1911 Vertical Stringing

[Hueyville]

Have a 1911 single stack with a vertical stringing issue. At 25 feet and under its tight as can expect or want. Using a 200 grain cast SWC loaded to major category being pushed by Unique and shooting same load, same press, same dies, same everything been using for over 20 years. At 50 feet and beyond starts stringing on me and what's odd, none of my other 1911's are doing this. It has a 5.25" Wilson match barrel with compensator and been a solid one hole group pistol forever. Like said at 25 feet can stand and punch a 50 shot one hole group just under two inches with my aging eyes but at close range am a front sight only shooter. It has an older set of Wilson match sights that have such narrow rear notch it's become difficult as passed age fifty to see gap as well if try concentrating on front and rear. Took four other known accurate 1911's to range with pile of ammo. Fired 50 rounds from each pistol at 50 feet and four all gave nice round groups with occasional flyer. This one now fires a 2" wide by 4" tall average group now and only thing can figure is its my eyes having difficulty with the all black match sights as never did this in past.

http://i67.tinypic.com/200fl06.jpg

Took a SIG Tacops TB with tritium sights, Colt NM with Colt adjustable sights, Custom Colt with Lippard NCO Long Range frame modification and sights, a custom long slide and at 50 feet none of the others exhibited this stringing. All were fired 50 rounds standing, two hand hold so all was equal and enough shots to show any trends. Only thing I can say notice for sure is the comp gun at long range have difficulty picking up front sight due to narrow gap on rear sight. Have several options considering, first is opening up the rear sight for more daylight either side of front post but won't be able to reverse that once done. Have checked bushing/barrel, barrel/slide and barrel link fit of which none show any appreciable wear. I did recently respring the entire pistol. New recoil spring, firing pin spring, plunger spring, sear spring and mainspring using same Wilson kit with all same weights as original from when built pistol. Second option is put all springs back and test but they have seen more rounds than should have.

Feel like it's a personal issue with my eyes or grip, not the pistols fault or new springs. At point having difficulty with iron sights on all guns and eye doctor says next set of glasses will be bifocals. Leave pistol alone, alter rear sight or start looking for a fit issue? Link measures fine as seen worn link cause stringing so was one of first things checked. Didn't replace as seen that affect way barrel and slide lock up together. Have repeated this test multiple times and farther get from target more issues have but more the issue have with seeing rear sight, front sight and target. Close up just put front sight where want and let it eat. The other "accurate" 1911's are not stringing even using the Lippard NCO at 50 and 75 yards.

All the others seem to have slightly wider sight gap. I don't want to start swapping parts indiscriminately as been down that road before ending up swapping half the parts in a pistol to end up worse than where began. Wilson does not make the rear sight on it anymore so if widen gap and doesn't help can't undo but personally feel the sights and my aging eyes are most likely culprit. Any real 1911 experts in here with ideas? Since use all cast bullets figured good enough excuse to ask here first as the 1911 forums are way too crowded with experts that have been shooting for about five years but know everything because they assembled one pistol and screwed together an AR15. BTW, this is a Jim Stroh build, he is fully retired and don't want to monkey up a pistol built by one of the best smiths of past 30 years.

[Tatume]

A session with a Ransom Rest might be informative.

[ole 5 hole group]

I would hazard a SWAG that it's your grip. Next time out, fire 2 or 3 rounds with a firm grip, then fire the remaining rounds from the mag with a loose grip, same sight picture and see what happens.

IMO as one gets into "senior" status and has to concentrate a tad harder on that front sight, their hand muscles seem to relax a little and stringing is the result - at least that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!;)

I narrowed the front sight a tad and widened the rear a tad - I could see the sights better but it didn't improve the score much but did help with slow fire.

The only solution I'm aware of that works is to stipple the front of the grip and main spring housing making rather sharp points, which will cause some discomfort with a very firm grip - find the level of discomfort that is suitable for you and maintain that discomfort throughout the string of fire - that should solve the "string" effect.

