I screwed up this time

[wyofool]

I had my chrony set up and doing some load testing. Did the LCP, the 1911, then on to the Springfield XDM40. I hand loaded 5 each of 5.1 grains of Titegroup under Barnes 165gr HP and Hornady 155gr XTP. The Barnes were fired and logged but the first Hornady went POP. Darn that wasn't right, I pulled the slide back and ejected the very sooty brass but then let the slide go and the next round went soundly into the stuck bullet. That sure was stupid! I dropped the mag and eject the round onto the ground, picked it up and sat it on the table with the mag. I popped out the stuck bullet and was trying to figure out how I had messed that up. Oh, well I'll figure it out later. I put the unfired round back in the mag and proceeded on with my test. That round made a tremendous bang! (1549 fps on the chrony) Oh, s**t I just had a double load! That brass ejected of into the bushes and the next round jammed because of the primer being stuck in the works. That's it I said and quit for the day.
This all happened on Friday, today I tried to figure out what caused this to happen. I put 10.2 grains of Titegroup in a .40sw case and it nearly filled it up, I think I would have noticed that much powder in the case before setting the bullet on top of it to seat.
Would I even have a gun or hand left if I put 10.2 grains of Titegroup in a .40?
Is it possible that when the round attempted to go into battery the bullet was pushed back into the case far enough to cause the high pressure?
The pressure was high enough to knock the primer out and split the case so that only half of it came out. The rest of the case is still stuck very tightly in the chamber.
All in all I feel pretty lucky to only have some brass stuck in the chamber considering what could have happened.
Thought I would let the group know that you can never be too careful in this hobby.
And if anyone can tell me how to get the rest of the case out of the chamber it would be appreciated.

[Frank V]

Wow glad you weren't hurt, & thanks for telling on yourself. Makes us all remember to pay attention & be careful.

[PositiveCaster]

Sounds like the OP's powder measure may have bridged off and only a partial charge went into the "pop" cartridge. Then the next cartridge got a normal charge plus what was left from the "popper".



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[B. Lumpkin]

Sounds like the OP's powder measure may have bridged off and only a partial charge went into the "pop" cartridge. Then the next cartridge got a normal charge plus what was left from the "popper".



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That is what I was thinking. Definitely a loading boo boo.

[wyofool]

Sounds like the OP's powder measure may have bridged off and only a partial charge went into the "pop" cartridge. Then the next cartridge got a normal charge plus what was left from the "popper".
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I guess this is possible, I was weighing each load on my scale the dumping it through a funnel into the Lee die on my Lee 1000 progressive press. I was doing one cartridge at a time but I guess some powder could have stuck (static ? maybe) in the plastic funnel.

[Cherokee]

IMO, Titegroup is very unlikely to bridge in the measure; given the OP's process of dumping the charges individually (see above), I suggest the bullet was pushed back and compressed a sensitive powder and increased pressures greatly. You should have put that round in you pocket or elsewhere so you would not load it. Glad you are OK...stuff happens.

[Blackwater]

It could have been a case of powder bridging in the measure, that created this scenario, and to have BOTH things happen as they did, this would be my first guess. The pushing back of the bullet in feeding due to insufficient neck tension could cause the overpressure load, but doesn't explain the first, squib load.

This is one reason I ALWAYS change out the nozzle on the end of my powder measures for the one with the .30 cal. hole in it vs. the .22 cal. hole - MUCH less chance of ANY powder bridging! I also do my loads in lots of 50 in plastic (usually) trays, specifically so I can visually inspect EVERY case for any variation in powder level. If you can SEE a difference in the powder level, high or low, in any of the cases, it lets you dump it and recharge that case.

I once blew up a Super Blackhawk, and since then, I've become VERY particular about my proceedures, and virtually obsessive about checking ALL loads for look-alike powder levels BEFORE corking them with a bullet. Many today are too casual, IMO, about their proceedures, and often take it for granted that one proceedure is as good as another. But they're not. And the biggest safety factor we can get, I think, is to check each and every case for powder level, and redumping any that stand out from the rest, either high or low.

