Beware Brass2Bullets

[rolltide]

There is a guy selling dies on _bay and on a web site, brass2bullets.com. I bought a 3 die sizing set to size 9mm brass to 308 jackets. First of all, only 1 punch out of 3 would go into my press ram, and I tried them on my Walnut Hill, my Lee Classic Turret, and an old RCBS press. 2 out of 3 punches were a "no go" on any press. The seller's suggestion was to stick them in a drill and sand them to size. Well I did that to the final sizing die punch so I could use it with 5.7x28 brass to make 308 jackets ( it took quite some time even with course sand paper). The brass was supposed to come out .300, which would have been great. The brass actually came out between .3075 and .3085. Of course, since there was no room for the lead and brass to "spring back", every bullet stuck in my RCE point form die. I got a LOT of practice getting stuck bullets out of a point form die before I realized what was going on. To his credit he gave me a full refund on the die set, but it looks like he may be trying to sell the same die set again on _bay (although I notice I don't see them on his web site any more). The only thing different about the new auction description is that he put a caveat of "+/- .005", which should be the first red flag for any die maker. He should have said +/- .008 if it is the same set of dies. The seller seems like a nice enough sort of fellow, but the dies he sent me were just not useable for the intended purpose.

I just wanted to warn everyone here before you waste your time.

[Half Dog]

Thanks for the heads up.

[huntnman]

I had his info on my note pad. That page is now in the trash. Thanks for the feed back.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez: "stick them in a drill and sand them to size" - you gottta be kidding...

[Ehaver]

Well, that's good to know. I think I was just contemplating buying the exact set you are talking about. I looked on his page and thought it was odd that it did not have a tab for the .308 dies.

These have a very exciting price point. But to know the quality is not there makes it not worth it to me.

[runfiverun]

in swage dies you really do get what you pay for.
once you look around and compare the features, lead times, and quality against the price.
you quickly find out that BT-Snipers dies and prices are actually a very good bargain.
there are some out there that cost a whole lot more and some that cost less but his price and quality are right there together.
the cheaper ones are not the quality you need, and the more expensive ones are better suited to bench rifles.
BT's are like the Winchester or Ruger of die sets they do what they are supposed to do and are reliable about doing it. [and they work in your Winchester or Ruger]

[parkerhale1200]

I also almost bought them.
But there was something that was holding me back.
Indeed the +/- of 0.005 and they where i belive lee dies.
And where is the rest? like a point form, core seater?
It isnt on his website. but oke it is a good try what he did!
I hope to hear from bt this or next week

[rolltide]

I just ordered some custom Lee sizing dies. I will let you know how that works out. At $38 per die, it is a great price if their accuracy is good. We shall see. I called the factory to ask if Lee sizing dies were heat treated, and the reply was that the dies are treated and are "file hard." That being the case, they should be durable enough.

Like you, I also got the feeling that this guy, brass2bullets, was just re-packaging Lee sizing dies.

[newcastter]

With all the different quality die makers we have made known to all of you why would one venture away just to save a buck??
SMH

[clodhopper]

Newcaster, you are overlooking the innate nature of reloaders.

We are penny pinchers.

The frugal streak runs even deeper in those who make their own bullets.

"My name is clodhopper, I have tripped over a couple hundred bucks trying to save 20. And not just once."

[45workhorse]

Newcaster, you are overlooking the innate nature of reloaders.

We are penny pinchers.

The frugal streak runs even deeper in those who make their own bullets.

"My name is clodhopper, I have tripped over a couple hundred bucks trying to save 20. And not just once."
That sounds like me!!!
A cheap B#$/tard:castmine:

[rolltide]

Newcastter,

With all due respect,

1. You will never discover the next quality vendor if you always buy from the old ones. We would not have BT Sniper if people only bought from David and Richard Corbin.

2. There are some parts of swaging where skill and knowledge are more critical than others. i usually try new vendors on the less critical pieces.

3. If I can spend one dollar and accomplish the same thing, why spend two.

4. I have been making and spending my own money since I was twelve. Its my money and I spend it as i see fit. You spend yours any way you like.

