.375/.303

[HABCAN]

For a SHTF situation here on the prairies hunting cattle, not deer, or just for the fun and interest, LOL, I'm thinking of rebarreling a Lee-Enfield #4 to .375 Win. (or .303-based wildcat or mebbe just .38-55?). Have any of you (maybe in Oz, or Ellwod Epps fans here?) done such and could tell me/us about it? Thank you: idle minds would like to know.

[Outpost75]

The .375 Flanged 2-1/2" was a popular chambering for Lee Speed sporters in the African colonies before WW1. This link has good info: http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/nitro.html

The .375 Flanged Nitro Express (2 ½), as it is correctly called, was introduced as a black powder cartridge for use in single shots and double rifles.
The Nitro version was introduced in 1899.Dimensionally, it is a slightly longer version of the .303 straight case. The .405 Winchester shares the same basic brass; so the .375 Nitro Express, could also be viewed as the .405 Winchester shortened slightly, and necked to .375! At one point the round was even chambered by B.S.A. in their sporter series Lee-Enfield Rifles.We are proud to re-introduce this grand old British cartridge and give it a new home. We recommend you build a rifle on the stronger #4 action. When loaded with smokeless powder and housed in this action, the nitro express makes a very good cartridge for African plains game at moderate ranges. In North America it will make an awesome guide gun!It feeds very reliably from the Lee-Enfield Magazine. Bullets with a good ballistic coefficient and reasonable velocities make the cartridge clearly superior the .45-70!!! Check out the ballistics (http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/Ballistics.html) page and decide for yourself!!!Kynoch (http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/) is currently supplying new cartridges with the correct head-stamp or you can easily make your own from .405 Winchester brass.For our Canadian customers, John Rempel will be building Nitro Express Rifles in addition to the 45-70 conversions he is currently producing. He can also supply you with dies and brass. Call him for the details!!!Wikipedia description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_Flanged_Nitro_Express

Discussion on the ASSRA forum: http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1233469576

Discussion on the British Militaria form: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/19916#.WA47leUrLcs

[HABCAN]

Thank You!! Answers the question.

[Dan Cash]

I have a Styer rifle dated 1895 and built by Henry Atkin, Jarman Street, London that is chambered .375x2 1/2 in Flanged. I have shot it using blown out .303 and .30-40 Krag cartridges for cases. While they are too short and require turning rims, the rifle shoots extremely well and really puts the dropsy on a deer. A 270 grain bullet at 2000 fps is nothing to sneeze at and I think usable on all North American game.

[HABCAN]

99.9% shooting would be 'moderate loads' with the cast LEE C379-250-RF, PC'd. A few shots might be hot-rod jacketed 300-ish grains. Any advice as to barrel twist?

[Outpost75]

Standard twist for the .375 H&H is one turn in 14", which will stabilize a 300-grain bullet subsonic.

A 16" twist should do the same with a 270-grainer.

[HABCAN]

Thanks again.

[RustyReel]

Interesting. Wonder if that is a rebore JES would do on a No. 4??

[Blackwater]

Don't have a .375 but have a .35/.303 Malcolm Improved made by Tim Malcolm, or Goodsteel who used to post on this forum. It's pretty close, ballistically and capacity wise to the .358 Win., which has a great rep as a "thumper" on game, and a great cast bullet caliber. He had his dies ground to his specs, and tried to maximize the powder space in it, giving it just the right neck length, etc., and sharp shoulder and minimum body taper. He shot a couple or three deer with it, and I traded him out of it. I've always loved the old Brit Enfields, for one, and the .35 cal. has kind'a earned my respect too.

The big problem in caliber conversions on the old Enfields is getting them to feed, usually. In .375, I'm thinking I'd want a straight tapered case, and there's no doubt it'd be a whacker. Not a terribly long range candidate, but within 200 yds. or so, given good loads and familiarity with the trajectory, and good range estimation, it'd take just about anything in North America, probably, though I probably wouldn't want to hunt Griz or brown bears with it. Even then, though, a bullet that'll penetrate to the vitals, and a cool head and good shot placement would almost surely suffice. I have a sneaking suspicion that a straight tapered case to .375 bullets would likely feed a little easier and more smoothly, but there may still be some mods needed on the magazine's feed lips. I'd stack in a couple of spare mags just in case. They'll likely need to be proven one by one, and bent/modified as trial and effort and intuition indicates.

Ought to make up into a very useful and distinctive rifle. Bet you'll be the only one in deer camp with one!

[longbow]

Seems to me JeffinNZ has a .375/.303 or at least has written about them. You might try PM'ing him. Hmmmm, or maybe .303guy. I am pretty sure it was one of the two. A search may find the posts.

I was thinking about that myself ord go straight wall and make a .44 cal. That should work too as I read an article on making .44 Rhino from .30-40 Krag brass.