Glad you and nobody else was hurt. It's awfully humbling when we realize we ARE capable of error, but hopefully, "Once burnt, a lesson learnt?" I believe it was a case of powder bridging, most likely, because of the dual ctg. phenomena. Any powder CAN bridge, especially if the humidity is high and static comes into play. Some, I think, attach a small copper wire to their measure and run it down to the bare floor somewhere, to eliminate static. I haven't, but probably should. So far, my obsessive visual inspection of each charge (very easy with pistols - it takes a flashlight with bottleneck rifles) has sufficed though.

Events like these CAN be a great motivator to reassess our proceedures. Blowing up a Super Blackhawk surely was for me!!!

[wyofool]

IMO, Titegroup is very unlikely to bridge in the measure; given the OP's process of dumping the charges individually (see above), I suggest the bullet was pushed back and compressed a sensitive powder and increased pressures greatly. You should have put that round in you pocket or elsewhere so you would not load it. Glad you are OK...stuff happens.
That is what I thought also, right after it went BANG! Let this be the lesson.

[wyofool]

For my other problem, the stuck brass, I'll start a thread in the gunsmithing section.
Problem solved with suggestion from a member using a slug. Similar to slugging the barrel from the muzzle.

[Hick]

That's part of the reason I don;t use a progressive set-up. I like to put powder in 50 cases in the loading block and then look down into those cases with a flashlight-- they'd better all look like they have the same amount of powder, or I won't seat bullets.

[daniel lawecki]

Glad you weren't hurt I use a powder cop die with my press.

[runfiverun]

I think you set back the second bullet.
titegroup does not like that, as you found out.

[OS OK]

This is a good riddle to try and armchair after the fact.

My first consideration is with the 'squib-acting' round. I'm thinking that the primer alone got that XTP lodged about 1/2 into the lands and grooves...why?
Because it would have to be right there to interfere with the second round trying to go into battery. If it got partially down the barrel it couldn't have interfered with the nose of the second round.

When the second round tried to go into battery and ran into the base of the first round...it pushed the XTP back just far enough to widen out whatever taper crimp that was there and allowed it to slip back a tad. Prolly not enough to be noticeable at a glance since the shooter was primarily concerned with the stuck XTP and clearing the gun/barrel.
He got focused on that.

Now the pistol is cleared, the second round was re-inserted into the magazine and magazine was re-inserted into the pistol.
The second XTP was further pushed back into the case on its second attempt to go into battery through the nose coming into contact with the feed ramp when the slide got behind it and brought it up and out of the magazine...now it's pushed back far enough to cause the higher pressure that produced that incredible velocity. How far that is, is beyond my comprehension.

The second round had it's normal load of powder just as the loader claims. The pressure problem was the result of the reduced case volume.

I can't see the TiteGroup as having bridged in any way...that powder has an average size of 1mm in diameter...this is one of my favorites for throwing very accurately in any of my measures. It's just too small to have bridged.
There is a picture of it and scale on this page from the National Center for Forensic Science...

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=82

Now the question to me is this...*Why was the first load a 'squib'? Our shooter is adamant that the cases were loaded without err...
but, something caused a squib.

OK...that's my take on this, somebody else throw in some details I'm overlooking.

charlie

[Dusty Bannister]

Prime a case, seat a bullet without powder and see if that will discharge and shove the bullet far enough into the throat. Then look at the case and see if it is "smoked" Squib loads would be expected to have unburned debris in the action, but that was not mentioned. I might believe a missed charge before a bridged charge.

[runfiverun]

I know a 40 will pop a boolit out onto the throat with just the primer. [done it on purpose]
most all of the pistol rounds will.

[45-70 Chevroner]

After the pop, you came up with a case with no bullet in the case, your next step should have been to check the barrel for the bullet. a pop will never be enough to push a slug all the way through the barrel. You were very lucky. Keep on checking procedures.

[OS OK]

I've seen primers alone from a 3" barrel .45 ACP push a 250 grain molly coated lead cast RN sized at .452" a full 15 yards to the target...hit low on the wood retainer wall below the target and bounce back 3 yards....not only have I seen this once but three times on the same day.

