Longbranch sporter

[303carbine]

I saw an ad in the local paper for a sporter 303 , I don't usually buy sporters, but when I called the gent,
he said it had a scope and a nice Monte Carlo stock on it.
I knew it could be a nice rifle, I grabbed some cash and drove over to see it.
When I got there I saw a very nice Longbranch No4Mk1 that had been totally scrubbed, the military marks were all gone and polished and blued.
The barrel is 22 inches with front and rear sights, the front is a ramp but still has the option to use Enfield sights, the rear is a Faz micrometer and I can see the peep sight under the scope if needed.
The stock is nicely grained walnut with a checkered fore end and on the pistol grip, it also has been professionally drilled and tapped with a T101 base and wears a 4x32 Bushnell scope.
Meanwhile as I was looking at the rifle, the sellers phone was ringing off the hook, there was 6 calls while I was there and a bunch of emails and phone calls before I got there.
Now I asked the seller the $64,000 question, how much???
He said............ $150, the money was still floating in the air as I left.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sounds like a nice catch. Any pictures?

[303carbine]

Just took some , will need my computer (wife) guru to get the pics off the camera.

[curator]

Long Branch is the best of the No.4 Lee Enfields in my opinion. When the Canadian Rifle Association (DCRA) was converting .303 rifles to 7.62 NATO, they preferred Long Branch rifles to all others for the quality of both materials and workmanship. I have a couple of No.4 sporters, both Parker Hale and Elwood Epps. These rifles are vastly under rated.

[TheGrimReaper]

We need a picture please

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Long Branch is the best of the No.4 Lee Enfields in my opinion. When the Canadian Rifle Association (DCRA) was converting .303 rifles to 7.62 NATO, they preferred Long Branch rifles to all others for the quality of both materials and workmanship. I have a couple of No.4 sporters, both Parker Hale and Elwood Epps. These rifles are vastly under rated.

curator--I'd like to hear some more about the DCRA conversion if you have the time. I know nothing about it, but am under the impression that in general such conversions were unsatisfactory until the Indians redesigned the No.1 Mk.3 with upgraded steel.
I am a SMLE and No. 4 sporter fan, and fully agree that they are under rated. I have several, all in .303. Thanks.

[tbx-4]

Not a Longbranch but I purchased a sporterized '42 Maltby No4 Mk1 a couple years ago for $75. It was a Parker Hale No4 DeLux. Turned it into a No5 clone.

Before:
http://i.imgur.com/TTpDuDq.jpg

After
http://i.imgur.com/vQ0fhTT.jpg

Shoots good too. 100 yds 5 shot group.
http://i.imgur.com/ng9RSgv.jpg

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Any good No4 should be suitable for a 7.62mm. conversion. It was the slimmer No1 or SMLE action that the British proof houses decided not to accept for that cartridge, and which the Indians quite successfully upgraded for the purpose with stronger steels. I don't know but doubt whether the proof houses would accept a conversion of an Ishapore .303. They made short Lee-Enfields from about as early as anyone, and even the change from GRI to RFI (Georgius Rex Imperator to Rifle Factory of India) came before the 7.62mm. version.

There is nothing wrong with the .303 cartridge, and a well converted Lee-Enfield makes an extremely good sporting rifle. Various stockmakers have supplied them in excellent wood, and the chances are that someone is sitting on a large mine of civilian target barrels, which would need turning down for a sporter, but are very well made. My own preference would be the SMLE action or even the long rifle action without charger guide, but that isn't a functional matter. There are rifles with which it is easier to achieve really fine accuracy, but the test of a sporting rifle isn't the best it will do, but the worst, and the Lee-Enfield is very unlikely to let you down.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

BIS--I have several RFI No.1 Mk.3 rifles in my accumulation, and except for the wood used in the stocks and some shortcuts in machining of the nose caps, they seem the equal of a British-made rifle. I must confess that I did not know the meaning of GRI. I figured it as George Rex, but was lost as to the remainder. I am aware that some No.4 rifles were re-barreled to 7.62mm as sniper rifles, but thought that a general conversion of these rifles had been found unsuitable. It's still a rear locking action, and 7.62mm pressures are higher. I also prefer the No. I Mk III for overall smoothness, and fully agree that the .303 is a very suitable cartridge. My first high power rifle at age 15 was a 1916 BSA, and I took several nice deer with it, and still own it in unmodified condition.

tbx-4 Your rifles look/looked great either way, and you sure can't argue with the shooting results! I've seen many bubba-ized Lee Enfields, but the way your Parker Hale looked is better than most. The proportion of the forestock is correct, and the replacement front sight looks good. If it was mine and I had decided to keep it as a sporter I would have had to change out the flip-flop rear sight for something more precisely adjustable for elevation, as I see you did when converting it to a No.5.

