45 ACP in S&W 1917 using 231 powder

[DonMountain]

In my S&W WWII 1917 revolver chambered in the 45 ACP, I have been shooting purchased 200 grain SWC boolets over 7.0 grains of HERCO and WLPP's with good results. It shoots to point of aim and seems to be relitively low pressure. So I purchased an RCBS mold 45-201 SWC that looks like the boolet I have been loading and shooting. Now I am down to loading some to see what it will do. My question is, I am running out of HERCO, but have a whole bunch of old Winchester 231 I would like to use. My RCBS reloading manual for lead boolets lists a range of charges for this boolet from 4.5 to 5.0 grains of 231 for velocities from 719 to 811 fps. Any comments on this load would be appreciated. :confused:

[robertbank]

I would load it to the upper end and see how clean it shoots in your gun. It was pretty dirty in my old 625 I had. I liked 231 in my 1911 though. Worked well in the pistol.

Take Care

Bob

[W.R.Buchanan]

My Standard Load for .45 ACP is 5.7 gr of W231 with a 230 gr copper plated or Powder Coated boolit (lyman 452374)

I just fired nearly 300 of these over the past week at a shooting school and had zero malfunctions and excellent accuracy.

These are far from hot loads and from my G21SF the velocity is around 800 fps and appear to duplicate Winchester Factory Loads and Sellier and Bellot Factory Loads which I fired about 300 of as well.

The POI and POA of all these rounds was identical at 3-25 yards or common defensive handgun distances.

I load all my Midrange pistol rounds with W231 IE .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .44 Special and even 9x18 Makarov.. If I did 9x19's they would get it too.

It is a pretty good all around pistol powder.

Randy

[osteodoc08]

Love it in my 45s. I typically used 5.3gr with a 230 LRN before changing over to 6gr of BE-86 when I ran out of 231.

[ole 5 hole group]

I prefer VV N310 for the 45 ACP using the 1911 but when trying WW231 - I found 5.5 grains with a 185 grain bullet to shoot very well. Primers were WLP and Federal 150.

[robertbank]

Folks the OP is asking about a revolver. 231 is pretty dirty in a revolver. Unlike Clays for example after a hundred rounds the outside of my cylinders on my 625 were black with a lot of carbon fouling built up and that is with loads making 180 PF using 230 gr bullets. There are better powders for the application he is asking about. I agree though, 231 is my go to powder for 45acp in my 1911 and CZ 97B.

Take Care

Bob

[ole 5 hole group]

I never saw a difference in accuracy between the 1911 and a revolver using the same components - some like the same, some don't.

Myself, I prefer vihtavuori powders. N310 for 185/200 grain, N340 or N350 for 230 to 265 grain cast or jacketed bullets. Very clean and they produce the best groups by a hair when using my pistols.

When I started shooting bullseye matches decades ago, there were some competitors shooting the 25-2 in 45 ACP using 185 grain cast and bullseye powder - they could use a "softer" load than the bottom-feeders. I think we concentrated on using bullseye powder because the top shooters in that game were using bullseye powder, if they would have been using WW231, I'm sure most of us would have been shooting WW231.;)

WW231 burns real dirty at starting load quantities but cleans up fairly well close to the upper limits in the manual. 5.5 grains of WW231 is pretty clean, not as clean as Vihtavuori, but not much out there is.

[Scharfschuetze]

Like you, I use the RCBS 200 grain SWC in both the 1911 and 1917 handguns. 231 has always worked well for me in either handgun using any cast boolit. For convenience, I generally just load one standard load for my 45 ACP handguns. 231 or the similar Hodgdon HP38 has powered that load for quite some time.

