AR 556 cast loads WIP

[autopilotmp]

Yep it's another cast in AR thread. So I cast a bunch of the lee 55gn rcbs clone boolits up coww/ac, sized 225, checked, and felix lube. Went out for range trip #1, these were loaded with H4895 from 17gn - 20.5gn in .5 increments (did not know about dacron). Found function and what grouped well with my AR at 25 yds 19.5 to 20.5 gn of powder.

Trip #2 loaded up some more of the 55gn but coww/WD this time (still no dacron). This time I weight sorted boolits and sorted out only one brand of cases for this group of loads. Shot from 25yds and 50yds with mediocre results at 25 and dismal at 50yds.

Made a forearm change on the rifle requiring removal of gas block and flash hider. Between flash hider and barrel I found a fairly good amount of lead build up, while not finding any in the barrel. Changed out the forearm and cleaned the barrel crown, reassembled the rifle and proceeded to thoroughly clean the barrel with copper solvent (had not done this after firing the 50 rounds of federal FMJ factory for test fire). Cleaned barrel and action reassembled and went to work at the reloading bench. Also in this time I requested some heavier boolit samples from some of the great members here and received NOE 225-62-FN and NOE 225-70-RN boolit samples. Thinking that my 1:8 barrel needed some heavier fodder to be accurate I added these two boolits to the loadings for the next range trip. Also some extensive reading here led me to using dacron for a filler in the lighter loads for 556. My wife is a quilter so I quickly liberated a few feet of polyester batting (in sheet form) to cut into little squares for stuffing into the cases.

Trip #3 This time I had about 70 rounds loaded, five shots for each load. Here are the specifics and targets. Range was 25yds, shot from bench with front bag gusting right to left wind. Will handpick the best ones and reload stepping it out to 50 next trip.
Powder: Sized: Notes:
H4895 .225 Dacron filler was used in the 18 and 18.5 loads. These two loads were an after thought (read about dacron filler)
Originally this range did not reliably cycle the bolt and would not lock on empty.

boolits used:
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube
Felix lube/GC
NOE 225-62-FN
Felix lube/GC
NOE 225-70-RN
Felix lube/GC

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_131538_zpsnvbxo15x.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_131538_zpsnvbxo15x.jpg.html)
#1 and #3 are both in the top target. group 1 is a diamond around center with one shot at top right. #3 is around pretty small group around the top right of the diamond with one shot out to the right.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210428_zpst0xms0ua.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210428_zpst0xms0ua.jpg.html)
#4 top left. #5 bottom left. #6 bottom right. #7 top right. #8 center.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210447_zps6rkfm1jg.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210447_zps6rkfm1jg.jpg.html)
#9 bottom right. #10 bottom left. #11 top left. #12 top right. #13 center
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210506_zpsbpmdij2d.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161015_210506_zpsbpmdij2d.jpg.html)

All of these groups are better than any groups shot in the prior range trips. There are a few groups that had called fliers in them. I however have selected a few loads to carry on to the next phase.

Lessons learned:
- Water dropped or Heat treated coww no softer (with PC being the exception to this)
- Clean your barrel Dumb A.
- Dacron filler will help ignition thus creating pressure need to cycle the AR!

Questions:
- At what point should I stop using dacron filler?
Or just continue to drop the amount of filler used until case capacity is full?
- Does anyone else find this all rather maddening yet fun at the same time?

Thanks for listening I will provide the results from next range trip, any and all input is what we are here for and it's appreciated.

[clearcut]

Nice groups I have the 1:7 bbl and it likes the heaver boolits I haven't ever used filler but I'm using 21 gn. IMR 4895 and it fills the case close to the top the IMR is just a bit slower than the H4895 . Keep up the good work.

CC

[autopilotmp]

Clearcut,
Have you had a chance to load up any of those 55gn Boolits yet?

[clearcut]

I'm hoping to PC them this week, lots of rain this weekend I'll let you know how they run in the 1:7 twist bbl.

cc

[autopilotmp]

Range trip #4,

boolits used:
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube

lee 225-55-rf
Felix lube/GC

NOE 225-62-FN
Felix lube/GC

NOE 225-70-RN
Felix lube/GC

H4895 was used in all loads
.7 gn dacron in all loads

(INSERT PICS HERE)

Notes:
Did not get results I was hoping/expecting. I attempted to measure the "patterns" with a yard stick. Looks like the best "groups" were @5" not counting a flier here and there. All shots were from 100yds using a 5x scope. No weight sorting was done since I had not intended to go to that extent after finding a load that shoots decent. Also intend to remove scope and at most have an RDS with possible magnifier at some point, and BUIS as well. surprisingly out of these loads I found the little 55grain boolit did much better than I expected. In fact I was expecting the 55gn to be outperformed by the 62 and 70gn boolits. I may need to push these two boolits faster to get them properly stabilized. If that is the case I will stick with the 55gn because I have the mold for it and AT THIS TIME I would not benefit from the expense of a mold to produce the 62 or 70 gn boolits.

