Euro .22 shorts

[hardware]

So, I remember a few years ago, Bad Water Bill told me about a thread discussing the differences between the .22RF ammunition we use, and the European equivalent rounds.

About the time I moved out, he gave me one of his two Astra Cub pistols, I didn't really think to actually get some of the proper ammo for it. I'd like to fix that, since American .22 shorts do not cycle the action with any reliability at all.

That is to say, I'd like some recommendations on what to feed it.

[WebMonkey]

There are shorts and then there are high speed shorts.
Look for those to cycle autos.
Good luck, i'm down to 2 100 round boxes.
:)

[Multigunner]

You might try a softer recoil spring.

With the .22 RF you are using a rifle cartridge intended for long barrels in a very short pistol barrel. The velocity range when used in a rifle may be very different than when the same cartridge is used in a rifle.
How fast the powder burns is more important than how much powder the case contains.

Most CCI .22 ammunition was loaded with a very fast powder because short barrel trapper rifles are very common in Canada.
One review of their .22 Stinger stated that all velocity was obtained in the first 16 inches of bullet travel. I haven't tried their .22 Shorts, or even seen them in stores, but if they use this same fast burning powder perhaps they will cycle your pistol.

[hardware]

Thank you both for the help, and sorry for the radio silence. Things are a bit hectic here.

Multigunner: Do you have any recommendations on where I could find such a spring? I struck out trying to find one myself, but I'm not always the best with adjusting my wording for an effective google search. Bill's actually far better than I at that.

[Multigunner]

I don't know where you'd find a spring for that particular handgun, but you could take some measurements and try to match it to commonly available springs.
Its likely the same spring size is used in many autoloaders of that general type.

If a replacement spring is available you could experiment with removing a coil or two. I wouldn't alter the spring you already have.

Also if the pistol has not been fired all that much it could operate better if the rails and moving parts were treated with gunslick. This stuff is a black grease with a polishing agent . You apply sparingly then work the action a few times then carefully clean to remove any trace of the gunslick, The difference is remarkable. A gritty balky action becomes smooth as silk.

I've found it takes several cleanings to completely remove all residue.

[desi23]

I have two Astra Cubs, both in 22 short and have never had any issues feeding them a diet of High Speed 22 short ammo. Remington, Federal or Winchester makes no difference as long as it's the High Speed stuff. I have tried standard velocity and neither will cycle reliably with it, simply isn't loaded hot enough. Most European 22 short ammo I have encountered was standard velocity, intended for target shooting. I have tried some of it in my Cubs and they will not run reliably on it, the target guns it is intended for are specially tuned for ammo of that type. I have occasionally gotten boxes of the faster European 22 shorts as well as the Mexican Aquila ammo and it works fine but as long as the domestic ammo works and is available I haven't had any need to specifically hunt for it. I'm curious as to why yours won't work with American ammo, what loadings have you been trying?

PS: Thinking on it I have owned at least 8 Cubs since I got my first one back in the 70's. Most were in 22 short and I really can't recall any issues with functioning so long as I stuck with High Speed with the exception of one that turned out to have a bad magazine. Worked fine with the mag out of another gun and a new mag fixed it for good.

[hardware]

And that's the rub, desi, I've only ever used what rounds my dad picked up, and they were not high speed. Thank you for further clarifying, and I'll pass this on to bad water bill, as well.

[Bad Water Bill]

Thanks for all of your help for me and my "PUNK KID".

i purchased the first Astra in 1959 and the second about 1964.They were a good gun when rowing down Wisconsin rivers searching for really big muskies and pike.

I can not find a dealer that will ship to a private party living in Illinois.

Just turned over the search to a friend with great connections so should have a brick showing up at my home shortly.

Then let the fun begin,

[SierraHunter]

I believe the augula (spelling) 22 shorts are a bit hotter. I also believe that offer a heavy bullet option, which may work much like how the heavy bullets work on subsonic 300blackout ARs.

[Traffer]

Do they show the velocity on those 22 short high speed ammo boxes? I am curious because aside from the speed of burn of the powder, a 22 short should be able to be loaded to near the same velocity as 22lr's with modern powder. I have been reloading 22lr now for about a year and find that depending on the powder, you can get good velocity with less than 2 grains of powder. Where a long rifle will hold nearly 4.4 grains of powder. I don't know the exact capacity of the 22 short case but it can't be much less than 2 grains. It would take a lot of work for you but you could reload trimmed down 22lr to the size of 22 short and reload them yourself. Or at least I could. If it were not such a dang hassle to ship ammo I could load them and send them to you. It is also a long slow process for me to reload them but I could.

I have two Astra Cubs, both in 22 short and have never had any issues feeding them a diet of High Speed 22 short ammo. Remington, Federal or Winchester makes no difference as long as it's the High Speed stuff. I have tried standard velocity and neither will cycle reliably with it, simply isn't loaded hot enough. Most European 22 short ammo I have encountered was standard velocity, intended for target shooting. I have tried some of it in my Cubs and they will not run reliably on it, the target guns it is intended for are specially tuned for ammo of that type. I have occasionally gotten boxes of the faster European 22 shorts as well as the Mexican Aquila ammo and it works fine but as long as the domestic ammo works and is available I haven't had any need to specifically hunt for it. I'm curious as to why yours won't work with American ammo, what loadings have you been trying?

PS: Thinking on it I have owned at least 8 Cubs since I got my first one back in the 70's. Most were in 22 short and I really can't recall any issues with functioning so long as I stuck with High Speed with the exception of one that turned out to have a bad magazine. Worked fine with the mag out of another gun and a new mag fixed it for good.

[Traffer]

I just looked it up:
A 22 short is listed at just below 90 ft lbs of energy with around a 29 grain bullet, where a standard velocity 22 lr (40 grain) is listed at a little over 100 ft lbs of energy for standard velocity.
Here is more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Short
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle
It seems that the energy of the high velocity 22 short is very nearly the same as the standard velocity 22lr. I suspect that the shorts could be loaded quite a bit hotter yet.

[17nut]

"only" European 22 short i could find in production is RWS and they state 300m/s~984fps from a 650mm~25.6" barrel with a 29gr bullet.

No Lapua, Eley or SK.