered in a bushing to make it fire 9mm Luger surplus ammo reliably. With the worn recoil spring reinstalled it would fire .380s just fine if you only loaded 5 in the mag. The fired cases had a bulge because the 9mm has a larger case head but not a big deal. It actually had minute of close range squirrel accuracy. Sort of a .22 short/.22 LR comparison. I gave that pistol to my nephew for Graduation. It is still the most accurate 9mm I've ever fired- especially loaded with .357" bullets. Best, Thomas.

[jmorris]

40S&W is a cut down 10mm case. Where a 380 is a completely different case from a 9mm.

No and yes. 10mm uses large primers and the dimensionally similar except for length and 40 S&W uses small primers.

The 380 is shorter and smaller in diameter than 9mm, enough so they use different shell plates.

This is the contraption I built to sort mixed brass, it will sort a 5 gallon bucket in 15 min.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs

[Texas by God]

No and yes. 10mm uses large primers and the dimensionally similar except for length and 40 S&W uses small primers.

The 380 is shorter and smaller in diameter than 9mm, enough so they use different shell plates.

This is the contraption I built to sort mixed brass, it will sort a 5 gallon bucket in 15 min.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs

That is neat, jmorris.........can I borrow it? LOL

[jmorris]

Maybe, where are you at?

I had it loaned out to a friend that owns The Shooters Source, for sorting brass he sold. Kind of nice because I didn't have to pick up, sort or tumble, just call him up and tell him what I needed and he would drop off a 5 gallon buck full ready to load.

[RogerDat]

I take it that some brass such as 45 colt or ACP and 38 or 357 mag will sort into same bin. Or through same slots in those sets of 3 sifter trays. Then a further sort on length has to be done manually?

At one time when I checked 9mm and 40 S&W sold here for less than or only slightly more than one could buy them as scrap metal. Was one of the reasons I would not bother to sort them out. Because if I was going to meet or beat the scrap yard price there was no money to be made pulling those two calibers out when one considered the time and materials for shipping and having cash tied up in way too common brass. So only what I would use would I purchase. Now if one could bulk sort that brass with a mechanical separator that might change the equation. Did always sort of feel wrong to be tossing back good 1x brass, but since that choice left more money for brass I would use...

I have been thinking about a treadmill down in the basement, strong variable speed electric motor and lord knows I won't use it for anything else.... Hmmm.

[NavyVet1959]

Of course, one of the problems of doing this on a routine basis would be that you might collect enough of some particular caliber of brass that you would be tempted to buy a gun in that caliber so that you can reload for it. :)

[RogerDat]

Of course, one of the problems of doing this on a routine basis would be that you might collect enough of some particular caliber of brass that you would be tempted to buy a gun in that caliber so that you can reload for it. :)

Hush yourself up! I just heard a coffee can of 40 S&W that has nothing to do at my house make pitiful little mewing sounds of neglect as I read your post.
You're trying to start trouble aren't you! :kidding:

[NavyVet1959]

Hush yourself up! I just heard a coffee can of 40 S&W that has nothing to do at my house make pitiful little mewing sounds of neglect as I read your post.
You're trying to start trouble aren't you! :kidding:

You don't have a 10mm? I use the .40SW brass for 10mm loads. I don't shoot the .40SW guns that much ever since I bought the 10mm ones.

[RogerDat]

You don't have a 10mm? I use the .40SW brass for 10mm loads. I don't shoot the .40SW guns that much ever since I bought the 10mm ones. If the almighty had wanted me to shoot auto loading pistols he wouldn't have made so many nice wheel guns. Notice I said auto loading rather than bottom feeding brass flingers. I'm on my best behavior this time of year. Don't want Santa to bring me a lump of coal or a piece of Tupperware :mrgreen:

Just kidding but I really have less interest in auto pistols other than the 1911 style.
Grew up watching G-man, army, cowboy and frontier movies. None of my childhood hero's carried a Glock [smilie=1: James Arness or Fess Parker never had one of those as I recall. And of course we all knew the handle pointed down and the hammer pointed up too. Have to re-watch the Magnificent Seven and see if anyone held their six-gun sideways.

[dragon813gt]

Yes, each tray will separate cartridges of the same width. It makes it really easy. The 38/357 hang up on the rim w/ the 40 brass. 223 is easy to pick out from the 9mm. I like them because I don't miss cases anymore. It was inevitable that I would miss cases when hand sorting. I routinely bring back half s five gallon bucket from the range so hand sorting is no fun.

