Unusual Ideal mould

[Alchemist]

Here's one you don't see too often. Floodgate gave me some info a while back...but I don't recall the specifics.

ETA: Lyman Ideal # is 311276


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/typemetal/101_0006.jpg


This boolit is fairly tapered, plain base, with only one lube groove. Cast from linotype, it throws a 155 gr boolit.

Any ideas on applications for this boolit. Thinking about using it in .30-06. Any load ideas? It's not in any manual I have. Someone (I don't recall who) on chat suggested Red Dot at 8 gr to start.

Cheers
Alchemist

[Bret4207]

Looks like a good candidate for a 30 cal with a a worn throat. Seat it way out and tickle it with a little bit of powder. Thats an old one.

[theperfessor]

I wonder if that would work in a Swiss 7.5x55? That case has a short neck.

[Bret4207]

I would think it would depend on the taper co-operating with the neck. I've never used a tapered design but would think it would make getting everything straight a pain.

[leftiye]

Wouldn't be too hard to straighten out that center section maybe?

[Yance]

1958 Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets describes it as "An early German design Schutzen bullet (refer to 311257), nose diameter .302, front band diameter .317, base band diameter.308.

Since it's designed for Schutzen, the large diameter front band seals the bore from escaping gases and the smaller diameter base band would just seat in the case mouth or be breach seated.

A partially neck sized and expanded case might hold the bullet to allow it to be seated hard into the throat/leade of a modern chamber in a bolt rifle.

[Alchemist]

1958 Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets describes it as "An early German design Schutzen bullet (refer to 311257), nose diameter .302, front band diameter .317, base band diameter.308.

Since it's designed for Schutzen, the large diameter front band seals the bore from escaping gases and the smaller diameter base band would just seat in the case mouth or be breach seated.

A partially neck sized and expanded case might hold the bullet to allow it to be seated hard into the throat/leade of a modern chamber in a bolt rifle.

So you wouldn't want to size this guy? Just lube and partially seat it in a slightly flared case, and let the throat seat it the rest of the way?

[Yance]

That'd be my "best guess" since Most Schutzen cartridges are designed for the bullet to be breech seated then the charged case, sealed with an over powder card chambered behind them or the bullet seated a very short depth into the case.

Try a dummy round with the bullet seated to just cover the lube groove and see if it'll chamber. If you "stick" the bullet at least you won't dump powder down in you action.

I'd cast it from WW/Lino 90/10 and try 18.0-19.0 gr SR 4759 or IMR 4198.

Keep us posted.

[Bret4207]

So you wouldn't want to size this guy? Just lube and partially seat it in a slightly flared case, and let the throat seat it the rest of the way?

Thats what I would try. If you have access to any of the older Shuetzen articles or Ned Roberts books or Lucian Careys "HM Pine" stories you'd get the idea. I wouldn't size it. I'd try it as cast and use Lee Mule Snot or hand lube.

[45 2.1]

Any ideas on applications for this boolit.
Target shooting.

Thinking about using it in .30-06. Any load ideas?
Cast it soft, about 8 BHN and lube it with GPW, White Lightening or Frog Snot. Try 5 gr. of WW231 or 7 gr. of Unique.

[floodgate]

IIRC, we decided this was originally made for a German Schuetzen rifle in 8.15 x 46R; probably fitted to the throat, with the first band hand-seated into the mouth of the case.

Fg

[Alchemist]

I decided to try an experiment with this boolit. I took a fired case and ever so slightly flared the mouth. Then I barely started a boolit in the case, and started it into the rifle chamber. It took a little extra effort to close the bolt, and when I opened the bolt to extract the dummy round, all I got back was the case. I had to take a dowel and drive the boolit out of the throat.

I tried this with one of the linotype boolits, as I haven't had a chance to cast any soft(er) ones.

If don't think I'll pursue this boolit any further, as it looks like it just wasn't designed for what I want. If you guys have any additional thoughts, Id like to hear from you.

TIA

Alchemist

[2Tite]

Floodgate's right on the money. It's a Lyman version of a "stop ring bullet". The base fit neatly into the cartridge mouth. The larger "ring" fills the throat and allows an attempt at breech seating in rifles such as the Martini. Mechanical breech seaters are difficult to design for many of the European single shots. Most had large and lengthy throats and this type bullet was designed to allow the bullet to be seated in the throat with the closing of the action. Sort of an attempt to breech seat a bullet but have the convienence of fixed ammunition.