Remington 1100 barrel go boom

[ilcop22]

Afternoon,

Went pheasant hunting this past sunday, and lent my brother one of my Remington 1100s for his first pheasant hunt. Bought a new box of Federal 5 shot, and went on our way. His first shot bagged a big old rooster. His second shot blew up the muzzle of the barrel. I understand Remington had themselves a lawsuit back in the 90s over this. Never thought I'd see one of my gun barrels fail like this. I'll try and post another angle tonight.

179929

[NSB]

I've seen quite a few barrels like that over the years and every one I saw was the result of an obstruction in the barrel. My own brother did it to one. It's usually snow or mud in the end. Not saying that's definitely the cause, but it's most likely the cause. The shot got all the way to the end before it hit an obstruction and petaled the end.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That has got to be a bore obstruction. Not only factory ammunition, but virtually no kind of handload could do it in that location, without doing worse a lot further back. Paper-thin steel would stand the pressure there, if it wasn't for the danger of accidental denting, or someday having to bore it even thinner to remove pitting.

If it came to a product liability case, the question would be whether the gun or ammunition manufacturers did something wrong, or you did. It would be useful if you have witnesses who can swear there wasn't a shot, especially a peculiar-sounding shot, between the two you mention, and that it was clearly your friend's that killed the pheasant. Hindsight is always annoying, but in such cases it is a good idea to have them scratch their initials on the case heads.

I don't believe you should try to link the failure with any defect in the choke area of the bore, although that is what gave way. Mud or snow would have to go rather further in. An obstruction burst comes when something materially slows down the projectile. The gases, which are elastic, build up to a cushion of very high pressure behind the projectile, which is what does the damage. But that takes time. So unless the projectile is brought to a complete standstill, the burst takes place some way ahead of where the obstruction was. I may be too cynical in thinking someone could suggest a slug round was accidentally fired through a full choke barrel. But I doubt if even that, in any conventional bullet alloy, would do this.

I've posted this picture before, of the rare double ring-bulge, achieved experimentally in a condemned but not weak barrel. What happens is that the pressure-wave, which is extremely elastic, bounces back to the breech-face, and then forward again to repeat the process after the obstruction has moved a little further. It proves that the gases can travel at many times the speed of the projectile. Although they only weigh part of the powder charge weight, their kinetic energy is mass times the square of velocity.

179930


This case is only about scientific curiosity and the value of an 1100 barrel. Most likely if you can make a good argument and don't demand an incriminating grovel, Remington or Federal will eagerly press an ex gratia barrel into your hand. Don't get ugly till you have spoken them fair. A couple more Gaelic proverbs are that nothing gets into a closed fist, and you should not loose your dog before the deer falls.

But if anybody reading this is ever involved in a lawsuit for serious injury or a valuable gun, the book to go to for an argument is the three-volume "The Modern Shotgun" by Sir Gerald Burrard. It was only updated up to the 1960s, but the shotgun has been updated very little since the 1920s, and even if it has been equalled on detail by someone, Burrard was a highly regarded forensic scientist and expert witness who investigated hundreds of shotgun failures. Win or lose, you get one of the best of all shotgun technology books for your money.

[ilcop22]

Well, I didn't post this to argue anything, more like a hey look at this barrel post. The only possible obstruction would have been the wad from the previous shell. The shotgun was never misplaced or set down between shot one and shot two.

[dverna]

The wad cannot get stuck in the barrel if the first shot had enough energy to down a bird.

I have had Federal cases separate and a part of the hull lodge in the barrel. This happened numerous times with Gold Medal loads. I am not sure if that would cause your barrel failure, but it is a consideration.

Don Verna

[Boolit_Head]

Was it Steel Shot? I've seen a few cases where the steel shot and tight chokes did not play nice. Several of those older 1100 barrels are not rated for steel shot either.

[Boolit_Head]

The wad cannot get stuck in the barrel if the first shot had enough energy to down a bird.


A base wad can.

[tazman]

Back in the late 70s, Remington made some trap ammunition that had a 2 piece hull with a plastic base wad. This base wad would occasionally come loose and lodge somewhere in the bore.
Remington claimed that since this base wad had a hole in the center, it would not burst the barrel. They even put on demonstrations at various shoots with some one putting the wad in various places in the barrel and shooting them out. I don't know if this is possible since I didn't see the demonstration myself. I was at the shoot the next day and everyone there was talking about it.
It still sounds dangerous to me.

[runfiverun]

I have been finding some federal hulls recently where the tube is separating right above the brass head.
it's not the cheap paper base top gun hulls doing it.
it's the federal target and field type hulls and the target [gold medal] hulls doing it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Back in the late 70s, Remington made some trap ammunition that had a 2 piece hull with a plastic base wad. This base wad would occasionally come loose and lodge somewhere in the bore.
Remington claimed that since this base wad had a hole in the center, it would not burst the barrel. They even put on demonstrations at various shoots with some one putting the wad in various places in the barrel and shooting them out. I don't know if this is possible since I didn't see the demonstration myself. I was at the shoot the next day and everyone there was talking about it.
It still sounds dangerous to me.