The next step in this madness I suppose is to weight sort some of the 55gn naked and pc boolits and shoot them in a couple selected powder charges. I did notice on the heavier charges (20-20.5) a puff of dacron on occasion, did not see this at the lower charges (18.5-19.5).

Questions:
When weight sorting, when should i be weighing and sorting? naked or after gc lube/pc?
What kind of groups are you guys getting at 100yds from your modern sporting rifles with cast boolits?

will post pictures when i can get my butcher paper and targets laid back out on the living room floor.

[CHeatermk3]

When I weight sort boolits I weigh them as-cast. I take it that you're firing your groups' rounds fired fed out of the magazine. This may result in off-center or otherwise mis-aligned boolit in relation to the C/L of the bore.

[upnorthwis]

My opinion is I would not use filler just for the pressure. I don't use any filler with 1:7" twist x 20"lg., 21.6 gr. AA2520, crimped RCBS 55 gr. FN w/PC @2500 fps. It does what I need, 3" @ 100 yd. for 3-gun. For longer ranges I go with J-word.

[runfiverun]

once you get full functioning you can drop the filler.

[autopilotmp]

After comparing my 25yard target to the results of the 100yard target, I have decided to try 18.5-19.5 grains of H4895 with weight sorted 55gn lubed and 55gn pc. Since I am narrowing it down to about 6 loads I think I am going to shoot ten round shot groups (or two 5 round groups) this session. I will drop the dacron in all but the 18.5 load (my notes from prior range session indicates this as not at full function).

On another note I never did give specifics on the rifle being used. It is a build that started from stripped Anderson lower and upper, Anderson 16" m4 profile barrel carbine length gas system. All internals and BCG are PSA. Only using a 1.5-5 scope for the time being until I can get a decent red dot.

Thanks for the comments so far, I will continue to update as I go.

[upnorthwis]

I would ditch the weight sorting too.

[autopilotmp]

What a day yesterday, took two loads to the range for my rifle and fired from 100yds again. I am very happy with the results, although I do have one question on the results for you more experienced cast boolit rifle shooters. So here are the details:

#1
lee 225-55-rf
PC/GC/Felix lube
weight sorted using only one group iirc 56.9 grn only
COAL: 2.120
Primer: Winchester SR
Powder: 18.5gn H4895
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20161113_101735_zpsorh2jwz6.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20161113_101735_zpsorh2jwz6.jpg.html)

#2
lee 225-55-rf
Felix lube/GC
weight sorted used 56.6 and 56.7
COAL: 2.120
Primer: Winchester SR
Powder: 19.5gn H4895
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20161113_095307_zpshgwne8mb.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20161113_095307_zpshgwne8mb.jpg.html)

pic of full target
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20161113_095339_zpssdaacawi.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20161113_095339_zpssdaacawi.jpg.html)

Notes:
- both groups had the one flyer that went high. The PC group flyer was actually off the target but straight up no windage deviation.

- the low left shot from the pc group was a called flyer I jerked the trigger and knew it.

Questions:
#1 what could cause the one high flyer out of the group? Lube purge?
#2 would not lubing a group of pc boolits be the easiest way to identify if it is lube purge?
#3 what more could be done to shrink the size of this group?

again thank you for reading all of this, your advice and comments are appreciated.

[popper]

Was the high flyer the first shot? Your lubed boolits are 1 gr. hotter than PC, might be at a node. Lubing PCd gives a few fps but I don't do it. I chamber by hand when working a load so I don't get any nose dings.

[autopilotmp]

no first round was in main group, as it was off the target I don't know for sure the exact number but it was not first or last shot. If I recall correctly it was @7th shot.

Yes the lubed were 1 gr more powder than pc because of the group size at 25yds and initial 100yd group size. I may download the lubed boolits to 19gn and use all same weight to tenth of a gn to see if the group shrinks.

I have also pc'd some that have just a check w/ no lube sorted these by weight as well so I can look at the lube purge question.

