brass shotshell crimper: RCBS 12 and 20ga

[cpileri]

So I finally bought a pair of the brass shell crimpers in 12 and 20ga.

I don't have a RCBS press or shell holder, just the crimp dies.

So, any ideas on how to use or make a DIY set up to use these to crimp the magtec hulls, rather than some case lube and my awesome upperbody strength (not)?

C-

[GoodOlBoy]

not just real certain why you would want to crimp brass hulls... One the roll crimp often doesn't completely uncrimp when shooting, and it's a pain in the tookas to load around the crimp, and two it just isn't needed...

it goes primer, black powder, overpowder wad, cushion wad, shot, overshot card, waterglass....

Here let's see how Mr Potterfield does it (one of my favorite short videos to watch and I like any excuse to share it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI47bl2h0cU

God Bless, and one Love!

GoodOlBoy

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That is a good video! Thanks for posting it.

[cpileri]

Cool video. thanks.
I have a specific load in mind, where crimping the hull is what ( I think) I want.

I may look into a used RCBS mini grand press.

C-

[bikerbeans]

GOB,

I suspect black powder and birdshot are not the ingredients of cplieri's load.

BB

[cpileri]

BB,
How did you know?
:)

[GoodOlBoy]

magtech brass shells are rated for black powder only.

Ballistic Products
Magtech brass hulls are designed for traditional black powder loads.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2011/10/6/loading-brass-shotshells/

So first, a couple of safety admonitions: Brass shotshells are suited for black powder or black-powder substitutes only.

If you contact Magtech tech support they will tell you the same thing.

As for shot size, it doesn't matter if you are using #11 shot, or 000 Buck so long as the load data is correct. For round ball, buck-and-ball, and slugs there is black powder data out there it just isn't always easy to find.

Anyway good luck...

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

[rhouser]

cpileri: where did you find the 20 ga dies. I do have a press.

GoodOlBoy, I agree on the issue of the Magtech brass being the wrong one, but, they are not the only supplier. RMC is the only choice for where I am heading. I hope I am allowed to post a link here, if not, moderators please delete it with my apologies. I intend to roll crimp a .627 413 gr H.P. boolit into the top of the shell using the crimp groove and solving the problem of how to "finish" my 20 gauge paradox round. It is my intention to shoot this out of a Savage 220 bolt action. The box magazine will take a full 3" shell. My intention is to get the boolit as close to the forcing cone as I can while still allowing a jump.

http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/products.htm

cpileri, do you feel like sharing your 20 GA die provider?

thanks rch

[cpileri]

brownells

[rhouser]

C: thanks, I kept finding the 12ga but not a 20ga. I think we are heading the same direction. rch

[cpileri]

Good luck.

[Cap'n Morgan]

C: thanks, I kept finding the 12ga but not a 20ga. I think we are heading the same direction. rch

Perhaps you could modify a tube cutter with a dull cutting wheel to make a cannelure crimp below the case mouth.

[victorfox]

magtech brass shells are rated for black powder only.

Ballistic Products

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2011/10/6/loading-brass-shotshells/


If you contact Magtech tech support they will tell you the same thing.

As for shot size, it doesn't matter if you are using #11 shot, or 000 Buck so long as the load data is correct. For round ball, buck-and-ball, and slugs there is black powder data out there it just isn't always easy to find.

Anyway good luck...

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

Sir, not quite. The truth is that CBC/Magtech is such a lousy and lazy company and they don't care about testing and producing loads for smokeless, using the hundreds of options available in the USA.

As a matter of fact, in Brazil, where I live and where the CBC plants are located, we have reliable load data from CBC using smokeless powders made by them.

Again, they are so lazy, they list only one load for each gauge, and it's the fastest powder they produce, named #250, which burns probably as fast as 3FG or Red Dot.

I'm attaching the load data table for Magtech brass shells, which is scattered among other loads, in the hope it's useful for someone, though it's in Portuguese and the Magtech/CBC powders aren't available everywhere. The brass loads are at the lines marked "PRESIDENTE". Also, the loads are very light.

I've been loading the .410 brass with the 216 and 219 powders, which are a bit slower (216 ~= W231, 219 =< Unique), from 3/8oz to 1/2oz of shot, respectively, while the published data call for 5/16oz (9grams) using the faster #250 powder.

Best regards to all.

[Jim atlas]

magtech brass shells are rated for black powder only.

Ballistic Products

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2011/10/6/loading-brass-shotshells/


If you contact Magtech tech support they will tell you the same thing.

As for shot size, it doesn't matter if you are using #11 shot, or 000 Buck so long as the load data is correct. For round ball, buck-and-ball, and slugs there is black powder data out there it just isn't always easy to find.

Anyway good luck...

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

First post here--great sight!
With al humility, how could brass hulls only be rated for BP? If flimsy plastic or PAPER hulls can withstand the pressure of smokeless powder, why wouldn't metal? Not trying to be argumentative--if there is a reason, I'd like to know.
Again, love this sight.

[17nut]

The Magtech cases are way thin around the bottom and primer.
A plastic case has strength because it is thick.

This Magtech case uses a LR primer wich is'nt that high and look how it bulges to accomodate it.
The plastic one on the other hand will encase a 209 primer easy.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012385_zpskskl2qui.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012385_zpskskl2qui.jpg.html)
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012384_zpspdfzwiv3.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012384_zpspdfzwiv3.jpg.html)

[Jim atlas]

Hmm... That makes sense. But it makes me wonder about the .090 federal hulls--the primer sticks up in them quite a bit too.
Thanks!

[cpileri]

As victorfox pointed out, the magtec brass are good for smokeless powders; we just don't know which American (available in USA) powders they are.
We can extrapolate some low pressure data from the data he gave; all loads are just under 1200fps.
shot weight is:
410:--139 or 193gr
28ga---239gr
20ga-- 347gr
16ga--417gr
12ga--494gr
all at 1140-ish fps.

So it can be done. just need to be careful. Plus they are more voluminous than thick plastic hulls, so pressures will be a bit lower given our usual load recipes; again, we just don't know how much lower.
C-

[Cap'n Morgan]

A magtec brass case can easily withstand any certified shotgun pressure and the some, and is certainly much stronger than any plastic or paper case. But it is NOT a rifle case by any measure. There's a reason Ed Hubel uses modified .50 BMG cases in his 12 Gauge From Hell...

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah magtech 20 gauge brass uses 19 gauge wads because of how thin the walls are. They work very well with black powder. I've never had issue with them with black, but I've seen guys bust them with smokeless loads. In particular I've seen folks trying to use plastic wadding and smokeless have everything from split brass to just problems with "blooper" rounds. Now I will say that people who have drilled out the large pistol primer pocket to accept shotgun primers in the 12 gauge brass have had a wee bit more luck with plastic wads (although that may be coincidental), but all of them that I know of are still using either black powder or substitutes.

Anyway do what you want. It will be interesting to see who is complaining about bulged barrels in a few months to a year. Kinda like when we warn folks about wild load ideas and they come back with a blown up revolver and it HAS to be the revolvers fault...

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy