Alloys

[Chuckm]

Well I finally have gotten around to setting up to do some more casting and have a few questions on my "alloys".

I just read the 12 page article on using a spread sheet for getting a certain alloy for a certain hardness, but this assumes that you know what the composition is of your "alloys" to start with, and have a question:

I have a collection of 30+ years worth of ingots that I can say are either "Lead" ingots. And another bunch (+200Lbs) for COWW/SOWW ingots. When I got the WW I did not know that the different types were not the same alloy so just melted the all down into 1 Lb ingots. The Lead I have kept seperate as I do shoot a couple of muzzle loaders and needed "pure lead" for them, so I did not mix them up!

I would like to find out how to raise the hardness of the cast boolets to something around 12-14 bhn by using a coffee can full of shot from broken down shotshells. I was told/read that the shot had a high amount of antimony and can be use to raise the hardness of an alloy to a point.

I have a LBT tester so can cast some with a pot full of "mix Nr. one" and then get the LBT number. If it is lower than I want, what amount of "shot" would I use to raise the hardness?

I don't what to just throw in a hand full and see what happens as it is not an large supply of shot.

Not knowing what the mixture of Lead/Tin/Antimony I have in my "collection" I don't know where to start for a set of numbers!

Thanks for any help,

Chuck McClurg
Carson City, NV

[Tenbender]

Get you some linotype lead off of eBay. Mix COWW at a 5 lb. to lino 2 lb. mix. That should put it right about 11 or 12 bhn. That works good for me with a pretty hot plain base boolit. I might add. From that point it doesn't take much lino to really raise the hardness. Another 1/2 lb lino will move you up to a 14 or 15. Now it will take a couple weeks to harden so don't check it soon as cast. If you water drop that mix from the mold you will have around a 25 bhn. You can't push that through your sizer.

[toallmy]

Your coww soww mix is probably 12-14 as is , or close enough , if you are casting for mild handgun loads you can mix 50/50 with the softer lead and still be fine . If you get good fit Boolit to bore hardness becomes less of a problem , up until you start to get the pressure behind them . Are you trying to get the hardness up for rifle loading or magnums , just curious what are you planning to cast for ? I am a new caster so don't take my word as gospel .

[toallmy]

See I told you don't take my word as gospel , hahahy

[Chuckm]

Thanks for the info, but I don't want to have to buy Linotype evry time I want to do up a mix.

I just want to know how approxmatly how much shot to use and how much it will raise the hardness.

I am going to cast for .303 and 8mm with some 30-06. My .30 mould is for a gas check, but I have not found a .323 mould for 8mm yet so don't know which it will be, gas check or not!

Thanks,

[Ken in Iowa]

I would just use the alloy calculator. Estimate the weight of SOWW and COWW in your batch and add shot and tin.

If you would like, I'll calculate a batch for you.

[bumpo628]

Download my alloy calculator (see link in sig.)
Input the coww/soww mix as coww (w/ 0.5% Sn & 3% Sb) since they were older wheel weights and likely had a higher Sb%.
There are two entries for lead shot and the alloys depend on the shot size.
Calculate different mixes to get close to your desired hardness, test the actual hardness, and adjust the mix.

[Yodogsandman]

I'd save the shot for when you really need it and use the COWW/SOWW as is. If you find you need a harder alloy, water drop the hot boolits right from the mold into a pail of water, IE:Water Drop. Need harder than water dropping? Oven heat treat the same alloy by heat soaking the boolits in an oven for an hour and then quickly quench in ice cold water. Tailor what hardness you need by heat treating, it's cheaper than any other method.

[Chuckm]

Thanks for the info. I will make up a pot of "alloy" and cast some and see what the avrage hardness is, then do another set from the same pot and do a Water Drop and see what the difference is.

As the shot I have is just a can of mixed pellets, I can use them by size but will run the alloy calculator and see what I comme up with !

I will let you know what I find out.

If anyone has/knows where I can find a 196+- Gr mold for .323/8mm please let me know.

Thanks again

Chuck

[Yodogsandman]

Be sure to wait to check BHN until age hardened for 3 weeks with air cooled alloys and at least 5 days for heat treated alloys. They will both continue to harden just a little bit after this but, rapidly reach most of the maximum hardness in this time period.

[runfiverun]

you guy's covered that pretty well.

Chuck:
focus on one gun at a time, your gonna find BHN isn't all that important.
get some of your alloy put together and make some boolits, then shoot them.
you'll see how everything works and you'll make better decisions with 'on target' information in hand.
bhn is helpful and can make a difference, but it lag's behind other important issues like actual fitment and barrel condition.

[MaryB]

Something that wasn't mentioned, are you going to be using full power loads or reduced power? "The Load" reduced power load is very forgiving of softer lead in many rifles. My Savage Axis in 223 reduced power load(not "The Load" but around 1200fps) I have gotten away with 96/2/2, same in my Type 53(I use "The Load" with Red Dot). Both are fine small game loads and great for plinking because they don't beat up your shoulder!

[Chuckm]

Most of what I need to make up is "Blasting" ammo for "Show and Tells" with variouse weapons.

So I am not looking for Top End loads just something that will work and not lead the bore on .30 cal, .303 and 8mm mostley.

My pistol loads have been fine, just when I get into the Rifle ones do I seem to have troubles..Hardening the Boolits was one way I was looking at.

I may go to Water Hardning at some point, along with gas checks also.

We will see, I checked on a can of .44 cal WC Boolits last night and found that they had a LBT showing of 14 Bhn. They are about 5-6 years old and are with what I was calling COWW. That may be enough to get me started and see what happens.

Thanks VERY much for all the info on this ! ! !

Chuck

[MaryB]

92/4/4 would be plenty hard then.