trouble with fillout

[MeestaSparkle]

THis is my first experience with an iron mold. My only other one is a lee 9mm, which I've only used a couple times so I'm really new to this.

I am having trouble getting my lyman 314299 to cast properly. I keep getting poor fillout. I started with .22lr lead, added some of that plus metal I got on a group buy here. I scrubbed it with degreaser (brake cleaner), acetone, etc... It just won't fill out right, I keep getting wrinkles in the bullets. I've cleaned out my pot, cleaned my lead again... I don't think it's the lead because the 9mm mold fills out ok. I've tried casting temps of anywhere from 600 to 850 degrees. Tried the molds from cold to very hot. I've also added tin to try that, and it did little.

So... I am at a loss. I guess my question is... I wanted to try lightly sand blasting the mold to see if there was something bad hardened on the surface. Would this ruin my mold or would it be an ok thing to try?

Any other ideas?

Thanks

[Orygun]

Sounds like a cold mold (if it's really clean). Did you smoke it? I find things work well when I preheat the mold setting it on a metal plate on a single burner hot plate before casting and usually get good boolits in a few throws.

Are you using a bottom pour or ladle?

[Orygun]

Sorry, double post.

[sundog]

Is that 314299 new? Does it have a thin or thick sprue plate?

if it is new, how many boolits have you cast.

What is the temperature of your melt?

What casting technique are you using? Bottom pour, dipper, or ladle.

Here are some things that could help. Heavy sprue plates worker better than thin, but neither at all if not up to temperature. The hole in the sprue plate, if too small, can affect the quality of the boolit be reducing flow depending on the technique employed. Lightly chamfering the block mating edges improves venting, especially under the sprue plate. The key word is 'lightly'. Some moulds, even when clean prefer a touch of smoke or release agent. If you use a product such as Midway Drop Out, do NOT spray directly onto the blocks. Moisten a q-tip and swab the cavities. If you smoke the mould, do so with cardboard or wood stick matches (non water proof type with no paraffin) or a butane lighter.

[Trez Hensley]

In response to your sand blasting question, I'd say that it will most likely ruin your mold.

[MeestaSparkle]

I bought it brand new, have tried casting maybe 200 bullets with it.

I have a PID temperature controller, and have tried it at 50 degree increments from 600 to 850.

I have also tried preheating the mold to various temperatures. Less precise control, but anywhere from cold to way too hot has been tried.

It is a brand new lee pro 4-20 bottom pour pot. I also tried various flow rates and doing the "pressure fill" by holding the mold against the spout.

I don't know what thick or thin is, but the sprue plate is 0.175" thick. The hole in the sprue plate is 0.15" in diameter.


I am curious about one problem I would have occasionally.... A few times the metal would go in and just ramp around the bottom and come back out the top (at least that's what it seemed like). Other times it would just trap air and the lead would hesitate before going into the mold. This wasn't super common but it happened a few times.

I'll try smoking the molds. I tried a dry graphite spray before but it only seemed to make things worse.

[Boerrancher]

I am not a mold mechanic, because I have always had molds that worked well, just lucky I guess. It sounds like by the "one problem I would have occasionally..." I would say that your mold is not venting properly or you are trying to fill it to quickly and the mold is not hot enough. Just a guess as I said I am no mold mechanic.

Best Wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Trez Hensley]

Those last two paragraphs seem to point to bad venting. I will defer to the more experienced guys as to how to fix this problem. This is what Sundog was referring to when he talked about "Lightly chamfering the block mating edges".

If the air cannot get out of the mold, you will never get good fillout. From what I remember of my manufacturing engineering degree/school days, this is true of high pressure (thousands of PSI) plastics injection molds, it must be true of our thick material (high viscosity/lead) low pressure molding.

What do the experts say??

[Ricochet]

Before anything else, degrease that mould really thoroughly. I suspect it's still got some oil in the cavity.

[MeestaSparkle]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I am going to take a carbide scribe and run it along all the vent lines, and see if that helps. When you guys say "lightly chamfer" can you give me a more quantitative value so I know what "lightly" means... are we talking 0.030" or 0.045", 0.1", etc... Or maybe even post a picture, that would help a lot too.