Nothing wrong with the .375 though or the .35. I'd like one myself.

Lee Enfields have been converted to 444 Marlin. .45-70 and .458 x 2 inch as well. I had been thinking about 444 Marlin but brass is rare and expensive. Best use something more readily available like .303 British brass.

Longbow

[MT Gianni]

Interesting. Wonder if that is a rebore JES would do on a No. 4??
I don't think JES rebores military rifles any more.

[longbow]

Not sure if there is enough meat in a Lee Enfield .303 barrel to go to .375. Seems to me that the .35 was a rebore.

[iomskp]

The 375 2 1/2 is my next project gun after I finish the 300 sherwood, I am going to use a 98 Mauser not an enfield for the donor rifle. The 375 2 1/2 is enough gun for anything in Australia from Asian Buffalo to pigs and wild cattle.

Regards Trevor

[samari46]

Or you could do a 37 rimmed, which is nothing more than the 303 case necked up to 375 and no other changes. Frank

[longbow]

Found one thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?63406-303-375-(375-303)-who-shoots-one

and another:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?111499-smle-conversion-to-35-303

and another:

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/30335-no1-mk3-progress-report_topic4244.html

Kind of a mix but a fair bit of info there and a good read.

They both look good to me and I wish I had the money to play. Let us know what you do in the end.

Longbow

[HABCAN]

Looks like, if I ever get $$ for a Round Tuit, it'll be a straight taper using the .303 Brit brass as a base, and a new barrel, 14" twist, 18" carbine w/brake a la my .303179411:...........yeah, I'm a lefty.

[longbow]

Now that looks pretty nice!

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK: I have a #4 Mk1* Long Branch that JES rebored to .35-303 for me. I haven't shot it yet because the project got shelved, but will soon.

He can also do .375-303 and I believe .400-303. These are all done on Standard Military barrels and there is plenty of meat to do it.

If you are serious about doing this I'd give him a call at 541-942-1342 and talk to him about the job. It will cost you $225-250 + shipping to have it done,,, and he does excellent work. The barreled action will be returned to you correctly head spaced and ready to finish and stock.

Randy

[ascast]

my 2 cents years ago I bought a .303 that had been converted to .410 smoothbore for guard duty. Turns out a .444 Marlin fits just nicely in chamber. Use this info as you will

[Von Gruff]

I have done both 375-303 and a 405 on the long Lee action and they both turned out very well indeed

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=260603&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[BigEyeBob]

In the throws of getting all the bits together now to build one on a Le1 action .
Dies are on thier way from CH4D , barrel from Sprinter , Rear and front sights will be from Recknagle .Havent sourced a stock yet but will be talking to Ken Davis in Perth.Cases from Bertram ,and Woodliegh 270gn RNSP projectiles.
Im actually buliding a x 375 2 1/2" flanged nitro express to clear the air .Different beast .

[RustyReel]

You guys have really got me thinking about one of these. I "need" a project and I have a sported #4 that could use some barrel work. I hate, however, to spend 90 bucks on a set of dies. So, got to thinking, why couldn't a set of H&H dies be used to neck size the brass and then seat the boolit? The H&H cases is much wider than the 303 case so shouldn't size the case any other than the neck. This is a case I made from a full size set of H&H dies. Bullet needs to be seated a little deeper and the flare need to be removed (crimped). I think a set of used H&H dies (which are relatively cheap) ground down a bit could be used as neck sizing and seating dies. Any thoughts??

179865

[Blackwater]

It's a possible idea, but I suspect opening the neck will thin the case necks enough that it'd be a little "iffy" that it'd work really well. But if the case necks come out thinner (that expansion HAS to spread that brass out over a much bigger area, so gets thinner), maybe turning/sanding down the expander ball might make it work. Would likely be worth a try, I think, and I believe it could be made to work.

[4060MAY]

the old name for this is 38-50 Remington, My Hepburn is chambered in this caliber.....1-12 twist, for up to 380 gr bullets

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seems like it should work. I know that F/L sizing of the .303 cases is a loser and yields about 2-3 reloads so by simply neck sizing those cases they should last indefinitely.

I do think that springing for a Lee Collet Neck Sizer for something in the .375 range might be a good investment, as those dies work the case mouths less than anything else out there. Lee makes one for .375 H&H and with a little shimming it probably will work just fine.

Your Boolits are purty!

Randy

[longbow]

I wouldn't have thought there was enough meat in the military barrel to bore to 0.375 and beyond. Live and learn. Unfortunately the link Von Gruff posted doesn't work for me. I'd like to see those guns.

I think a .375 or .405 would be pretty slick indeed!

I recall an article on a handgun chambered for a .44 (.44 Rhino) based on a shortened and blown out .30-40 Krag cartridge so .303 British could get a similar treatment but that might be pushing it a bit far in a stock lee Enfield barrel.