Those are 4 reasons why I try out new vendors when I want to. I could probably give you 10 more, but number 4 is really the only one anybody needs.

[Gew]

I ordered his 9mm to 30cal jacket set. It took him a month and a half longer than he said it would so he refunded $50. He even made an extra die at .315 inches because jumping from .330 to .300 took to much force. Using the Walnut press was a must for me in swage mode. I made a 155 grain 6s lead tipped bullet.

[rolltide]

Gew, were you annealing between each step?

[Gew]

Yes I am rolltide.

[JAbee]

Thanks for the heads up.

[rolltide]

Gew, that is good to know. I got a die from RCE that will take 9mm brass down to about .350 in one pass. I ordered a Lee die in .323 and another in .302. I am hoping my WH press will do those steps. I have the dual handles with the roller bar in the middle and my son built a press table out of 1.5" thick wall steel tube. I custom designed the geometry of the table and he welded it up for me. It is a stout arrangement with little flex that allows me to get max leverage on the press. We will see how the steps work when the new dies come. Custom size dies take a few weeks from Lee. With the head area on the brass getting longer and longer as you approach final diameter, I my need to add one more step as well.

[Gew]

Some of the case heads are coming out lop sided, when you size down that far I guess that is the draw back. They are just blasting ammo anyway so I don't expect target bullets but I am going to try to anneal them while spinning them on a loose drill bit and also mess with the shape of the punches.

[rolltide]

I plan on using 5.7 brass mostly for my 30 cal bullets anyway. I use the 9mm brass mostly for 9mm bullets. It is good to know you can use 9mm for 30 cal if needed, especially since it is so cheap to buy. Have you tried using your core seating die and punches with no lead in the case just to true up the case head, then seat the cores once the case heads are trued. It is an extra step before seating, but is might be worth it from an accuracy standpoint. At least you would not need to buy any extra dies or punches. RCE was nice enough to include an extra internal punch with my 30 cal die set to use with jackets with different wall thickness.

[R.Ph. 380]

I plan on using 5.7 brass mostly for my 30 cal bullets anyway. I use the 9mm brass mostly for 9mm bullets. It is good to know you can use 9mm for 30 cal if needed, especially since it is so cheap to buy. Have you tried using your core seating die and punches with no lead in the case just to true up the case head, then seat the cores once the case heads are trued. It is an extra step before seating, but is might be worth it from an accuracy standpoint. At least you would not need to buy any extra dies or punches. RCE was nice enough to include an extra internal punch with my 30 cal die set to use with jackets with different wall thickness.

I use the 5.7 x 28 almost exclusively for the 30-30 rounds I'm building. Whose draw down dies would you suggest to use the 9mm or could I even use the 38 special and how many draws would you suggest, annealing after each? Might be a good use to build the heavier 308 and 30-06.

Bill

[rolltide]

I have draw dies from RCE, I tried Brass2Bullets, and I have Lee dies on order. I believe B2B dies are probably Lee dies. You can get Lee bullet standard sizing dies for 30 dollars each, or 38 dollars for a custom size. I have a few on order, and will let you know when they come. It looks like 4 steps between 9mm and 30 cal is best. The steps between sizing get smaller as the diameter gets smaller because there is a sizable chunk of solid brass building up in the case head area. If you use 38 special, you will have to get a rim shear die from David Corbin or RCE to get rid of the rim before you start to resize. I am using 57 brass to make 180 gr bullets, I do not know how much heavier you want to go. I think 57 brass will make a heavier 30 cal bullet than 9mm although I am not sure since I have not successfully gone from 9mm to 30 cal yet. (I am just judging from pics I have seen posted here.) I think you would need to trim quite a bit off a 38 special case as it would make an extremely long case if de-rimmed and reduced to 30 cal, but I am just guessing since I have never done it.

Look at pics on this thread for what is possible from 9mm brass. (thanks BTS)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?183528-Sizing-dies-(draw-dies)

[clodhopper]

I'm using BTSniper draw down dies. It is a five step system. Four of the steps along the way are suitable stopping points for different calibers, 9mm(and.357,.358) .338, .323, and 308.

I do not have any point form dies, so keeping the the bullets short, 9mm makes either a 131 grain .308 of 175 grain .357.

