best progressive tool

[bushytail man]

I am going to buy a progressive press for handgun calibers. Which is the best, most reliable and trouble free with the most accurate powder scale?
Been loading for years on a single stage, need more production.

[Dale53]

"Best" is a relative term. However, my choice is the Dillon 550B:
1 - Sturdy and gives minimum maintenance problems (tens of thousands of loads through mine).
2 - Dillon's No BS service is second to none
3 - Interchangeable tool heads are relatively inexpensive making it quite practical to be set up
for many calibers of both rifle and pistol (I am currently set up for 11 different calibers).
4 - With a good operator, it is relatively easy to load match quality ammo in quantity (I can do
500 an hour but typically, in my old age, are more likely to do 400 an hour).
5 - It is easy to set up and understand the operation. Dillon's telephone help is exemplary
if you need it (frankly, I didn't).
6 - I use about all of the various manufacturers dies with NO problem (Lee, RCBS, Lyman,
Redding, Dillon, etc). I started reloading before Dillon existed as a company so it was
important for me to be able to use what I already had.
7 - You get the idea - this is one fine and practical tool.

Dale53

[357maximum]

DILLON 550B


Now the following is one mans opinion......take it for that......stay at least 500 miles away from the lee powder spilling kings of progressives, and.....same goes for the OLDER RCBS jam'o'matic piggyback series of presses.

[be603]

It's a bit like the Ford vs Chevy or 9mm vs 45 debate; strong opinions and emotions are often associated with progressive press brands.

The 3 most commonly discussed in decreasing order of total cost: Dillon, Hornady LNL-AP, Lee.

All 3 have their pluses and minuses.
All 3 have "real" companies standing behind them that should be in business many years from now.

Me, I always wanted a Dillon but ended up with a Hornady.

I based my choice simply on the startup cost (w/ Hornady's free bullet deal thrown in) and incremental cost of additional calibers. I'm really pleased with it.

That said, my latent thrifty Scotsman gene is aching to try a Lee. [smilie=1:

Here's a really well written comparison of these 3 brands that helped me organize my thoughts when I went shopping. link (http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf)

[Mumblypeg]

I only have one, a Dillion Square Deal for .38spl and .40S&W. I don't see how it can be beat for handgun calibers and the stories about their service is no B.S.!

[mike in co]

there are some errors in the comparison, and you must remember it is HIS OPINION.
dillons powder measure is a lee design used with permission(probably for a fee).

they all work, its more like mercedes, lexus, chevy.....than a ford chevy comparison.

its a tool. its about how much you pay for and are comfortable with.....so maybe the comaprison should be snap-on, matco, craftsman....or something like that.....
most of my tools are craftsman, but i do own some snap-on.......i own two dillon 550's, one lyman turret, a LEE TURRET, AND MY MOST RECENT PRESS IS A LEE CLASSIC STEEL SINGLE STAGE!

you need to describe your needs more clearly.......

if you have to change priming systems( small to large), it does add to change out time( which is one reason i own two dillons)

all systems have issues with some powders and/or certain charge sizes.

mike in co

[shotman]

the dillon 650 if you want a FULL progresive . lee is ok but has some problems. If you get a dillon 650 i made a case feed that works for ALL cal and only cost around $30. you dont need the $80 kit to change cal. i got parts for $200 to do 8 cal shotman/ rick

[No_1]

Good morning Rick,

Please post a write up with pics on your home made case feeder.

Robert


the dillon 650 if you want a FULL progresive . lee is ok but has some problems. If you get a dillon 650 i made a case feed that works for ALL cal and only cost around $30. you dont need the $80 kit to change cal. i got parts for $200 to do 8 cal shotman/ rick

[chrisx1]

I think the issue with a question like this is that most people don't have both. Most of us decided on one and bought it without actually ever having used either one. The best thing to do would be to test drive all that you are thinking about, but that's not always practical. Study how each one works by reading all you can and searching youtube for videos. The link provided in be603's post is also good.

I can't see how you would be dissapointed with either a Dillon or the Hornady. It is just personal preferance.

A few things to consider:

Cost to add calibers - on a per/caliber basis

Time it takes to switch from one caliber to another

Die/press compatibility - (Hornady has trouble with shorter dies like Lee, but the dies can be modified to work if you want)

Will you be loading rifle and pistol, or just pistol - (would make a difference on which Dillon you could use)

The list goes on and on and on.......


All that said, the free bullet deal from Hornady is pretty hard to argue with - $200+ worth of bullets adds up to real money.....