[robertbank]

ole I agree with you on the choice of powders. 231 does run cleaner once you go up in loads. With IDPA I was making about 175 PF using 230 gr bullets which is not hear the top end for 45acp (5.1 gr of 231 under the lead 230 gr bullet.) I see a lot of guys using Vihavuoro powders in IPSC both in revolver and in their 9MM & 38 Super Open guns. The stuff is pretty expensive up here compared to the Hogdon powders so I tend to run with Clays, 231, 700X & 4227 in my various pistol cartridges. Unique is my Favourite in 45 Colt.

With the powder shortages over the past three years, anything that ran faster that wasn't destined for large rifle cases went done the tube in my handguns. :)

Thankfully, we are getting most everything again.

Take Care

Bob

[.45Cole]

I have found that 452460 (200gr SWC very similar to your RCBS SWC) gets it's best accuracy right at 800 fps (both in my 1911 and my 625). I achieve that with bullseye but I think you can get there with 231. If it gets dirty up it by 0.3 grain until it cleans up.

[rintinglen]

For about 15 years, WW-231 was my standard velocity pistol powder. I shot something like 60,000 38 wadcutters loaded with 3.3 grains of WW-231 and did not find it much dirtier, if any than Bullseye. I used 5.5 grains in my 45 loads with excellent results. Had it not been for Obama, It would likely be that I was still wed to the WW- brand, however I have had to use other powders and have had to develop new loads as a result therefor.

Were I the OP, I'd start at the 5.0 load suggested by RCBS--which is still a light load--and bump it up to a max of 5.7, .2 grains at a time, should I feel the need. Lyman shows a similar boolit, the 452-630, at up to 6.1 grains for 885 FPS at 16,300 CUP, which is still comparatively mild.

[JavelinaBlanco]

Great insight Bob, I am thinking about getting a 625, and currently do not load for 45... Thanks for doing some of the heavy lifting.


Folks the OP is asking about a revolver. 231 is pretty dirty in a revolver. Unlike Clays for example after a hundred rounds the outside of my cylinders on my 625 were black with a lot of carbon fouling built up and that is with loads making 180 PF using 230 gr bullets. There are better powders for the application he is asking about. I agree though, 231 is my go to powder for 45acp in my 1911 and CZ 97B.

Take Care

Bob

[GONRA]

GONRA's uses WW231 for all sorts of odd collector auto pistols.
Never noticed how cleanly it burns in such limited usage.

Also use 4.2 gn. WW 231 in a 9mm supressed Vector UZI 147 gn subsonic load.
Yup, its over the loading manual ,but necessary to operate the UZI! !!!
With the (probably) high pressure load, WW 231 burns CLEANLY and DOES NOT mess up the supressor.

(Full Auto - sounds like a wood pecker.
Have been at "nice people ranges" and they didn't even know I was shootin'! !!!)

[W.R.Buchanan]

As a relativism for cleanliness I just cleaned my G21SF after a trip to Front Sight. The gun had 550 rounds thru it on this trip. I easily could have left it alone and fired another 500+ rounds thru it with no maintenance.

Mind you the gun was dirty inside from powder fouling but not to the point of malfunctioning. The barrel cleaned up with Hoppe's #9 easily and I cleaned the rest of the inside of the gun after completely stripping it with the Hoppe's followed with Brake Clean to remove the Hoppe's.

I have shot this gun with Bullseye and it would have been locked up after 250 rounds. So I think the W231 ran cleaner. It is hard to run Bullseye hard enough to get it to shoot really clean. It needs about 30K psi to burn clean according to the guy at Alliant Powders. Bullseye is 40% Nitro! Baboom! :Fire:

Some day I might be forced to change, but until then I'll just keep shooting what I'm doing now. Not broke, won't fix.

Randy

[ATCDoktor]

I run 4.3 grains of Winchesters 231 in my S&W M1917 with a 200 grain SWC (H&G 68 copy) and it shoots to the point of aim (maybe a skosh high) at 15 yards.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c307/ATCDoctor/100_0819.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/ATCDoctor/media/100_0819.jpg.html)

Its a soft shooting load and I haven't had any problems with it being dirty/hard to clean.