94pb / 2sn / 4sb -- Is This A Good Alloy?

[Landy]

The alloy calculator in Reloader's Reference says that this is what I get if I combine two recent lead buys sweetened with one bar each of the 50/50 solder of which I've a small stash.

Newbie with just two Lee molds so far TL.452-230TC for .45ACP and .358-200RF for reduced loads in several .35 rifles, and per the link I'm going to have to try it as a heavy in .357.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXrn3Tq9XDpd2jfkxkXRtakd3O2OACONG

From what I've read and watched I look to go without the gas check up to 1500fps. Doable?

[jmort]

I want the tin and antimony to be balanced. So 96/2/2 would be real good. And 94/3/3 perfect. What you are proposing would work well.

[dragon813gt]

Tin and Antimony should be balanced. That being said you won't have any issues w/ that alloy. I shot 96/3/1 as an all purpose alloy for years.

[Chill Wills]

What is the reason the Sb and Sn need to be balanced? I have seen info on problems with alloy when the %Sn exceeds the % Sb. But why balanced?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why Balanced ?
because of toughness.

toughness and hardness are two different things.

This is a good read.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?40767-Toughness-Of-Lead-tin-antimony-Alloys

[runfiverun]

that would be the old ww alloy with tin thrown in it from the day's of old.
if you got more soft lead I'd cut that alloy by 25-30% but if you don't it'll shoot just like it did in the 80-90's.

[Chill Wills]

Thank you Jon.
I have read that.

But that really does not address the fact that some lesser tin value can't be just as good for many applications. I am vet of the old ago "cast and shoot straight wheel weights" era. In those days I found ways to make the mold fill out and only when I felt spendy did I lay out $$ and effort to add tin.

Not saying anything is wrong about equal amounts.. not at all.
Just saying Why is it stated above "Tin and Antimony should be balanced."

If you have a good alloy like the OP does, why make him think he need to go out and get more tin for what he is doing?

I don't think it is at all a requirement for successful cast bullet shooting.

[Chill Wills]

that would be the old ww alloy with tin thrown in it from the day's of old.
if you got more soft lead I'd cut that alloy by 25-30% but if you don't it'll shoot just like it did in the 80-90's.

We posted at the same time. BINGO
My thought too.

If it were my alloy (for my needs) I would cut it with soft Pb as much as 1 to 1 to make 97-1-2 Pb-Sn-Sb
But a stiffer mix may be what other like. All fine with me.

I do not agree that casting bullets requires Balanced to work. Sorry, not trying to start anything. Just putting out info.

[OS OK]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

The matrix is a little hard to explain without percentage charts like you'll find in this on line book...it's a 'Casters Bible".

I suggest you read it...you can't find a better reference.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

I do not agree that casting bullets requires Balanced to work. Sorry, not trying to start anything. Just putting out info.

No one posted that, if fact, the two members that posted prior to you, stated unbalanced SN-SB alloys will work well, after they posted about balanced alloys.

I just posted a link to the "why".
Now, is toughness is better? it's all about the application, some of that is talked about in the link. I shoot all kinds of unknown alloys (that I've measured BHN, so as, to adjust hardness if necessary, but BHN doesn't tell you anything about the alloy and it's toughness), that I've got from misc unknown scrap and it's just fine for plinking or target shooting, and in those situations, it seems like cheapest could very well be the best, right?

But...I find it valuable to have knowledge...if I were to want the toughest boolit possible, without knowledgeable threads like the one I linked to, I might think that the hardest alloy would be the toughest.

[Chill Wills]

I want the tin and antimony to be balanced. So 96/2/2 would be real good. And 94/3/3 perfect. What you are proposing would work well.


Tin and Antimony should be balanced. That being said you won't have any issues w/ that alloy. I shot 96/3/1 as an all purpose alloy for years.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chill Wills http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3820680#post3820680)
SNIP...

I do not agree that casting bullets requires Balanced to work. Sorry, not trying to start anything. Just putting out info.




