LYman 4 cav 38 wad cutter molds

[HeavyMetal]

Anybody have problems with oversize boolits from the Lyman wadcutter molds?

I'm currently on my 4th or 5th 38 wadcutter mold and they all cast way oversize to the tune of .366 diameter!

I'm useing ww and a little tin as an alloy, as a matter of fact the mold is a 35863 which is the double ended wadcutter that weighs 148 grains. Boolits cast tonight weigh 152 grains so I know it's not tin making the boolits oversized!

I cleaned the mold before I started casting and know for a fact no lead or other foreign material is stuck to the blocks. So it's not accidental "beagling".

I'm working this mold out of a Lyman 20 lb dipper pot and I'm not holding the ladle to the sprue hole so it isn't pressure filling causing the problem!

Sadly this is a great looking mold! But for some reason, and it doesn't matter if it's a single cav, 2 banger or this four banger, they all cast way oversize!

I'm just wondering if this is common for the older Lyman molds, this one like the others was purchased used, or if they had a run that we're just oversized?

The next questions is can I mill this thing down to bring it into spec?

After looking at it I don't think it can be done, the mold will shrink in diameter at 90 degrees to the parting line but I have no way to reduce the diameter at the parting line.

Looking for ideas guys.

[Bret4207]

HM- I have never heard of anyone having this problem. In fact, all I've heard of is just the opposite- undersized moulds. Not being a wise guy, but did you check your mic against a standard? If you have a good mic then you might consider trading the moulds here for someone with a smaller mould. FWIW- my 4 banger 429421 cast around .431+ in WW alloy.

[HeavyMetal]

Dial Calipers are good Mitatoyo and other molds casting as usual, standards ck O.K.

[BruceB]

I had a 4-cavity 358063, a double-ended wadcutter designed for the S&W Model 52 target pistols.

The as-cast diameter was fully .363", which made it almost un-useable due to smearing of the grooves. I sold it to a member here, for use in his .38 S&W. I now have a 2-cavity 358063 which casts at .358", a far better fit for our M52s.

[HeavyMetal]

BruceB:
That is exactly the issue I see coming. Even if I run this boolit through a series of sizers, in an attempt to reduce diameter slowly, I don't think I'll have any lube grooves left!

However I'm not done with this mold yet! Today I'm going to strip all the old alloy out of my dipping pot and put in straight lead ( or as straight as I got) and cast some more and see if I can get a smaller boolit!

If not then yes it will go on the block and I'll look for another mold. I do have a second 4 banger coming in from a bid on gunbroker, this is the other Lyman DE wad cutter and I'm hoping that one is a bit more in line with my 52!

I still don't get why the 4 bangers are so much larger. Altough years ago I had a 2 cav that did the same thing so it must have been some "rocket scientist" at Lyman that decided they must be that big.

I'll post news if I get lucky with this thing.

[pjh421]

My H&G 10 banger drops them at .361 to .363. They're not round when they come out. I have ignorantly sized them down to .358 for years with no ill effect. Maybe these would be good candidates for the Johnson's paste wax trials.

I've never shot them for groups but today I slugged my Smith M15 and the throats were almost all .3595 Not a good combination with my .358 sizer die. I'll slug my M586 and M14 to see whether I want to hone the sizer.

Paul

[HeavyMetal]

I suspected that I'd find someone else with a larger than "stock" mold.

I think that a lot of wheel guns need the bigger boolits and thats how these bigger molds got the nod in Q.C.!

I am going to go through my WW and see if I have any stick on for pure lead this may or may not solve the problem. Currently qll I have to cast with is my rifle alloy and WW.

Think this mold will wind up gone or feeding an old H&R 38 S&W that's in near new condition.

[Buckshot]

.............I was the one who bought BruceB's chunky 358063 mould, and it was perzackly what I was looking for to use in my 38 S&W revolters. Maybe you shold offer it for sale as such, if you don't send it back to Lyman.

...............Buckshot

[BruceB]

Gents;

Back around the early 1970s or so, I ordered a 4-cavity 358063 direct from Lyman. Our 52s shot well with the bullets, and I KNOW the as-cast diameter was around .358....perfectly useable.

I made the mistake of loaning it out, and it never did come home again.

By the evidence of that mould, I can conclude that not all the 4-cav wadcutter moulds that we might run across are oversize, but how's a man to know when he finds one at a gunshow or wherever??? Trying to measure the cavities with a caliper doesn't seem like a very reliable method.

Just roll the dice, I guess.

[HeavyMetal]

Buckshot:
Bought the mold used, have no idea as to it's age and doubt I'd get far with Lyman if I asked for a replacement. If it was new this thing would have "feriction burns" on it from being returned so fast!

However as BruceB pointed out about used molds: ya rolls the dice and ya takes ya chance. I do not fault the seller he may have never used it or used it with LLa and never had a reason to check it.

It just seems odd that it's only been the 38 wadcutters I've had the problem with.

I have a faint hope that I can secure some pure lead and that will get me a "smaller" boolit from this molds. It casts, great I made 400 in an hour and a half the other night.

Although the boolit weight may prohibit me from using the boolits at that point I figure pure lead in this thing will go 165 grains!

Then again 2.7 of Bullseye ain't a 454 super mag either!

My "new" 35887 should be here by thursday we'll see if thats any better.

If not I may become the source for 38 Smith & Wesson boolits on the site!

[anachronism]

My Lyman casts big too. I don't remember exactly how big, but it was really evident. I just figured it was intended for use with pure, or nearly pure lead, which casts smaller than higher antimony alloys. I've used mine for years without issue, casting with scrap from an indoor range.

[oso]

The 4 cav 35863 I have casts .358 diam. My S&W 52 likes 'em.

[HeavyMetal]

OSO:
What ever you do don't ever sell it! Or at least PM me if you decide to!

My next move is to try pure lead, I'm trying to scrounge some up, might just go to a plumber "house" and pay the price just to be done with it.

[SpaceGlocker]

I have a Saeco #382 4 Cav 38 "Keith Design" 158 gr SWC that cast to .363 with WW......I'm sure it would cast smaller by tweaking the recipe .............it is for sale or trade.......PM me if interested....don't have enought posts yet to list........:(

[SpaceGlocker]

Here is a paragraph from an old seaco mould catalog......
the topic is Bullet Size and Weight.....and how to vary them......it is being copied without permission................

"The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead). Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting
alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight. Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having
the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast from wheel weights and linotype. Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing. Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the alloy’s antimony content. The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature."
Hope this helps.........