got that lathe today

[georgeld]

Called the guy to tell him I had the rest of the money burning a hole in my pocket.
He and a helper brought the lathe over and helped get it on the work bench. Sure glad, cart I made up broke and dropped the SOB on my big toe. Ohhhhh man did it ever-----------------------but, going to be ok. Nothing broke, don't think the nail's gonna blacken either. We had to pry it up to get my foot out from under it though. Sure glad it was on a dirt floor this time.

Anyway: reason for this post. Was just online ordering some parts and materials from Enco. Ordered a stick of 1" W2 for $22 and got notice it's now: $16.49. Good buy if anyone needs some that size. I've put off ordering it because of the price. When this change came thru I ordered two piece's.

Page 789 Item #409-0061 $16.49ea was $22.04ea

[Buckshot]

..............For orders over $50, at ENCO you can get free shipping until 6-30 with this code: WBJP8

Good deal getting your lathe. Especially them hauling it over and humping it up onto the bench! Sheesh, what did you promise them anyway?

............Buckshot

[georgeld]

Thanks Buck:
I've got an order of around $400 or more picked out.
just waiting on them to figure out which 4jaw chuck, 10"face plate and backing plate that will fit. Got one reply today, but, wasn't complete.

Sure appreciate the code!!

Far as I knew, we were all going to meet where it was and load it up, then haul it over. I sure didn't expect they'd haul it over then help put it where I wanted it to go. Wasn't much humping this time. I'd hung two chains from the trusses and had a 3ton hoist on the first one. With a wheeled truck welded up to roll it in 15 feet on. Then move the hoist to that chain and lift it up & swing over the bench.

Spent two hours cleaning on it tonight. Whole set of: tool holders, small boring bars, dial indicator w/base, both rests, three jaw and base, but, took it off the base as I don't have floor space and do have 34' of bench top. Need to drill some holes thru the bench top to mount it yet. Just been cleaning it up so far.

Hey, got the first problem. Hope I don't have to raise it up and turn it around to get it fixed up. While cleaning I cranked the main cross carriage too far and got it off the screw. Now can't seem to hit the hole with it to get it screwing back on. What's the trick??

Sure pleased at the nice smooth ways, not a mark,chip, ding any place on the whole length or either side. Never seen a used lathe that didn't have some dents in the ways.

Got on the Practical machinist forum the last few nights. Not many think much of Enco, you're not alone Rick. As long as it works and hold tolerance reasonbly I'll get along with it for my use. Mostly want to make dies for making bullets and such things as come to mind with guys like us.

[Buckshot]

"Hey, got the first problem. Hope I don't have to raise it up and turn it around to get it fixed up. While cleaning I cranked the main cross carriage too far and got it off the screw. Now can't seem to hit the hole with it to get it screwing back on. What's the trick??"

Loosen the cross slide gibbs, and if there is a bolt head (prolly a sockethead) visible atop the cross slide that holds the nut, loosen it a tad. Unless the nut has been bumped and turned (shouldn't be) pull the now loosened cross slide toward you while turning the handle, and the threads should engage.

If you have a hand mirror handy (like the wife's in the left hand drawer under the basin in the bathroom :-)) get it (wash your hands first) and a flashlight to look from the backside, under the cross slide to make sure the nut is correctly positioned.

" Got on the Practical machinist forum the last few nights. Not many think much of Enco, you're not alone Rick."

Oh I don't think I've bad mouthed Enco. I've sure bought enough from them! What is kind of a shame (in one respect) is that the Chinese aren't stupid. They can and do produce a lot of very fine machinist accessories. Due to their lack of governmental regulations, environmental strictures, taxes, and very low wages they can produce a fine product and show a profit after all is said and done. I also suppose stolen technology is also an aid!

Due to all those things we find it hard to approach their selling price. We are masters of production and the Chinese (among others) are in awe of our manufacturers flexability in dancing around and fixing problems at any level of production. However they are working hard to remake themselves and shrug off their old inflexible and short sighted ways.

If you want a brand new manual lathe, it won't be American. I may be wrong, but I think the only such animal in North America is the Canadian made Standard Modern. I know the U.S. Navy buys them for it's ships.

................Buckshot

[bohica2xo]

Congrats George, I am looking foreward to the completion of the wire extruder.

Buckshot:

Actually there are at least two US made lathes still on the market that I know of:

South Bend Toolroom Lathe (http://www.southbendlathe.com/GS26LT.htm)

South Bend still makes what was once called a "Heavy 10". They will also recondition just about any machine they ever built - for a hefty price.

Hardinge HLV Toolroom Lathe (http://hardinge.com/usr/pdf/turning/1332A_HLV.pdf)

Hardinge still makes the HLV - "The standard by which others are judged." Still the best manual machine in it's size class.

I doubt the Hardinge is big enough for the Navy, but I know the USAF is still buying HLV's. My old SB Heavy 10 still has the USAF tags on it - new in 1968. They surplused it in 1988 @ 20 years old. It had maybe 30 hours on it - still had the OEM drive belt. I bought it out of the DRMO. Only one I have ever seen with an L00 spindle & 1.400 through the headstock.

B.

[38-55]

Bohica2xo,
Alas southbend is no more... it was gobbled up by leblond. Your H10 is a young'n ! Mine left the factory in late 1952 and saw many years of hard service at the black & decker plant in baltimore md. Even in it's clapped out condition it does provide good service..
Hardinge lathes are nice..
Calvin

[bohica2xo]

Calvin:

You might want to click on that link. LeBlond did buy SB, but the toolroom lathe is still in production. As of 2/08, they were still doing factory reconditioning of the old machines too.

B.

[georgeld]

I sure did enjoy running that little Hardinge Chucker when I was i nthe shop.
Mighty long time ago though. 1966-67.

am looking fwd to using this Enco even though so many claim it's a ***.
Gotta beat the H out of the H/F combo junker and I've turned some satisfactory things on it.

[JIMinPHX]

If you want a brand new manual lathe, it won't be American. I may be wrong, but I think the only such animal in North America is the Canadian made Standard Modern. I know the U.S. Navy buys them for it's ships.

................Buckshot

Is Hardinge no longer in Elmira?

Also, the US Air Force just gave a huge air-tanker deal to Airbus after taking it away from a US based manufacturer. In the old days, the ordinance department used to require that all military hardware be produced stateside in at least 3 different locations. That is apparently no longer the case. My neighbor used to manufacture rotor systems for US helicopters. Our government paid to have a factory built in Korea & forced my neighbor to train them in all the secret processes involved. Those parts are now made in Korea & my (now former) neighbor no longer has that job or the house by me that he used to live in. I think that some of our top military brass deserves some time in the brig for not buying American. A Canadian lathe, I could probably live with, but not the rest of it.

[Scrounger]

How did they force your neighbor to do those things? Did they hold a gun to his head, or maybe threaten his family? I would like to see them force someone to do something he really didn't want to do. You think maybe they just kept stacking $100 bills in front of him until he caved in and did it? That would be my guess.

[10-x]

JIMinPHX,
Well said.
It's a DAMN SAD state of affairs that just about ALL the machine tool manufactures in this country have folded either from stupid government regulations, stupid union BS or worse yet ,STUPID management policies.
I worked for quite a few years in the automotive machine tool business and saw it happen from the 70's-90's.......made me sick.

If I remember right Bullard was bought up by the big WI machine mfg? Anyone know their status now? How about Bridgeport?

The "Huns" (Germans and Austrians) build some fine machine tools, expensive but with them "You get what you pay for".GFM builds the gun barrel forging machine used by Ruger and many others now. They also build automotive crankshaft milling machines and tire molding machines.
This global economyBS just seems to mean the chinks get to make everything and we have to buy it........good or bad :twisted:

[Phil]

Scrounger I can tell you exactly how the government forced him to do it. They simply told him that if he didn't do it they would take his business and do it themselves. I had a friend with a huge machine shop in about the same position.

airbus is a crap company. They sell the airplanes at whatever price it takes to beat the competition. But, try to buy a part for any of them! Very costly!!!!!!!!!! They can sell the airplanes for less than it costs to make them because the european governments that started the company (and probably still own it) guarantee that if they lose money on any sales, the taxpayers of europe will make up the shortfall. And our stupid government helps them destroy the US aircraft industry by buying their airplanes? Oh well.

Happy Fathers Day guys!

Phil

[Scrounger]

Sorry, I'm just not going to believe he wasn't paid, Anyway to get the details on this 'transaction' from anyone other than him?

[xpshooter]

I sure did enjoy running that little Hardinge Chucker when I was i nthe shop.
Mighty long time ago though. 1966-67.

am looking fwd to using this Enco even though so many claim it's a ***.
Gotta beat the H out of the H/F combo junker and I've turned some satisfactory things on it.

Hi; I am wondering if this Hardinge Chucker you speak of was a CNC machine?

If so, I didn't realize this machine was this old. There is one I have to fix from time to time at work. It's finally approved to be replaced, although that will probably take another year.

Thanks

xpshooter

[georgeld]

xps:
No, the Hardinge Chucker I mentioned was a fine little dove tail lathe, power feeds of course. Very tight tolerance's were possible. I made half inch stainless eccetrentrics' with three offsets about half inch each with a 1/4x20 thd on one end, .5"x .06" slotted head the miller's cut the slot, I made the rest. Tol .0002+-

About a month of these things I'd go home after shift and just tremble coming down from the tension of it all. After about three months of that and still making the same parts it got where I couldn't keep my groceries down. maybe three weeks of that I went to see the company doc and had me tested for ulcers when he asked what I was making on the floor. Had over an inch dia ulcer forming.
The hell of that was, I was only 23y.o. All these yrs I've had belly problems.

From that fantastic lathe, they put me on the monster turret that wouldn't hold half inch tolerance on it's best day.

The only automatic machinery we had in those days was a tape machine, just one, and didn't have it a full yr. Plant closed down in Aug 1966. That was the end of my machining carreer. Went to driving long haul next.

About ten yrs ago I stopped in to see what the plant was doing and two women were running about a dozen cnc's, nothing else in the five acre building. Foreman they said was the same a/h I'd worked for that went from that big turret to 2nd in command about a yr after I started there. So much for union backing. Which I have no idea what took place after I left. They were closed down a few yrs before starting back up.

When I was there (Aircraft Mechanics Inc) , the main products were aircraft seats. Weld shop made the armor plate seats for the choppers and fighters too I guess that were being prepared for Nam. War hadn't started yet then. but, there was talk about it. Story we were given in July 66 was: "everyone is going for a mandatory two week vacation, while you're gone we're going to update the plant for a major contract for Boeing's new plane. (I think was the 727. ) When you come back, be ready for 60-80 hour weeks of OT.
When we got back they told us in a meeting Monday: "we over bid and didn't get that contract, everyone works this week, on each of the next several Friday's the last three hired in each dept will be laid off until we cut the crew down to the work level. I was in the third batch of layoff's. With two little kids, and a mortgage I didn't have any choice but, to find work. Trucking was the first thing that came up, and that lasted about ten yrs and ended the marriage. There's a lot of truth to the saying: "When the kids start calling the other guy Daddy, you know you've been on the road too long"

[georgeld]

Had a lot of fun trying to drop it on bolts sticking thru the bench top. Sure glad I've got shop enough to hang it from the trusses wherever I want things, just drop a chain and hook up.

Anyway, drawers under the top are too close to run the nut end's, so stuck them up this time. Bought some 1/4" rubber gasket material and made a big gasket between the pan and lathe base. This will soften some vibration and keep any oil drippings from getting into the drawers. Glad I didn't need a full roll of the stuff. A foot wide by 48" cost $16. All this is pocket money as I'm retired just trying to get toys enough to do what I'd like to do out there. A man's shop should be equal to his dreams I've heard. This one lacks a bunch yet of meeting mine. But, I'm on the trail finally.

Hope by summers end the new floor is poured, but, it's going to be a hard months labor just moving things out of there to work on it. This is the first time since the roof has been on that I've had the money to afford the floor. Going to be heated floor. I have the tubing and boiler. Plan to hang a dozen fuel tank on the wall and use recycled engine oil to cut the heat bill some.

Any of you guys in areas that use fuel oil for heating. I'd like to learn where and what type injector pump you use on those furnaces. Just dripping into the fire creates too much smoke. Since I'm in town and middle of the block it's likely they'll nail me to the walls if there's smoke rolling like I've seen from such operations. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.

[bohica2xo]

George:

I lived in Berthoud, CO for several years & heated my shop on waste oil. Easy enough to do, the hard part was getting all of the lazy farmers to hang on to the oil for me...

I built a slightly more sophisticated unit than this one, but you will get the idea:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html

There are several other links at that page as well.

I added a heat exchanger for my high pressure washer, so I could run 160f water @ 2500 psi for cleaning things outside. Heating a bunch of water & pumping it around should be within reason. A large insulated storage tank would be a good idea too.

I wasted some effort trying to run forced air & atomized oil. Waste oil plugs every filter eventually, and the nozzle needs a filter to survive. The hippies at MEN found a low-tech way around things that just works.

I did find a way to burn scrap polyetheleyne for heat, but that is another chapter...

B.

[xpshooter]

Thanks for the inofo Georgeld, it was interesting.

bohica2xo, can you also use used cooking oil from restraunts?

[bohica2xo]

Thanks for the inofo Georgeld, it was interesting.

bohica2xo, can you also use used cooking oil from restraunts?

Yes, resturant grease burns just fine. There are a few wrinkes however. With the diesel owners competing for the "free" oil, it can be harder to find sometimes. Even back in the early 1990's, some of those cheap farmers were burning resturant grease in the diesels.

Cooking oils & resturant grease tend to solidify outside in Colorado winters. I did not like storing too much fuel inside the shop. Five gallon buckets of drain oil will still pour at -5f.

I was glad to keep them from just dumping the drain oils, and would supply buckets or drums if needed. One of my better scores was a farmer toting home a 55 gallon drum of hydraulic oil. I offered him an empty barrel for the used oil he was replacing. He told me he had a "pile" of 5 gallon buckets of old oil... My shop stayed @ 72f all winter.

B.

[38-55]

Bohica,
I have spoken with leblond and the south bend lathes have not been made since 1999... The southbend site is still up but they are not being produced. Leblond has also stopped rehabbing them to.. Leblond does still have parts for them and for the right price they may even make a part for one....
Stay safe
Calvin

[georgeld]

Hot dog, many thanks for the links and info.

Too late in the am to look now, but, will in the morning when I can get back.
One time while on the lake after a heavy rain up river I just happened to be dragging my alum boat behind the cruiser when I saw somethign big floating. Turned out to be a dozers fuel tank. I wrestled it into the rowboat alone out in the lake. Wasn't very easy either. They're big and heavy andthis things had 1/4 tank of water in it too. Anyway, I've had it in the shop maybe ten yrs now awaiting the day I could install the boiler and floor. That tanks been planned for storage of used oil's of all kinds, what ever happens to come along.

I'll make a deep feed tube with fine screen strainer to fill the oil into the tank thru. IF need be, I can thin it with something else. Was going to say diesel, but, todays price's blow that away. Might be cheaper to heat it all with natuaral gas.

The many used oil heaters I've seen have been out in the country where smoke dont' matter. One guy's shop was a diesel truck repair shop so he had many drums of used oil every year. Imagine I could go out there and get a few yet even though he died five yrs ago.
Problem with his, he'd fire that sucker up with just a drip tube and the smoke would roll out the stack. Since I'm in town and middle house on the block I'm limited to as little smoke as possible. That's why I wanted to atomize the oil. I could even pipe in compressed air if that would help.

Beyond bedtime, I'll be back on this. Thank you.

[quasi]

The reason no one makes engine lathes in America (other than Hardinge) is because Americans stopped buying them. $18,000 for a Southbend 10L when it was last made?

[PatMarlin]

Hot dog, many thanks for the links and info.

Too late in the am to look now, but, will in the morning when I can get back.
One time while on the lake after a heavy rain up river I just happened to be dragging my alum boat behind the cruiser when I saw somethign big floating. Turned out to be a dozers fuel tank. I wrestled it into the rowboat alone out in the lake. Wasn't very easy either. They're big and heavy andthis things had 1/4 tank of water in it too.

Reminds me of me.. :mrgreen:

WAY to go George.. :drinks:

[Sam]

The way to clean up that burn is to do a water drip onto the burner plate. Flashes into steam and atomizes the oil as it does. Have to start smokey but soon as the plate is hot, start the water drip and Voilia.

Sam

[jlchucker]

The reason no one makes engine lathes in America (other than Hardinge) is because Americans stopped buying them. $18,000 for a Southbend 10L when it was last made?

Very few machine tools of any type are made in the USA today. We're really very lucky, as a country, that we haven't been faced with a World War II type situation in recent years. It would now be impossible to retool American industry again as quickly as they did in 1941, since most industrial machinery in use today is foreign made. These days the US would have to get most of its new industrial machinery from abroad. Think about what a job that alone would be.

[PatMarlin]

I wonder how many people are still around that could run those lathes compared to 1941 even if we had them here?

[PatMarlin]

The way to clean up that burn is to do a water drip onto the burner plate. Flashes into steam and atomizes the oil as it does. Have to start smokey but soon as the plate is hot, start the water drip and Voilia.

Sam

You've got my attention with that comment. Can you expand on that process Sam?..
:drinks:

[jlchucker]

I wonder how many people are still around that could run those lathes compared to 1941 even if we had them here?

Not very many--but in 1941 there probably weren't nearly as many as there were in 1942. The American education system back then must have taught better math skills than today. I recall back in the early 1980's I left a production control job at a machine tool company (just before the start of the end of that company) and took a job at a Government contracting office at the GE cannon factory in Burlington, VT. My dad, a longtime machinist at another machine tool company, asked me what it was like at that GE plant. I mentioned that they did a lot of jigbore work there. His comment was memorable: "What cemetery are they digging up all of those jigbore operators at?" His experience, typical in the machine tool industry, was that machinists did all of their own setups, and much of their own methods work--a practice that was quickly becoming very rare. Very few machinists even used calculators to do trig and geometric calculations, but all knew how to do them with paper and pencil. Real machinists of that kind today are rare--nearly extinct. In today's CNC world, programmers have replaced the machinists who did their own setups. Even still, in the US today, most CNC equipment is manufactured abroad. Procuring more quickly for new facilities if a huge industrial surge was required would be very difficult, since most US machinery producers have gone out of business. We need our industrial base back!

[PatMarlin]

Well fact is we've been sold out by politiains and attorneys that have robbed this country of it's independence, independence of the individual for greed and power plain and simple.

Maybe to late to turn back now as a nation, but as an individual we can fight for our own brick by brick at home. This is all that is left I'm afraid... :roll:

[Buckshot]

.............I'm afraid beyond basic arithmatic (and a little geometry) I'm no great shakes at math. I'm a real cheater too as I have a calculator that does chip load, feed, DOC, and etc. Punch in the material, cutter OD and number of flutes and voila', you have the feed in IPM and the spindle RPMs. Ditto the same thing for lathes. Of course there is still room in there to learn, and the recommendations are based on HSS and are fairly middle of the road.

Sometimes though the thing that makes a good machinist are the tricks and shortcuts they've learned. Like cutting morse tapers for instance. Instead of mucking around with sine bars or DI's you just set one up between centers. Put a straightedge in the tool holder, loosen the compound and slap it around until the straightedge lies against the MT, then cinch down the compound and you're ready to go. Of course your cutting tool has to be dead nuts on center, but it does anyway you do it.

Not that the above makes ME a good machinist, it just means I've read some good old machinists :-)

..................Buckshot

[georgeld]

Been awhile since my last visit. Been fighting that light coming down the tunnel. Everyone of them have just been more train wrecks for me.

aug 1st, 4yr g/f dumped me instead of going camping as planned. Found out I'd gotten some elsewhere. Oh well=happens they claim. get it while you can if you're single. Right??

Decided since even the ice and chow was packed to go anyway. She's cancelled out all summer and I've had enough. Gassed it up and headed to the mtns. Got 20.1 miles down the road and a huge cloud of smoke started blowing out the left fender well at 55mph pulling the trl. Just barely recognized it as smoke when flames replaced it. Started hunting for a place to abandon ship. Too close to the brush and grass and wasn't inside yet. Decided to make another 100yds or so to get along side an exit ramp where nothing could burn.

Once I got there, shut down quick, popped the hood on the way out. Ran around to see, too late. fire ball three feet in dia. About that time a trucker came running over with his f/e, two more got there shortly. I grabbed what was loose in the cab, then dropped the trl. Asked for help to push the trk away from the trl after I'd set the gas can, tool box and generator out. OTher's packed them away.
About that time the local vol's f/trk got there. Filled the dash full of water to kill the smoudering. Called for a camel ride home.

Engine has less than 3000miles on it. No one wants it even when I tell them I'll refund their money if the fire damaged it any. Believe the little plastic oil line from the sender to the gauge melted and blew oil on the hot exhaust pipe til everything was soaked in oil then caught fire. Can't prove it of course but, pretty good idea. Lost my **** this time, no coverage, just liability. It was an '88 with 257,000mi. Dumb idea it wasn't worth another $50 a month insurance. Hope no one else makes that mistake. Sure hurts the wallet.

Then last week the computer gave out. Haven't been able to get my links figured out. Had to ask on another board to get this one fwd'd so I could get back in here.

Ok: Traded a couple new blackhawks for a bunch of machinists tools.
Anyone need a small dial indicater? Inch mic, or maybe a depth mic? Anything else you need, mention it and I'll see if it's here. I've had most of these things already and don't need more. Let alone four more of some items.

Don't want to give them away, but, maybe we could swap something. Cash just gets spent around here.

I also need some info about high mileage GMC 6.5 diesels. Am looking at a 93 GMC with one and 325k. Price is within reach ,or close. More truck than I need but. Have elk and muley, antelope tags in my pocket and no way to drag camp up there. Can always find a new owner later once funding come's in for better matched equipment. I think at least. Sure not having any luck selling the ashes.

Was supposed to have a little minor surgery lastweek too. x rays show a nodule in my R lung. Has me spooked as Mom's side has lot's of cancer, got her in Dec. Now my BP is out of hand. Am sure that, burnt truck and such have a lot of bearings on the readings.

Told a buddy yesterday it's good thing I don't drink. I'd end up jailed over it.

Wish you all well, hope I'm the only one these trains hit.
George

[1hole]

"I think that some of our top military brass deserves some time in the brig for not buying American."

I feel confident in saying that such decisions are NOT made by anyone in uniform. It either came directly from congress OR the civilian "leadership" in the Pentagon, with the tacit approval of congress' oversight commitees.

[PatMarlin]

George- you're not alone with that BS. Had my share this year.

On the 6.2's and 6.5's I love em'and have been running those diesels for near 14 years.

That many miles on the original 6.5 is approaching the very top. If you buy it, plan on a new engine, injection pump, injectors, and other items soon depending on what's already been replaced.

I have an 84 GMC 4x4 with a custom built 6.2 and the an all computerized 6.5 in a 95 Chev extended cab 4x4 long bed. 250k miles on one and 200k on the latter.

THe rigs cost money to set up right, but once you do they are dependable. I get 21 mpg with my 95.

[georgeld]

Pat:
Thanks for the info. Second look it's a 2wd, gotta have a 4wd where I go elk hunting. So passed it up.
Still looking for a buyer/trader for the burnt trk yet. Have one offer of $500, thats not enough with a new engine that's not hurt. I'll pull that and all the gears and store 'em first.

Hope you're fresh out of train wrecks. Gets old fast don't it?

Did get good news about the lung though. "nodule they saw was just a "nipple shadow".
Lungs are clear, but, I do have gallstones. I can live with that. Sure was a relief to hear about the lungs though.

Take care,

[PatMarlin]

That's probably best anyway. A good 6.5 rebuild and all the rest could easily approach $6,000 and more.

The same vintage in a 350 gas engine pickup will get near that mileage on the hwy.