No one posted that, if fact, the two members that posted prior to you, stated unbalanced SN-SB alloys will work well, after they posted about balanced alloys.

Sorry but I was responding to what they did post. Yes they also said other alloys work too. I was just asking for them to respond about their point of view about balanced alloy.

I have read and reread these posts a few times and I agree with everyone. It is my intent to point out as others have that simple or unknown alloy can work. More expense does not always equal better outcome.

Sorry to get you going if I was not clear. I try hard write with everyones dignity in mind and not condensed to anyone. Respectfully, Michael Rix

[RogerDat]

Balanced allows the Sn & Sb to bond with each other which enhances what the two bring to the alloy. Total greater than sum of it's parts. That said if you only need the tin to help provide reduced surface tension for better flow less tin works fine. Lot of folks just add 1/2 - 1 percent tin to COWW's and go to town.

For an all purpose alloy the stuff with a balance at between 2 and 3 percent Sn/Sb is a good value and performance point. Good for rifles and not wasting a whole lot of alloy when doing pistol. On the other hand lot of pistols will do just fine with 50/50 WW/Pb + between 1% and 2% Sn. You can get about the same pistol material by cutting 3/3/94 with plain about 60/40 or even 50/50 for some molds/calibers. Not sure how that would work with some of the auto loaders but for 38 and 45 seems to work fine. I would think with PC and a gas check it would handle some fairly stout pistol use such as 44 or 357 mag but I tend to use everything from Lyman #2 or that cut 50/50 with Pb or some 2/2/96 I have.

Point being you have a lot of leeway until you are trying for max performance (accuracy, expansion, range etc.) Hard enough to not lead barrel, soft enough to seal the bore and not scrape the rifling off and there you go! Start with a modest batch, if they shoot well make a whole bunch more just like it. If not re-melt and re-formulate the alloy a touch. Repeat as desired or required.

[Landy]

Thanks, information and the linked Fryxell and Toughness.

I'd read Fryxell and I thought that 94/2/4 was close enough to his COWW + tin general purpose alloy.

The 50/50 I have a small supply of, lead or antimonial lead I have to buy at retail.

One more bar of solder per pot will put it at very, very close to 92/4/4; which is as close as I can easily get to the consensus recommendation. This will be closing in on Lyman #2, and that can't be a bad sign.

[leadbutt]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chill Wills http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3820680#post3820680)
SNIP...

I do not agree that casting bullets requires Balanced to work. Sorry, not trying to start anything. Just putting out info.




Sorry but I was responding to what they did post. Yes they also said other alloys work too. I was just asking for them to respond about their point of view about balanced alloy.

I have read and reread these posts a few times and I agree with everyone. It is my intent to point out as others have that simple or unknown alloy can work. More expense does not always equal better outcome.

Sorry to get you going if I was not clear. I try hard write with everyones dignity in mind and not condensed to anyone. Respectfully, Michael Rix

ROFL!!! You didn't get him going. That takes a lil bit more then that. TRUST ME, I have 10 infraction points to prove it!!

L. Bottoms

[runfiverun]

you don't need a balanced alloy for it to have toughness nor hardness.
2% tin and 4% antimony is probably some of the toughest alloy available.
if it had about 0.3% copper added to it, it would be just about perfect as far as a resistant alloy without going to far one way or the other.
it will resist shear and slumping better than just about any other practical alloy available.
it's not necessary for almost every application but it is easily producible and it doesn't break the bank to make.
1 part tin to 2 parts antimony is actually a very good ratio to follow.

[MaryB]

I cast and shoot this exact alloy for targets. Now if I was casting a hunting bullet the mix will be more critical but paper doesn't care! Long as it is hard enough to not come apart when fired, has enough tin to fill the mold well... go for it! Hunting I try for 92/4/4 if I can or even 90/5/5 and that has worked well from my type 53 on deer with good expansion, and as a reduced power load in my 223 for squirrels and rabbits.