pet loads for 8MM 215GR a karabiner and Alliant Powders

[eli]

I need some suggestions for loading the 8mm 215gr 'karabiner' with Alliant powders and any other details you might wish to share.

Cheers

[Ben]

Great shooting bullet in my 8 X 57 mm ! !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/3333.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/1000.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-8.jpg

[eli]

Thanks for the load data and pics. That's an impressive result. Which rifle were you using?

Cheers

[Ben]

Here is a pic of my rifle. A nice 8 X 57 mm Sporter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/531.jpg

[Tristan]

Here is a pic of my rifle. A nice 8 X 57 mm Sporter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/531.jpg

Yow! That is a great looking rifle!

Where'd you get that? Did you do the woodwork?

And, does the Karabiner boolit feed well from your mag?

- Tristan

[725]

Ben,
I've seen your pictures of that rifle a few times before and still I have to stop and oogle it everytime. Well done.
725

[Ben]

The Karbiner bullet feeds about 80% out of my rifles, 1st rd. feeds fine, the ones below it in the mag. box as they come up and it's their turn to feed sometimes the ones on the left hand side of the feed rail won't always feed perfectly.

725:

Many thanks for those nice comments.......

Yes, I did the woodwork on that one. I'm a professional stock finisher / refinisher :

Here is my Web site:

http://gunstockfinishing.tripod.com/

Here is my " Photo Page " of stocks that I've done recently:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Gunstock%20Finishing%20Photos/

[Ricochet]

The Karabiner feeds better than the Maximum because the nose is a little shorter, but every one of my Mausers has issues with these boolits. On one it'll be the first round that hangs the worst, on another the last. Some hang with rounds coming out of the right column worse, another will hang when it's coming from the left. My impression is that Mausers were never meant for bullets with much of a meplat on them. Round noses and spitzers are where it's at, but the group buy boolit from a couple of years ago that has a small meplat on it works fine.

[mtnman31]

I'm interested in some load data as well. I have a Yugo M-48 I plan to shoot these from.

Also, what top punch works well for these bullets?

Cheers

[bcp477]

Not to hijack the thread, but I can offer some advice as regards the feeding problems. Most of the '98-type milsurp rifles, even the German and Czech ones, have very rough, poorly refined feed ramps, especially at the "shoulders", where the feed ramp transitions to the magazine lips. A bit of judicious work with a dremel tool and a fine stone to soften the abrupt shape and polish the feed ramp will work wonders. My M48 used to feed only spitzers well. After working over the feed ramp, it now will feed just about any bullets well, including round-nose or flat-point ones. Even the long Karabiner bullets feed without problems, as long as I seat so that the COL is less than 3.25".

[Bret4207]

My Yugo 48, brand new as far as I can tell, loves the Karibiner and 13.0 Red Dot.

[Ricochet]

I'm sitting here looking into an M24/47, and yeah that feed ramp has coarse tool marks and the "shoulders" look like something a Boy Scout carved in his first woodcarving class at summer camp. Fine Old World craftsmanship. But that's not where the wide meplats hang up, it's on the square edges of the rear of the chambers.

[bcp477]

Ricochet,

Yes and no. The "shoulders" of which I speak DO have an influence. That influence is on the ORIENTATION of the cartridge, as it exits the magazine and transitions up the feedramp, to enter the chamber. If the cartridge is not guided smoothly into the correct orientation, especially with bullets other than spitzers (which obviously are more forgiving in this aspect)....then it is very likely that the meplat of the bullet will catch and hang up on the chamber edge, or the inner torque shoulder, etc. Round-nose bullets are more forgiving than flat-nose ones, though not so much as spitzers (as you can imagine). A shorter COL will help, but that is not the best choice for accuracy in most cases and NOT a real choice for the Karabiner bullet and others like it, because it is so long. Trust me, I made an extensive study of this problem, using several rifles, before settling on the modifications to my M48. What I found is that the feedramp/ magazine lip shoulders on all of the rifles I checked (two M48's, one 24/47, a couple of K98k's and at least one Vz24) as from the factory tend to push nose of the cartridge (the bullet end) over TOO much as the cartridge exits the magazine, so that the orientation briefly is rather "cockeyed"....just before the base of the cartridge (begins to be) taken up under the extractor and the cartridge begins entering the chamber. When the base slips under the extractor claw and comes into contact with the bolt face, naturally this "straightens out" the orientation of the cartridge - but by then, it is often too late, as the meplat of a flat-nose bullet has most often caught on the chamber edge already. What is needed is a bit more SUBTLE, smooth transition of the orientation of the cartridge - hence the mods to the feedramp and it's shoulders. If you need visual evidence to prove this to yourself, then I suggest that you set up your rifle in a cradle or some such support, then cycle the bolt very slowly several times, with the troublesome cartridge. Of course, mauser bolts are designed to be cycled with a bit of "authority"...but this test will serve to indicate the orientation of the round as it exits the magazine (and before it is straigtened out by the bolt face/extractor). If the nose of the bullet is too "cockeyed", that is, if it actually is pushed past the chamber opening (in your rifle) as this transition occurs, then I guarantee that you have the same issue that I did - and that the problem will be improved or eliminated by the mods I have described.

Sorry for the looong post, gentlemen. I hope this makes sense as it reads.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, it makes sense. Thanks!

I think for now I'll make do with more forgiving boolits, rather than taking a Dremel to all of my Mauser throats.