An inexperienced, non seasoned loader shooting his rounds he made from his brand new Lee Turret with the slide type auto powder dispenser. (?)
He was loading Unique and it was bridging in the dispenser before it was dropping into the metering slide. From the light popping sound it sounded like primer power alone but I can't be sure that absolutely no grains of powder got into the case to aid things a bit.

That afternoon I took him to my shop and helped him disassemble approximately 350 other rounds he prepared the same day. Being RN lead cast we had to use the inertia hammer and we were paying close attention to the amount of powder in each case...looking for 'pure squibs', no powder in case. We found another 5 more empty cases and many that looked like partial powder drops and assumed then it was bridging.

When he went back home he found what he thought was causing the bridging. He explained to me what he did but I can't envision what he was talking about because I've never used that type of Lee dispenser so I haven't a clue of what's in the dispenser above the metering hole.

After that learning curve Tom never had any more squibs...it scarred his pants off and he took it serious and modified his equipment and his methodologies.

[Blackwater]

You know, on further reflection, I think OS OK probably has the most likely scenario. FWIW, when I blew up a Super Blackhawk, you couldn't have convinced me the error was mine. But it WAS! I'm just glad my 'smith and some friends helped me finally figure out what I'd done. Your case is a little more "iffy" than mine was, but OS OK and Run5 have, I think, settled on the most likely cause. It's good to know what caused it so we can make SURE that never happens again. And FWIW, I've found that the best of all possible ways I've found to prevent this is to simply visually inspect ALL cases you charge, to ensure there IS powder in there, and also to confirm that the powder level in each case is uniform. One "accident" is all it takes to confirm that we CAN make mistakes, and to reaffirm with great finality our proceedures DO matter when reloading. Too many newbies, once they make their first successful loads, start to take it as "easy as falling off a log," and therein can lie the seeds for potentially costly mistakes, even to loss of life, either one's own life, or those standing in the next lane. And none of us EVER wants that, but it takes eternal vigilance to prevent it, and even then, we're still human. Constant vigilance and dealing with our fallibility is necessary to reload safely and consistently. Always.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I've seen primers alone from a 3" barrel .45 ACP push a 250 grain molly coated lead cast RN sized at .452" a full 15 yards to the target...hit low on the wood retainer wall below the target and bounce back 3 yards....not only have I seen this once but three times on the same day.

An inexperienced, non seasoned loader shooting his rounds he made from his brand new Lee Turret with the slide type auto powder dispenser. (?)
He was loading Unique and it was bridging in the dispenser before it was dropping into the metering slide. From the light popping sound it sounded like primer power alone but I can't be sure that absolutely no grains of powder got into the case to aid things a bit.

That afternoon I took him to my shop and helped him disassemble approximately 350 other rounds he prepared the same day. Being RN lead cast we had to use the inertia hammer and we were paying close attention to the amount of powder in each case...looking for 'pure squibs', no powder in case. We found another 5 more empty cases and many that looked like partial powder drops and assumed then it was bridging.

When he went back home he found what he thought was causing the bridging. He explained to me what he did but I can't envision what he was talking about because I've never used that type of Lee dispenser so I haven't a clue of what's in the dispenser above the metering hole.

After that learning curve Tom never had any more squibs...it scarred his pants off and he took it serious and modified his equipment and his methodologies.
I personally have never had a bullet exit the barrel with a primer only and I have had a number of them but how ever he should have checked the barrel for an obstruction. When in doubt do the right thing, it could have been a disaster. Not trying to start an argument here but safety comes first.