I will degrease again too, I don't understand how there could be any there though. Went to town on it the last time with acetone and a brush... soaked it and blew it off with compressed air a few times too. Can you guys run me through what you do to degrease?

[sagamore-one]

Are you trying to describe a fillout problem or a wrinkle problem ?? I suspect Mr. Riccochet is on the right track as I had to degrease my new Lyman 311284 numerous times just to get started making bad boolits. Brake parts cleaner, throttle body cleaner, alcohol,Dawn dish soap.. I ended up boiling the blocks in water to get them clean. Lyman must not want their moulds to rust in storage. While I was struggling to get good boolits, a local fellow caster wanted me to try using a ladle with a spout, said he had trouble making long skinny boolits with a bottom pour pot.
Lots of variables... hang in there.

[dubber123]

Here is how I clean a new mould: Get the tap water running HOT, squirt some dish detergent all over the mould, sprinkle a LIBERAL amount of a cleaner like Comet or Bon-Ami, (abrasive) scrubber on the soap.

Scrub the crap out of the mould with this soap/abrasive cleaner slurry with a toothbrush. Rinse well. Heat the mould VERY well to get all the water/remaining oil out. Oils seem to smoke at about 450* mould temp. Lube the mould, cast on the hot side.

Smaller boolits in bigger iron moulds can require more heat. Casting too slow can aggravate the situation. Sometimes you just have to move your A$$. Good luck!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi,Wrinkles are usaully caused by a cold mold or traces of oil, grease or some lube still somewhere in the mold. I store my blocks with Cleanzoil on them. It is also petroleum based like 3-in-one oil etc. All of it has to be absolutely removed or I get wrinkles and "raisins". I do this by soaking the blocks in paint thinner or acetone; the fumes of either are not good for you so do the cleaning/soaking in a well ventilated area. Brushing the solvent into the nooks and crannies helps. Then dry the blocks by wiping with a soft cloth and then dry them with a hair dryer on high. Then preheat them on an electric range burner at moderate heat...around 4-5 for around 15-20 minutes befor starting to cast. It may be that there is residual lube/oil hiding in the sprue plate hold down screw or under the plate itself, or in and around the dowel pins and/or the dowel pin holes. Depending on the alloy of the melt metal, 700-750 degress would be an adequate starting temperature. If you preheat the mold it helps to get any oil burned off/out and casting continues to do that as well. Smoking the mold can help, but don't use a candle as that soot may contain oil. Use a wooden match. It is not the mold that is at fault, so be patient and it will come around. Hope that this helps. LLS

[GabbyM]

Those dimensions you mentioned for a chamfer are scaring me. .03 is about 1/32 of an inch. That would send a mould back to the shop. You want to break the edge not chamfer it. When it stops being sharp you're done. When you can see the flat you put on you're done. .005” would be what you're looking for. Careful not to nick the corners of the cavity or you'll have little lead nipples on all your bullets.

Have you tried loosening the spur plate a little?

I broke in a Saeco 6mm mould last night. Took at least an hour of pouring 850* lead in it before it would make bullets. That was after soaking in alcohol for a couple hours , carburetor cleaner then on to a hot plate on medium heat for a while. I see that as about typical for a new one. After I got some good bullets I had a beer while things cooled off then started casting at 750* F. Now I'm happy.

[Brownie]

I soak my molds with 3in1 oil to store them. I just give the mold a good spray wash with brake parts cleaner and it will cast good bullets right from the start. also I find short fat bullets like .45 cal need to have the lead poured in slowly or it often swerl around and leave hollow spots on the base but a long thin bullet like 314299 needs the lead poured in faster. if I pour it in slow it leaves wrinkles length ways on the bullet even when the mold is hot and clean.

[JerryW]

Degrease it boil in soapy water, try actone, cab cleanet, other things. I'll bet it still has grease in the pores. JerryW

[Echo]

Bless your hearts - I don't store my molds in oil. I just stack 'em on the shelf, and they have never rusted.