If you have specific questions that you need addressed, post them, there are plenty of guys here running Dillons and Hornadys, and we can address those directly.

[TexasJeff]

I just gave away my (Dillon) 550B--gave it to a returning Iraq/Afghanistan vet who's wheelchair bound for probably the next one to two years while reconstructive surgery occurs on his mangled legs. He was a special ops troop who got caught up in an IED.

If I were to reconsider a Dillon press, I would go for the 650 instead of the 550. My first progressive over twenty years ago was a Lee Pro1000 which I still have and still enjoy. It's cranked out tens and tens of thousands of rounds for me with relatively no hiccups. I got spoiled to the easy case feeder that didn't rely on electricity, and the auto-indexing.

That's what makes a progressive a true progressive.

I just never warmed up to the Dillon 550--again, for a progressive, I prefer to only seat the bullet and pull the handle and get a loaded round for all that work and effort. .;)

That's why I'd go for the 650.

Jeff

[Echo]

I haven't tried them all - in fact, I have a Dillon 550B that I have had for only a couple of years, and like it. Once I got the rythem down, I could churn out pretty good. All of the aabove plusses apply. Otherwise, I have had a RC for >35 years, and a Lyman Spar-T. So

I can tetify that the Dillon does good work - but can't comment on how it compares to the others.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've owned a Dillon 550. Wasn't overwhelmed by it and replaced it with a Hornady LnL. Been real happy with that. A friend owns a 650 and I've loaded on that quite a bit. If I were going to load rifle and pistol, I'd go for a Hornady LnL, as the Hornady produces a rifle round with less runout than the Dillon. If I were only ever going to load just pistol, I'd go for a Dillon 550 or 650, as the Dillons are probably the best pistol loading progressives around.

Both brands are excellent and produce excellent ammo. That said, unless you're loading thousands of rounds a month , you'd be just as well off with a Lee Classic (cast iron) Turret. The progressives eat up components faster than most people can buy them. The Lee Classic turret is an excellent press and loads ammo as good as either of the other two. It's not as fast, but is more than fast enough at 200 rounds per hour (typical production) to meet the needs of most shooters and is very fast to change calibers.

IF I had bought a Lee Classic Cast single stage and a Lee Classic Turret years ago, I probably would never had needed any other presses.

Just my .02,

Dave

P.S. There really is no "best," just different presses and price points for different tasks.

[Cherokee]

I have a 650 with case feeder. Wonderful machine. Trouble free. Really will turn out the ammo.

[August]

I have owned, and used a dillon sdb and a hornady LnL. They are both excellent presses that have saved me a lot of time, money, and frustration. Both companies have been responsive to any inquiries I've made.

It really comes down to the purpose for the press. I shoot competitively and need a press that turns out a lot of DEPENDABLE ammo. Both the sdb and LnL do this extremely well. I would never consider any press other than a completely automatic advance machine. Every squib I've seen in competition is the result of a Dillon 550 loading error. (dillon 550 owners always get pissed when you say it, but it is true). One squib can ruin a thousand dollar weekend, if you're a competitor. If you don't compete, then the issue is moot, I suppose.

You say "pistol calibers." The SDB changeover procedure is challenging, but the dies and shell plate are very compact -- taking up little storage room. The LnL is a breeze to change over, but the dies are full size. If you only shoot ONE caliber, the SDB is unbeatable, IMHO. With the strong mount and bullet tray, the machine comfortably cranks out 500 rounds per hour. I found it to be faster the the LnL by a wide margin. The LnL, on the other hand, has a fabulous powder measure (which you mentioned) that has many different rotor options available for it and can be converted for black powder use easily.

Most competitors that I know consider another press when they add calibers to their lives. Lot's of guys have multiple SDBs and an LnL around these parts.

If you are a plinker, hunter, or occasional shooter, the 550 might be a good choice also.

[Firebird]

Another press to consider that hasn't been mentioned yet is the RCBS 2000. This is a 5 die station press similar to the Dillon 650, and is now available either with or without automatic indexing (the press advances the die plate when you pull the handle). The powder measure used is the Uni-Flow, mine came with both pistol and rifle drums so you can load about any caliber (some rifle are just too large, like 45-120 or 577 NE).
APS priming is standard, and is a much better system than any other press. There is available a kit to convert to a tube fed priming system for people who just can't accept the APS strips. A strip loader did come with my press, so I just load up WLP and Federal primers in the strips as needed. This press has the easiest and fastest caliber changes, and by far the fastest priming size change; takes about a minute, beginning to final adjustment; try going that fast with a Dillon or Hornady!
RCBS 2000 has a cast iron frame, comes with bins for the empty brass and loaded cartridges and a sheet metal tray to hold the bullets. Also comes with the allen wrenches needed to assemble and adjust the press and powder measure; you do need to provide a couple of end wrenches to complete the assembly.

