bullet flight view

[405]

Last week a shootin buddy and I decided to shoot some cast bullets over smokeless out to 300yds.

We set up the 3ft x 3ft backer and put two 9 inch black bulls on for sighting. We set the spotting scope on the next bench over towards the sun side. It was fairly early morning and winds were light and variable from 9 o'clock thru 6 and then 3 and back. We were shooting a couple of C Sharps and a Shiloh. Two 45-70s and a 45-110. Each with globe fronts and aperture tang rears. I knew my loads were proven, fairly accurate "easy" smokeless loads and the other fellow's load was similar. One would shoot and the other would spot to "walk in" the shots to at least get on the backer. I shot first and took a couple of rounds to get on paper and a couple to get on the bull. I then shot a 5 shot group- out of the 45-110 showing about a 4-5 inch spread. OK! not bad for just playing around! My 45-70 would later shoot about the same size group.

After I shot my 45-110 my partner shot his 45-70. I spotted and walked his shots into the backer but it took a few more because he mis-adjusted his sight once during the process. As he got on the backer I commented, "that's cool, the bullets in flight are really showing up today". I was watching the arching, almost slow motion silver missiles drop into the paper.... It's always interesting to watch bullets fly. Given the angle between scope and gun and the range I guess the bullets were visible in the scope for about the last 50-75 yds of flight. At about his fifth or sixth shot I said, "OK, you've got one at about 4 o'clock in the bull". I then said something like, "put another in there close, I want to watch it go into the same hole". He fired the next shot and I watched the bullet disappear into the same hole! I said, "good grief it went into the same hole. You know the pressure is on now, go ahead and put the third shot in that hole". Thinking that.... naaa, surely not. He fired the third shot and I watched that bullet dive into the hole made by the previous two!!! I'd estimate center to center group size 1/8 to 1/4 inch :roll:

I then said, "OK, you'd better quit there.... Mr. Quigley!". He did

When finished, I removed the bull, wrote the info on the back and signed it. I'm sure it'll be used for some future story telling for the grand kids :)

[Don McDowell]

It's pretty neat deal to pick those bullets up in flight. I was surprised at how they really don't drop in at sharp angles at 1000 yds, the just sort of float down out of the sky and actually fly fairly level for the last 100 or less yards.

I was testing some paper patch loads Sunday, dropped the first 2 rounds of one load into the same hole, and couldn't get the other 8 on target at 500yds. That was severely frustrating and amazing all at once.:???::mrgreen:

[Buckshot]

...............405, neat post :-) Good shooting too, BTW. First time I'd seen boolits in flight was when I was first working up cast in a 223. I have a M112 single shot Savage with a 24X Tasco. The little dudes would float up into view, hang there a bit as they made the curve then looked like they sped up as they coasted down, and then disappeared as a hole appeared in the target. Ruined many a group just watching them fly.

Our range faces East and in the afternoons it's pretty easy to pick out the 58 cal Minie's as they rumble along on their way out to 200 meters! Sometimes they'll leave a kind of vapor trail. I assume this is lube.

...............Buckshot

[45 2.1]

He fired the third shot and I watched that bullet dive into the hole made by the previous two!!! I'd estimate center to center group size 1/8 to 1/4 inch :roll: :)

And with smokeless too. Can you do that with BP?

[garandsrus]

Buckshot,

The vapor trail can be seen with jacketed bullets also, so it's not lube that causes it. I have watched the trail several times when scoring for a shooter at 600 yds.

John

[redneckdan]

It has to do with the humidity in the air. The shockwave over the bullet causes water vapor to instantly condense into a cloud. It has to do with the pressure drop as the shockwave passes. here is a pic of an fa-18
http://www.wonderquest.com/images/2005-12-06-fig1-hornet-breaking-sound-barrier.jpg

same thing...bigger scale

[405]

Ya, neat photo!
The pressure differential and depending on humidity and temp may be the deal with some of what is seen around or trailing behind the bullet. Seems to be variable and not predictable. That day the bullets appeared to be larger than normal, with a fuzzy sheen surrounding them. Hard to describe the appearance- maybe a white/silver cotton ball?

Yes on accuracy with the BP loads. Actually can do a little better with the BP and paper patched loads if I clean after each shot. If no cleaning then the group sizes tend to open more quickly (fouling shots), then stabilize for a while (some kind of fouling equilibrium?) then head south badly again after some number of shots.

[mtnman31]

For those who are unfamiliar with scoping shots (and the wind mirage), the best way to watch the bullet's flight is to set up your scope directly in line with the rifle and target. Works best if your scope is directly behind the prone shooter. Aim in to the target and then take the scope slightly out of focus, typically a counter clock wise turn of the focus adjust. Between an 1/8 and 1/4 turn works best with my scope. At this point you should be able to see a mirage between you and the target. When the shooter fires you can watch the bullet rise and fall into the target as described. A spotter can get pretty accurate at calling shot placement out to the shooter. Yes, humidity and lighting conditions play into how easily seen the mirage and bullet contrail are.