The BT X crimp die was used before point forming on these bullets.
The .357 bullet was point formed in a modified RCBS .223 reloading die which required a final trip through a bullet size die.
The .308 bullets were formed in a BTSniper swage die.https://attachment.outlook.office.net/owa/darkxmavis@live.com/service.svc/s/GetAttachmentThumbnail?id=AQMkADAwATM0MDAAMS1iMWYy LWEyZDUtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADDKlD%2FLbRAUOWhTC%2FqAABhg cAkF%2F6S8n6EUKDHKemI8YQBQAAAgEMAAAAkF%2F6S8n6EUKD HKemI8YQBQAAABTg9aQAAAABEgAQAMslyqKDu0lEt9ViQnJb3p w%3D&thumbnailType=2&X-OWA-CANARY=moI9zzuTXUG8ySTOhPnEg6BfcOcOEtQYxu0cvN3hm--XhSce3HjNMAOPCvouOvU7vnpPdlCuIy8.&token=f1996203-b333-4f1e-801c-251906f06342&owa=outlook.live.com&isc=1

[clodhopper]

Got so carried away getting a picture to the post, the point of it was missed.

It is a lot of work taking 9mm brass down to 30 cal jackets,

I'm using a walnut hill press, annealing, cleaning and drying the brass for each step. After a sizeable investment in tooling, a guy could get a minimum wage job, pay taxes on the income, and buy, with the proceeds, 3 or 4 times as many bullets per hour.

You have to love your press time.

[R.Ph. 380]

I have draw dies from RCE, I tried Brass2Bullets, and I have Lee dies on order. I believe B2B dies are probably Lee dies. You can get Lee bullet standard sizing dies for 30 dollars each, or 38 dollars for a custom size. I have a few on order, and will let you know when they come. It looks like 4 steps between 9mm and 30 cal is best. The steps between sizing get smaller as the diameter gets smaller because there is a sizable chunk of solid brass building up in the case head area. If you use 38 special, you will have to get a rim shear die from David Corbin or RCE to get rid of the rim before you start to resize. I am using 57 brass to make 180 gr bullets, I do not know how much heavier you want to go. I think 57 brass will make a heavier 30 cal bullet than 9mm although I am not sure since I have not successfully gone from 9mm to 30 cal yet. (I am just judging from pics I have seen posted here.) I think you would need to trim quite a bit off a 38 special case as it would make an extremely long case if de-rimmed and reduced to 30 cal, but I am just guessing since I have never done it.

Look at pics on this thread for what is possible from 9mm brass. (thanks BTS)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?183528-Sizing-dies-(draw-dies)

I will be using a tool head with my Bench press simply to derim the 9mm,357,38spec so that will work easily. It also gives you a simple boat-tail that way. I have a friend with a hobby lathe who will be able to make the inside punches for me. I think I can get maybe 200grn from the 357 brass, but It will probably have a bit of exposed lead.(preliminary figuring) I do have some pinch trim dies that Tim made me a couple of years ago before he disappeared. Those should give me a good measure for length.

Bill

[dtknowles]

Got so carried away getting a picture to the post, the point of it was missed.

It is a lot of work taking 9mm brass down to 30 cal jackets,

I'm using a walnut hill press, annealing, cleaning and drying the brass for each step. After a sizeable investment in tooling, a guy could get a minimum wage job, pay taxes on the income, and buy, with the proceeds, 3 or 4 times as many bullets per hour.

You have to love your press time.

Yeah and using 5.7 brass seems like I could buy jacketed bullets for the price of 5.7 brass.

It is fun to try new things but ........


9mm brass and .223 brass are available for the price of scrap so finding a better way of using them might pan out.

Someone used to make jackets out of tubes, seems .223 brass could be turned into tubes of various diameters.

Tim

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I haven't tackled the 9mm down to .300 thing.
my only comment is, I wonder if Lee dies will hold up?
I've polished them larger and the polishing seems to go pretty fast, compared to Lyman boolit sizing dies or Star boolit sizing dies, so I question the hardness. Also, Lee push through boolit size dies have a small area where the boolit is sized, and I suspect that smaller area is more susceptible to wear, than if the die had a larger area to size the object.

