Crimp issues with 460 Rowland.

[Tackleberry41]

Bullets are backing out of the case under recoil. Im running them in a Blackhawk conversion cyl. Using a Lee FCD, being taper crimp theres only so far you can go. Some 45 super I use in the same gun, same 200gr XTP, no issues with the super. More crimp?

[slughammer]

No experience with the 460 Rowland in particular, just some general advice. Make sure your expander is .002 under the bullet diameter (.0025 being better than .0015).

Also watch out with the FCD for over crimping, you can essentially be smashing the bullet down and loosing case tension.

[cainttype]

I supect slughammer is spot on.
A taper crimp should do no more than remove the mouth bell here enough to facilitate easy chambering. Excessive taper crimp will swage the projectile down and allows the casing to spring back, reducing case tension and allowing the projectile to slip easier.
Minimal crimp with the proper sized expander (easy on expanding the mouth, another tension aid) should go a long way towards curing your issue. "More crimp" will likely increase the problem.

[Tackleberry41]

Well I messed with it today. Only expander is one that came with the die, so I didnt use an expander at all, minimal crimp, and they are still working there way out of the case.

[Blackwater]

One of the reasons for the roll crimp, is to keep heavy bullets in guns with significant recoil from sliding out the front of the case in recoil. Taper crimps should be pressed gently but firmly into the sides of the bullet. This is to keep it from being driven BACK deeper into the case during feeding. I'm not much of a fan of taper crimps when used in revolvers. Too easy for what you're doing to happen. If you didn't expand the case mouths before seating, how did you get them in the case without shaving lead off the sides of the bullets? The Lee universal case neck expander only bells out the case mouths. That might be something to try. NOt sure it'll work, but all I can think of right now.

[Tackleberry41]

Im not running cast in it as of yet. Tried without a crimp, shouldn't need one if theres no expanding done. They still work their way out, not as much. But 3 shots and the 3 left are longer when measured. May just not work in a revolver, not like I can roll crimp them.

[CHeatermk3]

The reason for using a taper crimp is to properly headspace rounds in the chamber of an auto pistol that is designed to headspace on the case mouth.

In a wheel gun you want a roll crimp.

[35remington]

This is why "460 Rowland in a revolver" is an oxymoron. A 460 Rowland is an autoloading pistol cartridge. You're finding out the hard way why more powerful rimless cases are unsuited for revolvers....a proper crimp of the roll variety is needed. Too bad you don't have a rim.

[Tackleberry41]

I was just messing around with the gun. 45 super works, not like I had to buy any dies, just a bag of brass. The 45 auto rim works in it, but hardly rated for even super pressure much less rowland. I can easily get Rowland performance out of the 45 colt, its a convertible blackhawk. But requires a bit more powder and muzzle blast to do it. I went with min rowland data, 12.2 of power pistol is 1425fps with a 200gr XTP. I have a nice NOE mold I can use, 250grFN/230grHP.

You can make a high pressure 45 auto rim. Ruined a 454 casull trying it. Cut it back to ACP length, ran it thru a die. I was thinking maybe wall thickness that far down would be an issue, but chambered fine. A bit more solid grip on the bullet now, can be roll crimped. 180712

[Tackleberry41]

The cut down 454 does work. I made up a handfull, dropped the data a little, the case capacity is likely to be different. 12gr of power pistol, which is .2 under min data. That gave a 50FPS boost over 12.2gr PP in the Rowland case. But still well within the pressure limits, the cut down cases fall out of the cylinder.

12.0gr power pistol, 200gr XTP, OAL 2.60", 200gr XTP, cut down 454 brass. Gave 1463-1479FPS, Avg 1472, ES 16.28.

But recoil still is pulling bullets forward. Not near as much, fired 3, unfired ones had moved .005-.01. Could probably lathe a 45 colt crimp die down to work with the shorter case, or buy a RCBS roll crimp die for the ACP, can always use it with the autorim I feed my 1917 S&W.

[Blackwater]

There are only two things that can retain the bullet and prevent its pulling out in recoil: case neck tension, and crimp (roll variety). If you're not getting enough case neck tension, the shank of the expander part of your die needs to be turned or polished to a smaller diameter. Then expand the minimum necessary to just seat a bullet as cast, into the case mouth just below the mouth, and seat. Then crimp in a separate step. This prevents any bulging out of the sides of the case during crimping, which can allow what you're experiencing. And crimp needs to be commensurate with the recoil level of your load. Mort recoil needs more crimp, usually. This isn't rocket science, but it IS pretty exacting if you want great results. And I have all good faith you'll git-r-done shortly. These are the things that teach us explicitly how critical some aspects of our loading can really be. I learned the same way your are. It's just a matter of thinking, and reasoning it out, and making it work. But then, just about everything in life is like that. Always has been, I believe. Welcome to reloading out of the ordinary circles! Ain't it fun? Or at least "interesting?"

[Tackleberry41]

No need to mess with an expander, not been using one. Just a hint to get the bullet to start easier. It really needs bullets with a crimping groove, only available with ones made for revolvers. And another issue is the velocity, 45 ACP bullets just aint made to be driven that fast. I dont have alot of faith a 200gr xtp made to open at 850 FPS, will stay together to well at 1400fps. A FMJ might work, but again, not gonna find em with a crimping groove. Or in the wrong place. I have some 225gr FTX, but seat way to deep to reach the crimp groove. Cast wont work with the 454 case due to the thickness of the brass. I have seen a tool to cut a canalure in a bullet, considered it for use with 357 sig. Some 200-230gr FMJ cut a canalure where I need it to be. Or just mess with 45 super/460 Rowland data to find a spot where recoil wont yank the bullets loose.