[broomhandle]

Hi All,

I have a Dillon 550 B for about 18 years now.
NOT a problem!
:-D
I'm old school If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I load for about 9 handgun rounds and about 6 rifle rounds. The press is quick & simple to change out.

I do size ALL the rifle cases in my 25 year old RCBS Rock Chucker. Then trim & reload on the Dillon. I even won a few serious matchs with the Dillon reloaded ammo!
I have NO experiance with the other press's mentioned.

Best to all,
broomhandle

[runfiverun]

dillon 550 period

[dromia]

The Hornady L-n-L is at least as good as the Dillon 650 at less cost.

No brainer really.

[shotman]

no1 bob sent a pm maybe you can get the pic on here about my case feeder it works good. I made it so its cheap and it works. As someone said most people dont have all the presses to make a good call , I have a Lee load master it works ok most of the time. Cal changes is simple,case feed is what i used on the dillon.Lee bullet feed sucks, as most do I would guess. I wished MEC would get a mattalic press. shotman/rick

[No_1]

I got your PM, sent you a e-mail and will post what you e-mail me.

Robert


no1 bob sent a pm maybe you can get the pic on here about my case feeder it works good. I made it so its cheap and it works. As someone said most people dont have all the presses to make a good call , I have a Lee load master it works ok most of the time. Cal changes is simple,case feed is what i used on the dillon.Lee bullet feed sucks, as most do I would guess. I wished MEC would get a mattalic press. shotman/rick

[omgb]

[quote=mike in co;351839]there are some errors in the comparison, and you must remember it is HIS OPINION.
dillons powder measure is a lee design used with permission(probably for a fee).


I think you have this wrong Mike. The Dillon powder system IIRC, is a knock off of the old Star system. I've read where guys compared the two side by side and and they each say the linage is very clear. That being said, I still may be wrong and am open to being schooled.

[Dale53]

Dillon pays Lee a royalty on the powder measure activation method.

Dale53

[omgb]

I stand corrected on the origin of the powder measure...


If you really have to have a progressive press then you want to consider two things up front, one, do you need full progressive or manually indexing.

If you load maybe 500 rounds every couple of weeks you may only require the manual indexing. In that case, go with the Dillon. It's more money up front but you will off-set some of that on the price differential between a full-auto progressive and the manual advance.

If you load more than that you will want to seriously consider not only the full-auto progressive presses but, a case feeder as well. If you go this route, the Hornady delivers more value for your money. Yes, Dillon is an exceedingly good machine with a warranty nobody can beat, but caliber changes, the four die heads and that cranky powder measure are all a PITA.

Hornady's warranty is almost as good or equal depending upon who you listen to. Change-overs are cheap and easy and if you shoot cast, that extra station allows lots of different configurations. Also, The Dillon low primer warning device is easily fitted to the Hornady press and everybody's dies except some Lee dies work with the LNL.

I have two LNLs and a T7. I love the heck out of mine and wouldn't switch.

[scb]

I had a Dillon Square Deal that worked very well. The only reason I got rid of it was a bought an RCBS Ammo Master(back when they auto indexed) so the square deal was redundant and a friend wanted it real bad.

[MtGun44]

Cranky powder measure????

I have a powder measure for each caliber, hook up the link in about 5-10
seconds and go.

Not sure what is cranky about that. In fact, I put the .308 head on just this
evening after months of not using it. First load of 4064 was a bit higher than
planned (lots of time to settle into the chamber) but the second one was right
on charge to the tenth. I checked a bunch more and they were OK.

Bill

[omgb]

You have a powder measure for each caliber, that kinda spells it out. [smilie=1:Those puppies aren't cheap and the only reason for having more than one is because to set one up starting from zero each time is time consuming. The measure on my Horandy is dial set. I can set a charge to within 4 or 5 tenths of a grain buy dialing in the setting on the measure stem. One maybe two drops with slight tweeking inbetween and I'm on target. No need to remove the measure, disconnect anything or anything else other than twisting the adjustment stem

[Firebird]

ALL of the powder measures are a pain when you have to change what powder you are using, doesn't matter whose you buy. Having to disconnect the linkages to take it off of the press, dump the powder and work the measure and check for all of the powder being OUT of the measure is a pain. I usually end up pulling the drum on my Uni-Flow and Redding 10X measures whenever I change powders, just to make sure that they really are empty. Last thing I want is to have a cartridge loaded with half Bullseye and half W296. Then you have to put everything together again. Yes, both my Redding 10X and Uni-Flow (Hornady also uses the Uni-Flow under license) have micometer adjustments so you can get very close to the correct setting (as long as you bothered to write it down the previous time), but changing powders is always a pain.