I was toying with the idea of a .444 Marlin conversion of a Lee Enfield but figured it would require a new barrel. Does anyone know? I have seen Lee Enfields in .444, .45-70 and .458x2". Not sure if they were rebarrelled or not though.

Also the .444 conversion lacks appeal due to the cost and low availability of .444 brass.

Blown out .303 British brass now that's another thing entirely. I hadn't thought of that. There are a lot more choices of moulds and boolit styles for a .35 but I would lean to the .375. Not sure why but I like it. Blown out to .44 also has its appeal because I have a variety of .44 moulds.

One problem for us Canucks using JES is shipping across the border. Not sure how that is done these days or if even possible... legally that is. Guns and gun parts being shipped across the border is a problem.

Longbow

[Von Gruff]

I can't see, it delete topic.

คาสิโนออนไลน์ (https://www.928betwin.com/%e0%b9%80%e0%b8%ab%e0%b8%95%e0%b8%b8%e0%b8%9c%e0%b 8%a5%e0%b8%84%e0%b8%b2%e0%b8%aa%e0%b8%b4%e0%b9%82% e0%b8%99%e0%b8%ad%e0%b8%ad%e0%b8%99%e0%b9%84%e0%b8 %a5%e0%b8%99%e0%b9%8c/)

It still shows for me

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=260603&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

I did another Lee Speed stock for a 1896 Magazine Lee Enfield which has a slightly heavier barrel and it is getting bored out to 375 and should be done soon when he gets some other projects out of the way.

Here is the same thread here on CB although it is my usual long screed on the stocking job untill I get to the barrel work.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?270931-The-400-Lee-Speed-project-rifle-(and-friend)

This is the 400 Lee Speed (405 Win)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400%20LS_zpstzibxghn.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/400%20LS_zpstzibxghn.png.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1998_zpsiuhosrab.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo1998_zpsiuhosrab.jpg.html)
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo2002_zpsecxastdg.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/Photo2002_zpsecxastdg.jpg.html)

And this was the post where I finished my part with the 375-303
I had got the 375-303 finished as far as I am going with it so it can be returned to its home base for sights and blue. The blank didn't have a lot of grain definition but the alkanet oil has bought a subtle tone that has made it rather nice
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/405%20Krag%20Enfield/3_zps8u029dzn.png (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/405%20Krag%20Enfield/3_zps8u029dzn.png.html)


http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=260603&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[longbow]

I am liking those guns! Beautiful wood on the 405.

[charlie b]

Does the larger round still feed through the magazine correctly and does the magazine still hold the same number of rounds?

[Von Gruff]

If you read through the link http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-(and-friend) (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?270931-The-400-Lee-Speed-project-rifle-(and-friend))to page five you will see that it holds 5 +1 and I modded the mag to a center feed. Not a difficult job with the mag insert holding the rear of the cartridge and the new follower center feeding. I have a single pop rivet to hold the insert in place (through the original drain hole so in about 10 minutes I could return the mag to original configuration

[charlie b]

I did see the one you modified in that thread, did not know if it applied to all or not.

[303Guy]

38 Hawking. Or 375-303. A die is needed to iron out the shoulder thickness variances. The case body remains unchanged up to the shoulder and the neck is basically parallel from where the shoulder used to be.

The largest one can take the 303 case is 41 cal before getting a wasp waist. One can go to 44 mag but the case taper at the web will look a bit funny. I have sized cases that large to see if it would work and they will.

My preference for the 375 is a compromise between boolit diameter, weight and velocity and recoil.

JeffinNZ sent me a 38 Hawking case and it is "just right". I have it somewhere but finding it could be a problem right now. I do have a pic of it which I shall endeavor to find.

I must say I find a it difficult to choose between a 40-303 and a 375-303. Perhaps the solution is to have both as Von Gruff has done? (Awesome rifles, Von Gruff).

I personally think the old pre clip charger Lee Enfield's are better suited to these interesting calibers but only because of the cool factor.

[303Guy]

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/standard.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/standard.jpg.html)

I think that's the 416 Strauss?

Here is what a un-fire formed 44-303 would look like. Of course the case can be expanded further back with the right geometry expander.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-478F.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-478F.jpg.html)



And finally the 38 Hawking.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/JeffinNZcartridges.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/JeffinNZcartridges.jpg.html)


I would think that since the case body is unchanged in the 375-303 the magazine should work just fine. I wonder how far out one could seat those boolits? The magazine can handle quite long.

Because there is no shoulder to headspace on, I would load to a pressure below normal working pressure and lube the case to prevent case stretch. Mind you, milder pressure would likely eliminate case stretch anyway. I would also go the paper patch route.

