Need Help

[7 MM]

The other half has OK'd a new weapon!!Ta-Ta
I have 7 , 8 MM and 30-06.
good together as 06 brass can be made into the others.
Looking at 308 as have 1000 rds milsurp brass.
Friend says no, get a 223 and use M16 brass after it has been worked up.
Have checked the balistics on 223 and 22 rimfire , not much difference.
Have numerous 22 rimfires.
Want to use CB in whatever I get.

Any sugestions or ideas on which is best

regards ,
7 MM

[Razor]

.308 vs .223 ?? :confused:
.308 !!!:drinks:

best ?? = .303 Brit :mrgreen:

Just my .02

Razor
:castmine:

[bruce drake]

223 at 2400fps
22 rimfire at 1800fps

40-70gr for 223 (twist dependent)
30-40gr for 22 rimfire

1-200 yard effective range 223
25-50 yard effectiv range 22 rimfire

You might check your ballistics again. These are what I get when I shoot cast lead through my AR15. There is an even bigger difference when you use the Jacketed bullets.

Now for cast bullets, considering the availability of molds and ease of casting, I'd select the 308 since you have the brass already.

Bruce

[7 MM]

Bruce Drake,
I have carried the M16 in a place called Vietnam and watched friends die as the bullets they fired bounced off the cong!!
I have nothing against the weapon except its lack of umph.
The 223 with a cast boolit is not as good as your M16 with jacketed bullets.
Nugh said on my part.

I wish you well where you are and a safe return to civilization.
I will lite a candle each day and say your name.

An old Man,
7MM

[Scrounger]

Yep, the 5.56 was so outclassed by the 7.62X39 that it shamed the commies into quiting using the .30 and develop a .22 caliber round of their own to make things more equal.

[corvette8n]

Those evil black rifles are also garbage disposals, took my son and son-in-law to the range for about an hour and now I have 500 cases to reload. This doesn't count the 100 rounds of .30-30 and 30 rounds of 45-70 we went through.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I haven't cast for the 223, but there are a lot of dead roos and foxes out there that I grassed who dropped like a stone with a well placed 55Gn Speer SP bulk buy bullet. Way in front of the 22RF. Not such a big gap with cast I suppose. With the old Vietnam era 70Gn bullet and fast twist it won't be much chop though, as our vets foound out. I couldn't wrk it out when the rifle and round came into use. The figures don't stack up. My 220 Swift with a 1 in 12 barrel wouldn't stabilise 70Gn bullets no matter how fast they were driven (63s were the limit, and they were goodddddddddd!)

If it is going to be cast and it has to be an ex mil rifle and you have a 7mm, 8mm and a 30/06, I'd say that a 308 would not be enough of a difference to bother with.

A 7.62x39 would give you a useful plaything/small medium game hunting round. Maybe a 303 rechambered for the 7.62x 39, they are real popular here. Cheap to feed and should be a good cast boolit round without worrying about the feeding/gas system blues.

The Swiss rifles are also good, close in performance to the calibres you already have, but interesting and accurate.

Good luck.

[garandsrus]

I would vote for a Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55.

John

[MtGun44]

1800 fps 22 rimfire?? I guess if you mean 22 magnum; .22LR is 1100-1200 fps
for all except the special hivel like the Stinger.

.223 "bounced off the cong" - I hope you are just joking here. No way a 3200fps
bullet is going to bounce off of meat. Maybe you mean "inadequate stopping
power" - which can certainly be an interesting discussion. Nam era 55 gr bullets
were marginally stabilized by slow twist rifling and were intended to tumble. If
they hit only an arm or other thin area, they apparently did not tumble, and
the result was a minimal damage wound. Dr. Fackler has covered this in extensive
reports on the 5.56 NATO wounding effect. Tumble came after about 4" or so
penetration. Current ammo is 62 gr, more stable but will tumble on thicker
parts, still minimal wound on a arm hit without bone impact as bullet does not
tumble until maybe 5" depth - again reported by Fackler - Army's chief wound ballistic expert.

Bill

[bruce drake]

7mm,

Current 5.56 will drop a Haji very easily. Current 62gr Steel Core makes a very ugly exit wound. Aim center mass and he drops like a rock.

Two tours over here and several road ambushes and never had a failure to drop one with one or two shots. Of course, 7.62 takes a couple of hits to drop them as well when you consider we have to use FMJ and not Hollowpoints. One shot - instant kills are pretty much the realm of our 50 calibers or headshots with the lesser calibers. Even with one or two bullets through their chest region they are still begging for allah when we roll up to render them some aid. THe fight is pretty much out of their sails after two center punches.

Now, I have advised that you purchase a 308 simply because of the amount of brass and molds available. Effectiveness with the J-words really doesn't cover the forum's intent.

223 cast works nice once the load is developed. I've got a 55gr BATOR that smokes rabbits very nicely. Its all in what you want to shoot with the rifle and cast bullets. Varmints and pests at the low velocity that cast requires is about what you'll get from the 223. If you want to shoot a variety of targets with multiple bullet weights, go with the 308.

[13Echo]

Good grief man you shoot cast bullets and don't have a 45-70?!?! Get yourself a Trapdoor Springfield and have a real blast.

As for the .223 bouncing off, well my experience mirrors Bruce's. The autopsies I've done on wounds with the 'Nam era bullets show a lot of tissue damage with the bullet tumbling and fragmenting. Really make a mess with center mass hit. One victim was hit in the spine which took out a silver dollar sized piece of bone with fragment of bone and bullet exiting the front of the chest. I've not seen wounds with the newer bullets but I would expect a cleaner wound like the 7.62 with less tendancy to tumble. Wounds from the AK47 have a bigger entrance hole than the .223 but also have less tendancy to tumble. With any rifle, especially using a fmj bullet, placement is the most important consideration. A man in combat with the adrenalin flowing can absorb a lot of injury before he is incompacitated unless hit in a vital area or rendered immobile.

Jerry Liles

[7 MM]

Scrounger,
I was a river rat, thats ok no one else ever heard of us either!!
I have been in the midle of the river and fired back with a M16 (of my era and the rounds would splash in the water while we took extreme cross fire from both banks that did reach us!! As for your remark about the Cong throwing away their AK47 in favor of the M16 maybe it was a matter of logistics, The American solder had 1000 rounds of ammo and the Cong had 30 !!
In the era that I carried an M16 it was ( and I havn't seen anything to change my mind ) a lousey weapon.

As I said before I lost friends because the lousey rifle jammed or simply refused to operate,and it wasn't due to lack of cleaning.

Maybe if you read some of the original data on the weapon you would understand, or even better read some of the original posts in casy boolits

Bruce Drake I honer you and the uniform you wear, and as I said in my last post ,
i will lite a candle and speak your name.


7 MM