Just reread your post again - 50 foot and standing using both hands - and it's only the Stroh 1911 that is stringing? I used Jim for a few projects and he was more than excellent. I will say this, it might be your grip but you might also need to take that Stroh 1911 into your eye doctor and have him make you up a pair of shooting glasses, not bifocals. That front sight just might have a habit of "walkabout" which can be helped by good shooting glasses, arm and hand "conditioning" and a consistent grip.

Your sights should be extremely sharp at 20 feet to maybe 100/125 yards with shooting glasses - just like you were 16 yoa again. I did that and my eye doctor had no problem with me bringing in the handgun to his office and sighting at a spot on the office wall, as he flipped the lens and then I sighted in on "objects" out his window at a distance and he would adjust the lens again etc. Took maybe 20 minutes to get it where I wanted it. I spent too damn much money, as I got a "smoked" pair of lens for bright sunlight along with the clear - I've never used the smoked lens to date and probably never will???

[bouncer50]

A famous gunsmith told me years ago recoil springs should be change every 2500 rounds. Cheap insurance as he told me because they get weak.

[HeavyMetal]

OK OP takes 5 pistols to the range and four of the five perform as usual,. Number five does not !

Deduction is its a gun issue! It's not his grip or ammo because that would have shown up shooting the other four pistols.

OP has "admitted" to respringing the pistol in question prior to the stringing problem.

Strongly suggest the OP put all the old springs back in pistol five and then, at the range, change one spring at a time until the issue re occurs!

I feel it's the recoil spring as it does add pressure through the spring guide against the link area of the barrel. This could cause stringing if the new spring was a heavier weight that shown on the spring kit list.

Suggest the OP start there!!

HM

[DougGuy]

I would agree with putting ALL the old springs back in and see if the stringing stops. I change springs when and IF they quit running.

[44man]

Springs and grip. Springs allow more rise if weak, weak grip allows rise.

[sghart3578]

I find that towards the end of a shooting session with my handguns fatigue starts to effect my grip. My groups open up.

Slow, controlled fire while concentrating on consistent grip and front sight picture usually brings me back on track.

A long time ago I read some advice from somewhere that said to limit your practice sessions to 50 rounds. After that you get tired and your form starts slipping, leading to bad habits.

I have a hard time doing this because my range time is limited and I have so much fun.

Best of luck,


Steve in N Cal

[slim1836]

I wish I had that problem, Good groups in my opinion.
My 45 groups "minute of man".

Slim

[Multigunner]

I learned to shoot with the 1911A1 using the old military target shooters method of gripping the grip firmly with the middle finger drawing the pistol back against the web of thumb while using a progressively lighter grip of third and fourth fingers, the little finger barely exerting and pressure at all.

The method included use of two .38 Special spent cases balanced case mouth to case mouth held between trigger finger tip pad and web of thumb and practicing gently squeezing as if squeezing the trigger.
This worked out great with stock grip and decent mil spec trigger. Don't know if it would make much difference if you have a light trigger, or trigger shoe, or target grips etc. I think it should work with any full size auto loader.

[runfiverun]

try painting your front sight.

[OS OK]

When we concentrate on sight alignment I think we tend to relax the grip some in steadying up...it takes the shakes out of the sights.
For me...I keep the grip safety firmly in the crotch of my thumb web and grip the middle finger tighter than the rest.
With my old mans eyes I've had to learn to keep focus on the sight alignment with sharp focus on the front sight and the target bull is fuzzy but in line with the sights. Up close I can shoot 'pumpkin on a fence post' sight alignment but as I move back I have to raise up to the center of the bull on the post.
When I start checking that bull with sharp focus my front sight alignment goes to heck quick...it ain't so easy as it was for us old greybacks!

When you get her figured...I hope you'll post the problem here for us.

[Forrest r]

Chronograph your rounds/load in the 1911 with the new springs and an existing accurate 1911 that doesn't have the stringing problem.
Put you old recoil spring back in and re-test.

The chronograph will tell you if there's any ignition issues. If 1 1911 has a 50-shot sd of 38fps and the 1911 with the new springs has a sd of 77fps for the same ammo/50-shot sting. 1 or more of the springs are either bad, has installation issues, etc.
Typically vertical stringing @ 50ft/25yds is from the bbl not going back into lock-up the same way/place after a spring change.