[leadman]

I have shot quite a few 22 cal boolits in my 223/ 5.56 Contender and AR along with the 22 K Hornet. I have found the easy road to good accuracy is to cast the boolits of linotype. Fewer culls, better accuracy and no leading.
As an experiment with coating boolits with Hi-Tek coating I heat treated the linotype boolits. This allowed me to get over 3.600 fps in my 23" Contender 223 Rem barrel. Better accuracy is around 3,000 fps.
Many of the groups in my guns will run around 1" at 100 yards with linotype, copper gas checks, and Carnuba Red lube or Hi-Tek coating.
I previously used Hi-Skor powder in my Contender for a load duplicating the 22 WMR. Out of that powder so have to work up a new load.

I did find that the Hornady copper gas checks gave me the best accuracy followed by the Gator copper gc. The aluminum works good in loads less than 2,000 fps, but not as good as the copper.

[Alan Bycroft]

Hi guys. Tried my first attempt for casting boolits for .223, powder coating with Smoke's Flame Red, no gas checks. Following this thread, I used your recommendations for IMR4895. Loaded up 5 rounds at 18.5, 19.0, 19.5, and 2.0. Headed out to the range to try them out at 25 yards just to see if I could get them on paper. Aside from not having enough power to completely cycle the action on my AR, I was very pleasantly surprised with the results. You may notice there aren't holes in the target that was meant to be for the 2.0 grains. First shot, pulled the trigger and "click". I pulled back the charging handle to eject the casing which came out with some difficulty, looked in the chamber and closed the bolt to try the second shot..."click"..nothing. Cycled back the bolt and ejected that round. Wondering what was going on, I opened the action, pulled out the bcg and looked down the bore...something was stuck in there. It finally dawned on me that when I pulled out the first casing, which didn't have a bullet on it, the bullet was actually stuck just inside the rifleing...the second round didn't fire because it didn't fully go into battery. THANK GOD!!!! Seems my rifle is smarter than I am. Literally dodged a bullet on that one! I went home, kind of shaken about what might have happened, and cleaned up the rifle,, set my remaining rounds to 2.165 and loaded up a few more in stages to 21.5 grains.
185385185384

[autopilotmp]

You know I have had a couple that failed to fire and had to use force get bcg to open and extract round(never had one pull the boolit). Never even thought it might be length issue since only occurred couple times through @200 rounds. I did make a few dummy rounds to check length and feeding before loading, but I did not use PC boolits for this test.

I still have yet make it out the range to fire my non lubed pc boolits to see about lube purge theory.

In early testing th 18.5 grn load was on the cusp of function. But I found that one of my gas rings had gotten damaged, after replacing them found this load to work quite well and could probably download and use filler. However this seems to be a node for my particular set up.

Alan:
What rifle set up do you have?

[Alan Bycroft]

It is a Del-ton 16" barrel in 1x9 twist. I have read a bunch of threads that talk about fillers, but have yet to see where anybody has said why is it done, what does it do, and when you should or should not. Not to mention what material to use?

[TenTea]

Last year, I embarked on an AR cast bullet adventure and found success with:
An iron sighted A2 rifle.
A twenty inch, 1:14 twist barrel.
Saeco 221 gas check bullet, sized .225" and lubed with *Old NRA* lube.
20 grains IMR4895 = full function with no filler used or required.
Loaded to magazine length.

I started discussion here and finished it on Goodsteel's forum with some former (now current again) CB members.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?316776-AR-cast-plinker-1-14-barrel-twist

[Larry Gibson]

It is a Del-ton 16" barrel in 1x9 twist. I have read a bunch of threads that talk about fillers, but have yet to see where anybody has said why is it done, what does it do, and when you should or should not. Not to mention what material to use?

Proper use of fillers; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

Larry Gibson

[Alan Bycroft]

Thanks 10T...looks like I'm on the right track with the loading. I pc my boolits and size them .225, then crimp with Lee FCD. If it will stop raining long enough this Saturday, I'll try out my 20 grain load. I'll also check out your link.

[Alan Bycroft]

Proper use of fillers; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

Larry Gibson
Awesome....thanks Larry. I also load 7.62x54R with cast boolits. I'm sure this will help!

[Larry Gibson]

Alan

Here a target I shot with my Finn M39 at 100 yards in a CBA match this month. I use a Dacron filler in 7.62x54R load.

On the sighter target I had two 10s and 3 low Xs at 6 oclock. I then switched to the record target and the 1st shot was the 6 o'clock 10. I went up 2 clicks (1/2 moa) and started plunking them into the X ring. The 3 0'clock 9 was me, I got caught on the 9th shot when the wind picked up and I didn't catch it.......still scored a 99-7X.