[OS OK]

Squibs are the thing that you only have read about or got into an armchair quarterbacking over until it happens to you. At the point that a squib happens to someone who has never experienced one they are preoccupied by the shooting interruption and malfunction, it doesn't occur to them to look into the barrel...squibs happen to the other guy, to someone in a magazine article or at the range one day when you weren't there...They are so uncommon that you have to pre-program yourself for a reaction to one...you are distracted by the mechanical problem. You need to always look down the bore when the pistol goes 'pop' but because of the lack of going into battery distraction for some reason we don't think immediately..."Squib!"
But...once you have survived one, you will be an expert on the proper reaction. It's kinda like running up on a big Rattlesnake and escaping without getting bit...you will never allow yourself to be so casual about snakes in the woods or anywhere ever again. You will always be on guard after that.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think you set back the second bullet.
titegroup does not like that, as you found out.

/\ My thoughts exactly.

And as others have pointed out, the time to check the bore was after the "pop" and BEFORE another round is loaded in the chamber.

[LuckyDog]

Thanks for confessing. I've learned another thing to watch for.

Thank you

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[45-70 Chevroner]

Squibs are the thing that you only have read about or got into an armchair quarterbacking over until it happens to you. At the point that a squib happens to someone who has never experienced one they are preoccupied by the shooting interruption and malfunction, it doesn't occur to them to look into the barrel...squibs happen to the other guy, to someone in a magazine article or at the range one day when you weren't there...They are so uncommon that you have to pre-program yourself for a reaction to one...you are distracted by the mechanical problem. You need to always look down the bore when the pistol goes 'pop' but because of the lack of going into battery distraction for some reason we don't think immediately..."Squib!"
But...once you have survived one, you will be an expert on the proper reaction. It's kinda like running up on a big Rattlesnake and escaping without getting bit...you will never allow yourself to be so casual about snakes in the woods or anywhere ever again. You will always be on guard after that.

Touché. Although the first time it happened to me my first thought was to check out the gun before proceeding. I guess my advantage was that I had been around guns long before I started reloading.

[44man]

We had one squib after the other working starting loads in 2 .454's with 296. The SR primer drove both the boolit and powder into the barrel. The base of the powder plug was barely discolored. All squibs stopped at max loads. I carry a brass rod in my shooting bag for when someone else does it.
We solved all of it by cutting down .460 brass and using a LP mag primer but it showed the power of a primer. The SR had a lot of pressure but ran out of fire.
Only experience prevented firing another behind the stuck boolits. You MUST check the bore when something sounds wrong.
Another guy had no powder in one and shot behind the bullet, ruined his BH .41.
There are few powders I trust in a measure. I weigh each that might bridge and use a block.

[Spector]

I load on a Lee Classic cast. I had a catastrophic case failure a few years back that destroyed the frame of my Glock 21. The barrel and slide survived apparently unhurt and the case ruptured right in the unsupported area of the chamber.

I measured each of these loads by hand on a balance beam scale because I had switched powder type. When I tore the remaining cartridges down all the powder charges were the same.

I load my brass way too many times, but this one that blew was only loaded 3 times. I still believe it was just a defective piece of brass. I visually inspected all cases before they were loaded.

I believe from now on I will put all cases in a loading block and visually inspect powder levels in those as well. I suppose it is possible that a boolit was pushed back into the case upon chambering.

I just know I never want to experience that kind of explosion loosed in my hands again.

You do not forget an incident like I experienced with blood coming from my face and and checking sooted fingers after the pain subsides a little to make sure all fingers are still there.

I always thought loading powder in a block and visually checking powder levels took too long, but I think this thread has convinced me it is worth the time and effort.

For that matter I could still dispense powder through my Lee Pro-disc and just set the loaded cases back into the block to compare levels before placing boolits in the cases.

I have already started plunk testing each loaded round since I started powder coating.

Mike

I carry the brass rod as well and at the range had to remove several bullets from a fellow's Ruger revolver a few years ago. And his were factory loaded cartridges with powder missing from several rounds..

[44man]

There is another thing to watch for. A primer can move out a loose boolit/bullet into the rifling before ignition. Now you have a bore plug if the powder ignites.
This was a major concern with the .454 and if the powder would have lit, we could destroy the guns.
You might have broken case tension and the bullet moved out. So you have two things, deep seating or a large air space with a bore plug. There is no way on earth to tell.
A bullet moved is called an SEE event.