[NavyVet1959]

If the almighty had wanted me to shoot auto loading pistols he wouldn't have made so many nice wheel guns. Notice I said auto loading rather than bottom feeding brass flingers. I'm on my best behavior this time of year. Don't want Santa to bring me a lump of coal or a piece of Tupperware :mrgreen:

Just kidding but I really have less interest in auto pistols other than the 1911 style.
Grew up watching G-man, army, cowboy and frontier movies. None of my childhood hero's carried a Glock [smilie=1: James Arness or Fess Parker never had one of those as I recall. And of course we all knew the handle pointed down and the hammer pointed up too. Have to re-watch the Magnificent Seven and see if anyone held their six-gun sideways.

Well, I suspect you'll find about as many .44-40 and .41 mag pieces of brass as I found 10mm pieces of brass in this lot... :)

[dtknowles]

Hush yourself up! I just heard a coffee can of 40 S&W that has nothing to do at my house make pitiful little mewing sounds of neglect as I read your post.
You're trying to start trouble aren't you! :kidding:

I have a couple bags or 40 that almost went to the scrap yard to keep them from causing trouble.

Tim

[JAbee]

My range will only allow you to keep brass for calibers you are reloading. So sticking to my raising, I only collect the calibers I load (380, 40, 45 Colt). At the range all unwanted brass is swept and put into 5 gal buckets. My 1st trip I spent a hour just looking through one bucket and only came up with a hand full of 40 S&W. I ordered the "Shell Sorter" from midway with the 380 insert and went back next week. In only 1hr tops I had sorted 5 5 gal buckets. This little invention works wonders and saved a ton of time.

[NavyVet1959]

I have a couple bags or 40 that almost went to the scrap yard to keep them from causing trouble.


Yeah, I know the feeling... I need to do something with those .380 pieces before they start trying to cause some trouble.

[dtknowles]

Yeah, I know the feeling... I need to do something with those .380 pieces before they start trying to cause some trouble.

They really start acting up if you have the dies too. I have dies, brass, powder, primers and bullets for .270. The brass started up and I taught them a lesson, I took the nickel plated brass and removed the .270 from the headstamp and ran them thru my 30-06 dies. Now I have a couple boxes of nickel plated 30-06 ammo and the rest of the brass is nervous. Still no .270 in the safe.

Tim

[blikseme300]

Of course, one of the problems of doing this on a routine basis would be that you might collect enough of some particular caliber of brass that you would be tempted to buy a gun in that caliber so that you can reload for it. :)

Exactly what happened to me. I never planned to own pistols in 40S&W or 38Super but I collected so much brass for both calibers that I now have pistols to use the free brass I got from an indoor range. So much for being free, they cost me more than anticipated.

[NavyVet1959]

Exactly what happened to me. I never planned to own pistols in 40S&W or 38Super but I collected so much brass for both calibers that I now have pistols to use the free brass I got from an indoor range. So much for being free, they cost me more than anticipated.

Yeah, you end up with 1000 pieces of brass that is worth maybe $50, so you figure you just *have to* get a gun so it is not "wasted". That $50 of brass ends up costing you a few hundred dollars... :)

[dragon813gt]

I would definitely have to buy one in 38 Super if I had access to free brass. I guess I can use the 40 S&W brass in my 10mm. But I just load it up for my Uncle's Glock. Even if I had a 55 gallon drum of 40 brass I would not buy a gun for it. I would most likely end up buying swaging equipment to make bullets out of it. That's more useful :beer:

[NavyVet1959]

I would definitely have to buy one in 38 Super if I had access to free brass. I guess I can use the 40 S&W brass in my 10mm. But I just load it up for my Uncle's Glock. Even if I had a 55 gallon drum of 40 brass I would not buy a gun for it. I would most likely end up buying swaging equipment to make bullets out of it. That's more useful :beer:

When the .40SW brass is loaded to 10mm OAL and pressure, I've heard it called a ".40SWL" (.40 S&W Long). Some people were converting .40SW handguns to this when the there were no 10mm versions sold by the manufacturers. I seem to remember that the Para P16.40 was a prime candidate for this conversion since it was based on a M1911 and as such was already using mags that were long enough to hold the 1.275" .45ACP and as such the 1.250" 10mm rounds. All it took was reaming a bit longer leade and a new recoil spring.