OK with that said, I went a different route, when I started to swage 30 cal. I wasn't considering 9mm, I planned on using 5.7x28 brass exclusively (I have found them as cheap a 4.5¢ each). I found that a 280 rem FL size die with expander removed worked pretty good. I posted about it a few years ago.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?61720-FN-5-7x308&p=938343&viewfull=1#post938343

[rolltide]

Jon, I had the same concerns about Lee dies. I called the factory, and they assured me the steel was " file hard". We shall see. I will post after I give the Lee die a workout.

I am with you about using 57 brass, and your post was very helpful to me. I followed your lead with using the expanderon the 57 cases. I am buying brass for about the same as you. If anyone knows where I can get jackets for that price, pleas tell me where.

[brass2bullets]

I have draw dies from RCE, I tried Brass2Bullets, and I have Lee dies on order. I believe B2B dies are probably Lee dies. You can get Lee bullet standard sizing dies for 30 dollars each, or 38 dollars for a custom size. I have a few on order, and will let you know when they come. It looks like 4 steps between 9mm and 30 cal is best. The steps between sizing get smaller as the diameter gets smaller because there is a sizable chunk of solid brass building up in the case head area. If you use 38 special, you will have to get a rim shear die from David Corbin or RCE to get rid of the rim before you start to resize. I am using 57 brass to make 180 gr bullets, I do not know how much heavier you want to go. I think 57 brass will make a heavier 30 cal bullet than 9mm although I am not sure since I have not successfully gone from 9mm to 30 cal yet. (I am just judging from pics I have seen posted here.) I think you would need to trim quite a bit off a 38 special case as it would make an extremely long case if de-rimmed and reduced to 30 cal, but I am just guessing since I have never done it.

Look at pics on this thread for what is possible from 9mm brass. (thanks BTS)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?183528-Sizing-dies-(draw-dies)

Thanks for commenting on my dies, FYI they are not lee dies. They are made from scrach from 4140 steel. Sizers are .360, .330, .300 +-.003. I make mine dies on a manual lathe and its not easy. I do my best and i also make mistakes.

[brass2bullets]

Rolltide I know I had a rough start with you and things didn't work out. I'm sorry I screwed up. I've fixed my design and I have now the kinks worked out. I fully refunded you with no gripes and paid for shipping back my product. You didn't loose any thing other than time. I'm learning as I go and I am now doing better at quality control. I use a manual lathe and it is tougher than a CNC lathe, I put a lot of my spare time into these dies and I do my best to make a good product. I found out the hard way that the reason people don't make there own dies is because it's a pain in the butt to get consistent tolerances thats why there + or-. I built my dies as a service to others so they could just get out to the range with out breaking the bank. My dies are not Corbin dies. They are build to get the job done and be more affordable.

[brass2bullets]

I like the idea to use more dies to make the transition easier. I curently use 3 and its tough, I'll add afew to make it easier. I know people don't want to spend all day sizing so i used 3 in mine. Ill look into that for my dies. Its a work in progress. Im now thinking it would be easier to take 5/16 copper tube and make cups from it. I think a end point form die, & end sealing die should be enough to make a good cup.

[NoAngel]

BT Sniper's stuff looks expensive as heck so you buy two or three 'cheaper sets' none of which will work well, if at all. Fight them to work, fight the seller to get a refund. Maybe it works out in the end, maybe it don't but now you're out more than BT's "expensive" stuff that he stands behind 100%......hmm, maybe his stuff ain't all that expensive when you think about it.

[JRPVT]

I might have been 9 or 10 the first time I put a knife to stone under supervision. One way or another I've been machining since then, up to and including CNC Lathes and Mills. If I want a set of dies I get them from one of the reputable die makers. These folks have put a lot into getting their machining skills where they are, and my hat is off to them. I'm not that skilled, and have no interest in getting that focused on something anymore. Tool and die makers are highly prized, and are for the most part deserving of it, it's not something any monkey can do. Dave

[shooterg]

The Corbins and Blackmon won't be around forever. BT's stuff well worth the bucks, but we're a growing bunch and I hope some of the newer makers work out too.