[tbx-4]

It was the slimmer No1 or SMLE action that the British proof houses decided not to accept for that cartridge, and which the Indians quite successfully upgraded for the purpose with stronger steels....

(Georgius Rex Imperator to Rifle Factory of India)


Wikipedia not withstanding, in my research I have not been able to verify the truth this statement. Cannot come across any credible evidence to support this claim.

Also... RFI = Rifle Factory Ishapore

[tbx-4]

Der Gebirgsjager,
The stock on this rifle was in pretty bad shape. Both the fore and butt stock had at least two repairs each and were separating.
The new stock (and it was new reshaped No4 to No5 profile) was super tight in the draws so the bedding is very tight and the barrel is floated just like a real No5.
Yes, I removed the flip L sight and installed a No5 graduated rear sight. Also replaced the button style cocking piece and replaced with flat grooved cocking piece. I have always liked the No5 look.

http://i.imgur.com/l9IQSVY.jpg

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, one certainly can't argue with the results. Great looking and shooting rifle. I have owned two of the original No.5 carbines, still have one of them, and despite the "wandering zero" tales both of mine shot well. Anyway, again, yours looks very nice and must turn some heads at the range.

[leebuilder]

Longbranch sporters were do I start or stop. Many of my buddy's refer to them as bombers, as many were sporterized and put on bombers as survival rifles. I find longbranch no4 to be of high quality as mentioned. Don't know much about DCRA convertions other than they are expensive. My club won't allow no4 convertions in competition anymore after a catastrophic failure much like the British NRA has done.
I own a PH 4t target rifle and has the 20ton stamp so it is safe for 7.62×51.
The no2a was made from crome vanadium or so I read.
180582
Some of my bombers and sporters
Be well

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Hi Mr. leebuilder! Great collection of LE sporters. We were just discussing the possibility of a flush fit 5 round magazine in another thread. The one in your top rifle in the photo is what I'm used to seeing--although I'd much rather have a 10 rounder. But the 5s are sometimes required for hunting rifles. Then, the rifle on the bottom has an interestingly mounted scope. I scoped one a couple of years ago and ended up with something similar on a Krag. At first I thought it looked odd, but it grows on you. You probably had the same experience I did, which was that it was next to impossible to find a scope with the correct distance between the E & W adjustment turrets and the bells and the rings, with correct eye relief. I have to agree that the Longbranch rifles were among the best LEs, and I have two that are unissued. Have to keep them away from guys like you that own a saw though, eh? ;)
180584
Click to enlarge.

[leebuilder]

I just posted aboot 5 rounders. The one on the bottom is a Churchill sporter from England I think. The scope is a repo russian PU scope I fitted to test the rifles accuracy and never got around to taking it off. I have more bombers and sporters in various states. Usually they suffer from neglect and hard use, many have poor crowns and elongated chambers. I rechamber some and restore a few and scrap the rest for parts.
My favorite is the second from the bottom, I used textured camouflage style paint for cool factor, lengthened the butt stock and rechambered it and fitted a weaver rear sight, it's a No4Mk2 and very accurate with my handloads.
I like your rifles, are they Springfields ?, different country's,, different recycled milsurps.
I always face the scope fitting hair pulling party, I find older scopes to have less issues because they lack bulbous w&e turret mounts. The Churchill has the weaver mount that uses 22 style rings so it was quite easy to mount and adjust for eye relief.
Be safe

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BIS--I have several RFI No.1 Mk.3 rifles in my accumulation, and except for the wood used in the stocks and some shortcuts in machining of the nose caps, they seem the equal of a British-made rifle. I must confess that I did not know the meaning of GRI. I figured it as George Rex, but was lost as to the remainder.

They are, but the ones in question were peacetime manufacture. Oddly enough the excessive bore dimensions sometimes found in No4 rifles reverses the usual pattern, by being commonest in early production and better in late wartime. King George's title is even better in several Indian languages - Kaiser-i-Hind, the last Kaiser.