Desert Dweller EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA PAtron
O&U

[Calamity Jake]

Also make the fill hole in the spru plate bigger, that .150Ø is to small them long skinny cavities likes to be filled fast, make em .160-.165Ø. Remove the plate then using a drill press and a 90° countersink, as low RPM as the drill press will go and some kind of oil(anything) then sand the bottom of the plate to remove the burr caused by the countersink.
Note: if you can backup the plate with a piece of flat alum. it will reduce the burr

[montana_charlie]

I'll try smoking the molds. I tried a dry graphite spray before but it only seemed to make things worse.
If you shot spray-on graphite into the cavity, and then heated it to casting temperature, you will probably have trouble cleaning it out.
I made that same mistake, and had to use high magnification to know when I finally got all of it.
It hides in the corners...and is almost impossible to see against the iron.

As for 'breaking' the top edges of your mould...
Breaking the edge on both halves should create a groove just like a face vent.
You want to remove the least amount of iron that you can.

Do the corner on one mould half...from the cavity to the edge, on both sides of the cavity...then close the blocks together. You will see that you have created a tiny 'vent line' similar to those in the mould faces.
If doing one mould half creates a line as big as the face vents, stop there.
If the new groove is (say) half the size of a face vent, then do the other mould half.

A loose sprue plate will also allow air to vent if you don't press it down too hard while filling...or if you take pressure off immediately after filling, and before the sprue begins to harden.
CM

[Shotgun Luckey]

HEY!! I may have finally found my answer....

My new RCBS mould has been giving me fits...I can get the bullet to filleverywhere except the corners of the base. I'm going to try loosening the sprue plate a bit..

Thanks

[cowboy junky]

Bless your hearts - I don't store my molds in oil. I just stack 'em on the shelf, and they have never rusted.

Desert Dweller EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA PAtron
O&U

That's an AZ thing.........I bet they would rust in no time in Charleston SC with the high humidity and salt in the air. I guess it depends on where you live and store them.

[Tom Herman]

My Lyman 429421 came in, and it wouldn't cast worth a flip either.
What I had to do was to get the mould warm, and burn off all the oil in it.
Once the oil was gone, the mould started working well.
It took literally dozens of pours to get to this point!
The big four cavity monster has a "sweet spot" where it works well: Too hot or too cold, and you get poor fillout and boolits.
My seasoned and broken in .45 LC mould (also Lyman) just needs to get up to temp, and it casts and casts.....
Good Luck with your mould. Each one has its own character. Don't give up. Stick with it, and find what it takes to make that mould work.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom



QUOTE=MeestaSparkle;350716]THis is my first experience with an iron mold. My only other one is a lee 9mm, which I've only used a couple times so I'm really new to this.

I am having trouble getting my lyman 314299 to cast properly. I keep getting poor fillout. I started with .22lr lead, added some of that plus metal I got on a group buy here. I scrubbed it with degreaser (brake cleaner), acetone, etc... It just won't fill out right, I keep getting wrinkles in the bullets. I've cleaned out my pot, cleaned my lead again... I don't think it's the lead because the 9mm mold fills out ok. I've tried casting temps of anywhere from 600 to 850 degrees. Tried the molds from cold to very hot. I've also added tin to try that, and it did little.

So... I am at a loss. I guess my question is... I wanted to try lightly sand blasting the mold to see if there was something bad hardened on the surface. Would this ruin my mold or would it be an ok thing to try?

Any other ideas?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

[Shiloh]

I re-cut the vent lines on a old Lyman 35891 148 gr wadcutter mold purchased 2nd hand. There was some light rust on it that cleaned up nicely except for some of the vent lines. I chased them out with a #50 round bottom engraving tool. Now it casts flawlessly. Any hard pointed punch would probably work just as well.

Shiloh

[DLCTEX]

I absolutely would not sandblast a mold. You would be roughing the surface and making sticky boolits problems a certainty, If you want to remove material from the face of the cavities, use a boolit cast in the cavity, put a screw in the center of the base, remove the head, and chuck it in a varible speed drill. Use a light application of Comet, Bon Ami, or whitening tooth paste and close the mold on a spinning boolit. Smoke the mold and spin again to see if all areas are cleaned up. This will clean up the cavity and make it drop boolits like you never saw. DALE