[omgb]

Hornady LNL works like this: rotate one quarter turn to the right, lift off the measure, dump the powder, cycle the handle one time to make sure the measure is clear, remount, turn one quarter turn to the left, adjust micrometer spindle and you're good to go. You disconnect nothing.

[shotman]

that is the bad thing with dillon- pain to change-i made a long T bolt to replace the allen cap screws works better -=-also got a uni tex to replace the ajusting bolt some what less trouble shotman

[38 Super Auto]

Never saw a need for that fancy schmancy progressive stuff. I don't partake in the blue or red kool-aid folks. I am happy to reload using my Lee loader with a jug of' my corn squeezin's . Been using the Lee loader failthfully since the chinese invented gunpowder. They didn't have a customer service number back then, but I didn't need it.

Cast my boolits from reduced galena one at a time at a campfire like my grandpappy did.

No I don't see no reason to upgrade. Been happy since the 13th century, when I traded in my spear and hatchet for black powder. :roll:

[Dale53]

I have NO argument with others choice of Progressive Press. However, I keep seeing comments on the Dillon 550B requiring manual index (it does) and that, somehow, being unacceptable for real volume. Well, I can crank out 500 .45 ACP's in an hour using "manual indexing" and NO case feeder. I am now an, ahem, "older gent" at age 73, and I tend to run it a bit slower (400-450 per hour). However, that is NOT slow. One hour a week (I only shoot 300 or so per week of a particular caliber) keeps me going. That is NOT slow (repeated with prejudice:mrgreen:).

So there!![smilie=1:

Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Go with the dillon

[bullshot]

+1 on the Dillon

[mike in co]

[quote=mike in co;351839]there are some errors in the comparison, and you must remember it is HIS OPINION.
dillons powder measure is a lee design used with permission(probably for a fee).


I think you have this wrong Mike. The Dillon powder system IIRC, is a knock off of the old Star system. I've read where guys compared the two side by side and and they each say the linage is very clear. That being said, I still may be wrong and am open to being schooled.


me thinks i read it in lee's own "modern reloading" book...... believe it is the wiper system, not the linkage that is patented.

mike in co

[targetshootr]

Dillon 650.

[gefiltephish]

[QUOTE=omgb;352383]


me thinks i read it in lee's own "modern reloading" book...... believe it is the wiper system, not the linkage that is patented.

mike in co

2nd edition page 93. After discussing the case activation of the auto disk:

"In case you are wondering about all the other brands of case operated powder measures and dies, they all have paid to use my patents. Some reluctantly and only after considerable legal expense."

[Rockchucker]

I've had my Dillon for about two months and have made (without looking in my log) around 3000 plus rounds of ammo without a hitch. Still use my Rockchucker for rifles and a couple other calibers that I haven't bought converions for yet. I love my Dillon.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Guys, this is a thread from a year ago. How do you guys find these things?

Dave

[Russ in WY]

Dose what I need for Me.. Russ.

[waksupi]

Guys, this is a thread from a year ago. How do you guys find these things?

Dave

Dave, it may be a year old, but it is day one for some members here!

:drinks:

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

That's why I'm asking, I can't find year old threads.

Grin,

Dave

[shooterg]

For one pistol load, one caliber, Dillon SDB is hard to beat. Got one for .38, need another one to set up in .45 . Any other pistol cartridges I consider "odd" and load on a single stage Lee !Do use a 550 for most rifle, and I actually LIKE the manual indexing for that.

[dromia]

"Buy Dillon"

Now that is what I like to see. A thoughtful reasoned argument that helps people make informed decisions, way up the pros and cons of different products and make a choice that is appropriate to them. :roll:

[Trifocals]

I have a Dillon 450 which does a great job. The 550 is essentially a 450 with refinements. I also have a new Dillon 650 that I purchased at a garage sale (so cheap it would only make others cry if I stated the price). I have yet to use the 650 as I have been purchasing the necessary dies and conversions for all of the handgun calibers I load for. If the 650 is anywhere as good or better than my old 450, I will be extremely well pleased. I have a friend who has a Dillon Square Deal, which he uses heavily. I have watched him operate it and it is a smooth operating machine. The SD uses a few Nylon parts which he says Dillon happily replaces if they wear excessively or break. He is sold on the SD. On a whim I tried a Lee Pro 1000 with all the available acessories. I never could get it to operate in a satisfactory manner. I was not impressed with it. I have not been in contact with anyone using a Hornady, so cannot comment on them. My experience with Dillon is all 100% positive. :drinks:

[Dale53]

This IS an interesting thread. Sometimes, in our brand loyalty (not necessarily misplaced) we forget that there are OTHER issues:

1 - How many calibers are you loading for? (The difference in caliber changes
between a Dillon 550B and a Dillon 650 is significant).
2 - How much money do YOU have to spend.
3 - How much do you really shoot?

I have a number of reloading presses. I NEED a number of different presses (at least, that's what I tell myself[smilie=1:)

My two Dillons carry the bulk of my reloading for both rifle and pistol.

However, if I have 200 rounds or less to do, then I call upon my Lee Classic Turret press. This one will allow a feller or gal to do 150-200 rounds per hour and has almost INSTANT caliber change. In fact, it is arguably the best press going for a new reloader. You can use it like a single stage until you get "up to speed" then use is as a full fledged turret press.

However, if you shoot as much as I do, then the Dillon 550B or Hornady LnL make sense. When I bought my first Dillon, the only competitor was the original Hornady Progressive. I DID try out both and the Dillon was MUCH more user friendly. When it came time to add the second Dillon (just a couple of years ago) it made no sense to add a second entirely new system when I could use all of my old tool plates and just needed to buy a second press, only. If you are looking for your first progressive, then I would suggest you try both the Hornady and the Dillon. Even then, Dillon's service is tops in the industry by a BIG factor. So, I got another Dillon 550B. The beauty of the 550B is that it is equally good with QUALITY rifle ammo. All progressives can NOT say that.

FWIW
Dale53

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

T Even then, Dillon's service is tops in the industry by a BIG factor. The beauty of the 550B is that it is equally good with QUALITY rifle ammo. All progressives can NOT say that.

FWIW
Dale53

This are two statements I cannot agree with, as my experiences were different. When I owned a 550, I found Dillon's warranty service to be lukewarm at best and my 550 to be a handful, it had a primer problem Dillon never fixed and I always felt they thought the problem was with me, not the press. I finally sold it to a buddy who also experienced the issue and they finally replaced the press with a new one before they ever resolved the issue, after a fairly lengthy back and forth shipping process. I replaced my 550 with a Hornady LnL AP, which I found superior in every aspect - speed, ease of use, durability, room, powder measure, you name it, the LnL was better.

The LnL AP also produced rifle ammo with less runout than my 550 and my buddy's 650, whom I also compared runout with. Additionally, the powder measure was always easier to use and adjust and caliber changes a bit faster, though not as fast as my Lee Classic Turret.

The bottom line for me was, when my son returned my borrowed LnL, I made a decision to sell my Classic Turret, as I was no longer loading low volume cartridges in batches between 100-200 rounds. All my stuff now is either single stage small batches or really large quantities, where the Hornady really shines. It's fast, easy to operate, very roomy for large hands and it's been extremely rugged/reliable.

I've never used the warranty service for any replacement parts except springs (That I replaced as part of maintenance I was doing, turned out I didn't need to in most cases, unless I had broken then myself.) and in those cases, Hornady shipped promptly with hassle involved.

This year, I'm upgrading to the EZject system, just because I can (for a whopping $29.99) and I'm adding a case feeder. After that, I don't foresee ever needing another press.

I have four powder measures. Of those three, I own two Lee Pro Auto Disks because I use them with Lee die sets I have (.45ACP and .380ACP). I did this because it was cheaper to add those than to add the newest Hornady CAPD (My press came out before the powder through expanding case activated powder drop they have now.) and I prefer the feel of the older style CAPD.

I have a Hornady LnL powder measure that came with my press I use for 100% of my rifle cartridges at the present. I have am RCBS Uniflow I used with my Hornady CAPD on my now gone Lee Classic Turret. I may yet break down and add another CAPD, so I can use the Uniflow for pistol and sell the Lee measures. Problem is, I'm not sure I can justify it and may end up having to sell the Uniflow instead. The LnL powder measure is that good and the powder capacity is superior to the Uniflow.

Will have to think about it a bit more. Right now, while I have measures I can use for anything, my having consolidated my pistol to two cartridges and my rifle cartridges to 3 or so, therefore I'm not sure adding anything is justified, though selling off some stuff might be.

Regards,

Dave