A bit dangerous, yes. Personally I doubt if either the over-powder wad or the base wad is heavy enough to create this burst. Like I said, that takes deceleration of the projectile. But it isn't the hole in the middle of the base wad that would make the difference. It isn't like the shot and wad of the following shot are going to find their way through it.

There were two theories about obstruction bursts which have been discredited.

One was the obstruction, if it is something like a shot charge or bullet, is expanded by the impact of the following one, bulging the barrel in the process. But experimenters used brass slugs for both the obstruction and the projectile which hits it, and picked them up after the burst to find them unexpanded.

The other is that air trapped between these two solid objects was compressed to abnormally high pressure. They debunked this one by using a piece of tubing as the obstruction, with a bigger hole through the middle than a base wad, to make sure air couldn't be trapped. It is the weight, and possibly how tightly the object is wedged, that counts.

I still think the most likely thing is that your friend picked up some dirt or snow. But it is possible to load a smaller gauge shell ahead of the one you fire. I have just passed one of my 24ga shells down to protrude just a little of its length from the muzzle of a 12ga. Not many people have one of these, and in theory a 28ga should pass straight through even a full 12ga choke. But it is still a possibility.

Where this is most dangerous is when the rim of the smaller shell, normally a 20 in a 12, is held by the forcing cone. It is even worse than it used to be, because the chance of not detonating the 20 has almost vanished with the introduction of the star crimp instead of an overshot wad. But it was always, as the heaviest thing you ever load in a gun, a very dangerous obstruction.

[buckshotshoey]

Inspect the empty hulls if you can still find them. That will tell at least half the story. My bet is on mud in the barrel. The location of the burst is giving it away.

[dverna]

One further add on the Federal hull separation. It seemed more of an issue with the hulls before the latest "improved" hull. It happened on new shells and seemed worse with reloads. When Federal was called, the guy my buddy (who used to shoot a lot of Gold Medals) was told it was not a danger and to "shoot the lodged hull with the next shot". Yea...right. We shoot trap guns worth well north of $10k so that is not going to happen - and even if it was "safe" what would it do to the pattern when every shot in a match counts?

If this ever happens to you, the easy way to get the hull out is to take three or four dimes and put them down the muzzle of the barrel, then take a rod and hammer everything out towards the breech. There was only one time we had to squirt some oil down the barrel to remove a lodged hull.

Don Verna

[Texas by God]

I'm glad no one was injured. Time for a hacksaw & then it's a quail barrel!

[243winxb]

The wad from the previous shell or the base wad may do it.

Old fixed choke barrels had the choke swaged into them. Seen one with a constriction that could stick a wad. Remington repaired the choke section by reaming the excess metal out, leaving a good full choke barrel.

[Mohawk Daddy]

I bought a fairly nice Winchester Model 12 at a bargain price some years back because it had a 20" barrel with a gold bead front sight on it. The gunsmith seller told me the previous owner had stuck the muzzle into a snowbank without noticing.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, we think snow is soft and fleecy, but as soon as it is compressed it is ice or water. But nearly all attempts at world high diving records now result in serious injury. When things happen fast enough, water is solid. You can break up bullets on it.

[Geezer in NH]

Inspect the empty hulls if you can still find them. That will tell at least half the story. My bet is on mud in the barrel. The location of the burst is giving it away.I agree

[Hogtamer]

While it's a long shot, another possibility is a corn/sunflower or weed stalk was struck just right and jammed in the barrel. I had this happen in a dry combined sunflower field dove shooting. The stalks were about knee high and Brittle. Fortunately when I threw up on the next bird enough of the stalk was protruding that I was able to see it and didn't fire, but it was jammed pretty solid and had to take the barrel off to push it out. This was a browning a5.

[richhodg66]

I'm glad no one was injured. Time for a hacksaw & then it's a quail barrel!

1100 barrels ought to be pretty common, this sounds like a good plan to me.

[Texas by God]

I was given a 1909 made 97 Win that had a 27-1/4" barrel with a bulge about an inch back from the muzzle. No front bead. I guess it happened TWICE to this old gal. SO now it is a 19" barrel rapid shooting wonder that defends the house when the 870 has its hunting barrel on. People are amazed when I hold the trigger back and let her rip off 6 shots in a hurry. Sorry- got sidetracked. Best, Thomas.

[Clark]

I did the banana peel muzzle on a 1939 Winchester 1897 in 1965.
It was not the original barrel. Warshalls put a new one on, after they first had been sawn off in the Seattle dock strike.
I had a bore obstruction.
I have a couple Remington 1100 12 ga shotguns, this one I got for $120 at a gun show in 2013.
It had about a pound of dirt inside. All it needed was cleaning.
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