[skeettx]

Wow, neat stuff, but I will still use my Marlin 38-55 Cowboy Lever gun
or my Win 94 Bigbore in 375 Win
Mike

[rundownbear]

I have NEVER been a fan of the Enfields...until I laid eyes on that 40e. That is one beautiful rifle!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Run down: Look at these. There is a lot of room for interpretation with these guns.

The first Pic is some High Dollar English Sporting Rifles in .303 British. The second is my #4 Mk1 redo which is an excellent shooter, I paid $200 for it and I've got about $300 total in it,,, and the third is a Custom by Lon Paul converted to .348 Winchester, no idea on the cost but it doesn't look cheap. There are also some low buck .45-70 conversions out there, the Gibbs Summit being one.

There is nothing wrong with the Enfield Action as long as it is matched to a compatible cartridge, and there are plenty of them that will work just fine.. It is one of the most reliable actions ever made and .303's have taken everything on earth and to think they are inadequate is foolish. Nobody is volunteering to stand in front of one. "

Old," does not mean "useless." The .30-30 came from the same era and nobody is calling it Obsolete, and going on a Hunt with a classic rifle would give me a lot more satisfaction than shooting something with a New Inexpensive Ruger American Rifle or a Savage or a Mossberg, or a Winchester, or Remington. These guns have no character, they are just guns. Those ones below do have character and plenty of it!

But the best looking guns are usually the High Dollar British Sporting Rifles .

Churchill of London will make you one any way you want it,,,starting at $15K!

Randy

[Idaho Mule]

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. As a young man, I grew up hunting with a 303 SMLE (not sure of numbers and marks stuff) but it was sporterized by Santa Fe Arms. Anyway, I have always loved the 303 round, and rifles. My son now hunts with my earlier rifle, he has killed several deer (3) and elk (5) with that rifle. I went over the edge when Ruger brought out the #1 in 303 and got one. That little #1 is very sweet and is now accounting for quite a bit of table fare. I often read through old P.O. Ackly stuff and muse about the Elwood Epps versions of 303 being necked up and down. A while back I even necked one up to 35 and seated a cast bullet in it, nice looking cartridge. I am now thinking the 375 version might be the way to go. I do have a "spare" SMLE and an open mind. Now I just may have to contact JES. Thanks guys. JW

[samari46]

I have made mention of the 37 rimmed which is the 303 case necked up to hold the bullet. There is a very tiny section which is where the shoulder after being expanded meets the body of the case. So the body of the converted retaing all of the dimensions basic case and the only part of the case that is changed is the neck. There is a small shoulder which remains after the neck is expanded for .375 diameter bullets. Frank

[John Taylor]

This sounds very close to the Winchester 38-70 which is a 405 with a slight bottle neck down to .378. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-72_Winchester

[sharps4590]

Didn't Waters do something like that back in the late 60's or early 70's with an old Westley Richards? Seems he called it a "375 Express"?

[BigEyeBob]

The .375 Flanged 2-1/2" was a popular chambering for Lee Speed sporters in the African colonies before WW1. This link has good info: http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/nitro.html

The .375 Flanged Nitro Express (2 ½), as it is correctly called, was introduced as a black powder cartridge for use in single shots and double rifles.
The Nitro version was introduced in 1899.

Dimensionally, it is a slightly longer version of the .303 straight case. The .405 Winchester shares the same basic brass; so the .375 Nitro Express, could also be viewed as the .405 Winchester shortened slightly, and necked to .375! At one point the round was even chambered by B.S.A. in their sporter series Lee-Enfield Rifles.

We are proud to re-introduce this grand old British cartridge and give it a new home. We recommend you build a rifle on the stronger #4 action. When loaded with smokeless powder and housed in this action, the nitro express makes a very good cartridge for African plains game at moderate ranges. In North America it will make an awesome guide gun!

It feeds very reliably from the Lee-Enfield Magazine. Bullets with a good ballistic coefficient and reasonable velocities make the cartridge clearly superior the .45-70!!! Check out the ballistics (http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/Ballistics.html) page and decide for yourself!!!

Kynoch (http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/) is currently supplying new cartridges with the correct head-stamp or you can easily make your own from .405 Winchester brass.

For our Canadian customers, John Rempel will be building Nitro Express Rifles in addition to the 45-70 conversions he is currently producing. He can also supply you with dies and brass. Call him for the details!!!

Wikipedia description: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_Flanged_Nitro_Express

Discussion on the ASSRA forum: http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1233469576


Discussion on the British Militaria form: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/19916#.WA47leUrLcs


no need for a No4 action at all , BSA built sporting rifles on the earlier a mle , le1 and mki ,mk ii and mkiii actions in 375 x 2 1/ 2" , 7mm , 8mm . All within the pressure limits of the actions .
Just dont need 2500 - 3000 fps velocity. I have 2 x 303 sporters built by BSA before 1900 that are in excellent condition and accurate . My reloads chronograph between 1920 and 2150fps .