At longer distances (500yds +) a bullet's longer flight time will allow the shooter to do this for himself. If the scope is set up to where you can fire and imediately crane your head into the scope you can watch your own rounds hopefully fall into the X ring. . . Gives a good demonstration of external ballistics and real world flight time of bullets at farther distances. It is also neat to see the differences in flight time between a faster bullet and a slower one. Watch the flight time between say, a 7mm mag and a 45-70 and the differences are quite noticeable.

This is also the same way competition shooters judge wind, by reading the mirage. It is really an art, one which I have not mastered. By watching the mirage a shooter can judge wind speed and direction and factor the changes into his sight adjustments. Obviously these techniques are not practical for short range shooting or field shooting but they are a great tool to take to the range. It also is fascinating for non-shooters when they can see this. Kids eyes light up when you explain what they are seeing.

[Tom W.]

I know it ain't about a single shot, but......


We were shooting my Blackhawk at my son's house one day, shooting some clay targets across his pond. My son commented that he could see the cast bullets in flight if he stood in a certain spot. I let him shoot some and it was really strange, to say the least. We didn't have a spotting scope. We could not see the bullets as we fired, but from the observers vantage point we could.

[Echo]

I always shot competition with a small eye-patch on my left glasses lens - I could see the .45 bullet going down range, especially bothersome to watch it go into the 6-ring, or somesuch. My left eye would be just to the left of the 1911, and I was only seeing it move a couple of inches, relative... Distracting...

EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA Patron
O&U

[August]

Nice post!

We are fortunate that our 500 and 1000 yard ranges have a north-south orientation with the sun behind us. We regularly pick up the base of the bullet on the way to the target. It seems to be equally visible with black and smokeless powder rounds. In fact, the BP rounds are a little easier to see because they are moving more in the vertical plane during flight. They are also going slower. It is great fun to watch them drop down into the target. Makes you more confident of the spotting call too!

[John Boy]

Mtnman - nice post. You captured in 3 paragraghs what some folks write books about. :drinks:

[NoDakJak]

The first bullet that I saw in flight was one that I fired almost straight overhead a a Chicken hawk back in the early fifties. It really stands out in my memory! It was a copperplated slug, Winchester if I remember correctly. It was somewhere around midday, hot and muggy. I could see the bullet arch up and thought that I had missed him when I saw a wingfrather detach and he rolled slightly. A couple seconds later I could faintly hear the dull thump as the slug connected. Must have been feathers only as he slowly sailed on about his business.
The next ones that I observed really fascinated me as they were the round fired from the "Five inch thirty eights" fired from the USS Midway. What a varmint cartridge that was!
The last that I observed were 55 grain Hornaday SX's fired from a Large Martini that was chambered for the 219 Zipper Improved. The targets were Rockchucks at about the ten thousand foot level in the Big Horn Mountains. This time they were bullets disintegrating in flight. They left a nice , dull or light grey contrail and then disappeared out at about 100 yards. Several made it about halfway and then performed a large corkscrew before disappearing. None made it to the target. Ah well! The SX just wasn't designed for those velocities.
During the "Tiawan Crisis" in late 58 and early 59 our pilots performed a number of air power show off the coast of China. Jet fighters included the North American, FJ4b, Fighterbomber. The FJ-1 was a straight wing fighter for the Navy that didn't make the grade. The Air Force requested a swept wing version that became the very successful F-86, Sabre. The FJ-3 was a navalised version of the F-86 and the FJ4b was a highly modified version that was by far the best of the entire breed. Then there was the F8U-1 Crusader which was the hottest naval fighter in the wrld at the time. And then there was the F3H Demon. An exceedingly ugly, Sparrownosed, dumpy looking fighter that was the immediate predecessor of the F4 Phantom. During low level, high speed turns the FJ and F8U produced some awe inspiring visual shock waves about them but the F3H with its thick wings could be truely spectacular. Chang Kai Shek seemed very impressed. It must have impressed the mainland Chinese also as they did not invade Tiawan. About the same time there was the incident when the Grumman, F11F Tiger while on a test flight fired his 20 mm cannon and then went into a dive. The acceleratng plane and the decellerating 20 mm slugs collided and the pilot had succeeded in shooting himself down. Yowza! Truth can be stranger than fiction! Neil

[Ricochet]

Those F3Hs were fugly! You can see the "family resemblance" to the Phantom, but the Phantom got the looks.

[stillhunter]

405, I did that for a guy who showed up at the range with a very expensive Sharps repro with a tang and globe front sight. He let me try three. He thought the one hole was the first shot and that I missed the 2d two. Detailed examination proved otherwise. I've never seen him again....