Parker-Hale's Enfield sporters were always practical and good value, but in the late 60s, from which I still have their catalogue, the best model was stocked in a rather extreme California style, with a high cheekpiece, reverse sloped forend cap and white spacers. Also their scope mounts were aluminium alloy - practical enough, but on a rifle I have always thought, like Gilbert and Sullivan, that true love must be without alloy.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

leebuilder--they are Krags, stocked so as to hide the left side plate, by someone other than myself.
DG

[W.R.Buchanan]

tbx4: the gun I show in the magazine thread was a PH #4 Deluxe Sporter like yours except mine was done on a Long Branch Gun and had a 2 groove barrel.

It has now been rebored to 35-303 and wears Boyds Gray Laminate wood..

I like you conversion to #5 but draw the line at that #5 Buttstock. The Jungle Carbine stocks are just to brutal for me. I need a nice big recoil pad.

Randy

[tbx-4]

Randy,
I remember when you built that 35-303 a couple years back. Looks like it turned out very well too.
Yes, my '42 Maltby is a two groove barrel. I was presently surprised with how well it shoots.

That little butt pad is helped by a nicely padded shooting vest or jacket.
One warm day I went and shot 20 rounds from it with just a T shirt and a light windbreaker on... Never again!

[Multigunner]

The No.5 butt pad is less to reduce recoil than to protect the wooden buttstock from splitting on impacts. Their are replica rubber inserts for these that are hollowed out and made of softer rubber and do reduce felt recoil a bit.

The alloy used for Ishapore 2 and 2A rifles is very close to that used originally for the No.1 rifles, but apparently not quite the same. I suspect better quality of machining and heat treatment makes up most of the difference.
The allowable variation in exact content of alloying agents was pretty board when the SMLE was first manufactured, some are stronger than others, but I've never heard of any SMLE being successfully rebarreled to .308 and passing all proof firings without increasing headspace or more visible damage.
That said the working pressure of 7.62 NATO Ball ammunition is not much if any higher than that of .303 Mk8z ammunition, which is not considered too hot for either No.1 or No.4 rifles though not recommended. Much of the special ball and long range target .308 ammo generates far higher chamber pressures.

When buying a converted No.4 be sure it doesn't have a tight bore barrel, which UK shooters often had installed due to most European 7.62 ammo having undersized bullets. These raise chamber pressure significantly when standard diameter bullets and heavier charges are used.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy,
I remember when you built that 35-303 a couple years back. Looks like it turned out very well too.
Yes, my '42 Maltby is a two groove barrel. I was presently surprised with how well it shoots.

That little butt pad is helped by a nicely padded shooting vest or jacket.
One warm day I went and shot 20 rounds from it with just a T shirt and a light windbreaker on... Never again!

I would suggest a Limbsaver Slip On Pad available from Walmart for $20. Well worth it and I run one on my #4Mk1. I shoot 40 round silhouette matches with only a tee shirt during the summer here with no problem.

These pads are really squishy and cut the recoil down dramatically.

Randy

[KenT7021]

Springfield Sporters has issue No.5 butt pads at are still soft.

[bob208]

my first dear rifle was a long branch. it was a bubba job. but it only cost me $19.95 at the hardware store.

[milprileb]

Interarms used to sell the Parker Hale No.4 sporters and often chopped up some very nice matching No.4 rifles in the process of making them...all in the day when such rifles were not worth much and market flooded with them.

I'd be leaping on a PH converted No.4 if ever one floats w/in arms reach...regardless of grade. They used great rifles for these sporters and 303 is a wonderful caliber for all big game on North American continent.

I encourage all Enfield purists to turn your noses up on PH sporters so I can find one.
I am a recovering Enfield purist...I like any Enfield and a sporter done by PH is a catch in my book.

[Reverend Al]

curator--I'd like to hear some more about the DCRA conversion if you have the time.

Funny you should mention this since I just resurrected an old thread about the DCRA 7.62 Nato conversion rifles and posted some photos of mine.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267571-Lee-enfield-no4-7-62mm

[Hardcast416taylor]

At a recent online gun auction there was a very nicely sportered No4Mk1* Savage. Ramp front sight, Williams side scope mount, blued and a nicely fitted walnut stock with recoil pad went for $155 minus a scope.Robert