[eli]

bcp447, do you have any pics of the work you've done to smooth out the ramps which you can share. A visual 'how to' might prove valuable to those of us interested in this topic.

Cheers

[bcp477]

I don't have any photos to offer. Sorry. I really don't think that photos would be of much help, anyway, as it would be very difficult to get any clear photos of that (tight) area of the receiver. Someone with a really good digital camera might well be able to do so - but that ain't me.

The best way to understand what needs to be done, in my opinion, is to turn over your receiver and closely examine the feedramp shoulder areas on each side - just under the front edges of the magazine lips. Looking from the underside, this is easy to see. On every Mauser-type (milsurp) rifle I have examined, these areas are "bumpy" and poorly finished. These are the areas which control the orientation of the cartridge, as it transitions from the magazine. All that is required is to smooth out the "bumps" and reshape these shoulders, so that the cartridges are not pushed so far out of line as they pass against these shoulders. The exact amount of work needed will vary for each rifle. It is a simple matter to test the operation by cycling the bolt VERY slowly....and closely observing how much the bullet-end of the cartridge is pushed out of line. The exact amount of material to remove is not terribly critical, anyway, so there is no need for micrometer-like precision here. Just machine off the "bumps" on the shoulders (my M48 receiver was very rough and unfinished in these areas), making them smooth and uniform. It is doubtful that anyone could somehow "mess this up" and ruin the feeding of a rifle - as long as one doesn't get crazy with metal removal. So, don't worry. A dremel tool with a 1/4" diameter, fine grit, straight - sided stone works perfectly for this operation. A stone with a round nose on it is even better. However, one could easily do the work with a 1/4" dia. dowel wrapped with fine emery cloth.

As for the main portion of the feedramp itself, that does not really need any major changes. Just some polishing and smoothing, which I undertook myself only because I did the work on the shoulders - and I was trying to create a smooth overall contour.

The whole operation required only about ten minutes, plus cleanup time. Obviously you would want to protect the chamber, bore and other parts of the rifle from any grit or metal filings (DO plug the chamber with a paper towel or something similar) - and be certain to clean the receiver well after the work is done. I found that spray carburetor cleaner (sprayed through one of those little plastic tubes) served very well for this purpose. Make sure to remove all possible grit from the locking lug area of the receiver.

[Newtire]

Here is a pic of my rifle. A nice 8 X 57 mm Sporter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/531.jpg

Hey Ben,

If I made a rifle that looked halfway as good as the one in your picture, I would be happy.

Is that from a Turk Mauser? I see what looks like a big difference in diameter between the part of the barrel just in front of the receiver & the next section forward is why I ask. I think it looks pretty nice actually.

I have been wishing I could make something cool like that and now that I have a nice piece of wood, I think I might give it a try.

I had the guy on E-bay (J. Hamrick) redo the bolt & guess I could do a drill & tap for scope myself....hmmmm..

You do great work! I like that matte finish to the wood look too. Not so glossy looking but smooth and the grain shows up real nice it looks like.

Anyhow, I have a Turk Mauser & now I just need to get started.

[Ben]

Newtire :

Yes....that particular rifle was built on a $50 Turkish Mauser 98' action.

A fine action ( worth much more than the $50 price I paid for it ) in my opinion.

You can sink an awful lot of time into a project like that. I like doing that kind of work, I guess if you don't like it, you don't need to be doing it. I'd " guesstimate " that I've got 50 - 60 labor hrs. in that particular rifle.

A nice way to burn up many of your " retirement hours."

Ben

[Freightman]

I found with the 230g LEE boolit that I can use a .308 sizing die on the nose and they feed much better than leaving them as cast on the nose. Un- sized it runs 75% feed and sized 98% I know just another steap but-

[Ben]

Newtire :

Yes....that particular rifle was built on a $50 Turkish Mauser 98' action.

A fine action ( worth much more than the $50 price I paid for it ) in my opinion.

You can sink an awful lot of time into a project like that. I like doing that kind of work, I guess if you don't like it, you don't need to be doing it. I'd " guesstimate " that I've got 50 - 60 labor hrs. in that particular rifle.

A nice way to burn up many of your " retirement hours."

I'll include a link below if you'd like to see the photos from start - finish on that particular rifle project. Actually the photos in the album are in reverse...the 1st photos are of the finished rifle, the 131st photo is the beginning of the project . If you have a high speed connection, once the page opens, find " Slide Show " click on that and sit back and watch all the photos :

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/8%20X%2057%20mm%20Sporter/

Ben

[Newtire]

Newtire :

Yes....that particular rifle was built on a $50 Turkish Mauser 98' action.

I'd " guesstimate " that I've got 50 - 60 labor hrs. in that particular rifle.

A nice way to burn up many of your " retirement hours."

Ben

Funny that I'm finding that I enjoy doing the project and feel a little sad when it's done cause it's so much fun!

The stock I got has the safety relief cut out for a M70 style safety and I see the same guy that did my bolt makes a safety like that too so will do that I think.

I was going to ask how you got the sight off your barrel but now I see that you started with just an action sounds like. I know there's an internet place where the guy does that so will look there.

I eventually want to learn how to checker stocks someday...

[Ben]

Don't short change us on photos on this project.

Ben

[Newtire]

Don't short change us on photos on this project.

Ben

I went and looked at your slideshow of the Mauser project. I will see what I can do I reckon!

[EMC45]

Nice groups, nice rifle!