Nothing to do with an AR but it demonstrates the effectiveness of the proper use of a Dacron filler. A Dacron filler in the AR is just as effective, especially with 4895 powder and the faster 7 - 9" twist barrels. The Dacron filler allow higher pressure with a more uniform burn at a lower velocity while functioning the action reliably.

Larry Gibson

[Alan Bycroft]

Thanks Larry (I also am experimenting with my two Mosins but thats another thread I'd like to chat with you about). Ok guys....I'm going to have t make a withdrawal from the knowledge bank. Using I4895, I tried 5 rounds of 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0 grains each. Only the 21.0 grains would completely cycle the action, and it was just barely. After each round of the loads, I opened the receiver, pulled the BCG and looked down the barrel. In every case there was a trail of unburned powder. Reading that you guys are getting excellent results with lower powder loads is kinda frustrating! While they seem to be grouping decently, it kinda sucks I have to manually cycle each round! Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Rifle and load info is listed ine earlier posts.

Just now reading Larry's post above i'm guessing I'm a likely candidate for some Dacron filler? If so, going back to the 18.5 grain and laddering back up?

[autopilotmp]

Okay I understand that each rifle is a rule unto itself, but I have questions
1 how much difference is there between H4895 and I4895?
2 would a gas check (or lack of) make any difference in pressures?
3 if length of barrel and gas port is same why so much difference in pressures needed to cycle? Recoil Buffer weight/spring tension difference?

[Alan Bycroft]

Thought I just take the leap of faith and try adding some filler on a few rounds. Found a glove that was insulated with what appears to be Dacron. Put some tufts down into 5 rounds each of 20.0, 20.5, and 21.0. I'll try those out next week.

[Alan Bycroft]

Well guys...I tried the rounds with the filler, and still no joy. I have been told that the reason i'm having so much trouble with jams is because the bolt is not being driven back far enough due to reduced pressure. The mechanics of it make sense. I just don't understan how it is working for so many others. BTW...I got a pretty stern admonishment from GunBlue on YT for doing this. He says that reduced loads in semi auto rifles is extremely dangerous. So...I'm giving this one up, I think.

[autopilotmp]

Finally made it out to the range this past weekend. Results were interesting and marginal. I fired to 10round groups at 100yds using my 5x scope and front bag rest.

Both loads were identical except for the actual powder charge. Boolits were weight sorted to .1gn. Loads cycled action properly and no filler was used.

c225-55-rf
PC/GC
coal: 2.115
Powder charge: H4895
Left group: 18.5gn
right group: 19.0gn
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20170211_103411_zps00zbvdyj.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20170211_103411_zps00zbvdyj.jpg.html)

Also on this trip I switched out my scope for my new RDS (sightmark ultra shot m-spec) and shot the Army alt "C" qualification course. (25meter scaled targets 50-300meters)
I dropped one shot on the right 100 m target in kneeling position. got a little sloppy trying to beat time since a car passed by the range in the middle of prone unsupported (I always cease fire out of respect/safety for people passing the range).
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20170211_200553_zpsiejzqudu.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20170211_200553_zpsiejzqudu.jpg.html)

Comments:
1. on the issue of the odd high flier in my previous session I believe "lube purge" is the case. I eliminated the lube and fired the same load again and did not get the one high round out of either group.

2. the loads from this trip did not group as well as the previous trip think this may be difference without the lube.

3. The next range trip will hopefully include an identical loading of no PC but using a different lube than FWFL. Carnuba Red maybe? (possibly carnuba blue) Thoughts?

4. Brass was landing right close in a nice little pile I really like that. Even out of my dads Mini14 they didn't go far (19.5gn H4895)

Again these are my findings with my loads through my rifle.
Any questions and comments are welcome as usual. Thanks for looking.

[autopilotmp]

Okay, I just got some carnuba blue from WLL. I will be lubing both pc and nonpc boolits and running the same 100 yd test fire to see if this lube will have the one high "lube purge" round.
The end game here is that I would like to do away with pc if at all possible as it is just another step in this process, one I don't really enjoy doing unlike most of the other steps.

[flyingmonkey35]

Looks good. Going to go get some h4895

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[35remington]

Alan, better to pay attention to those that do it than those that do not. Your YouTube source is misinformed. Have him stop on by to get up speed.

My own carbine and mid length AR's function down to 17-18 grains H4895 with a 55-62ish grain bullet. Dacron is always used because I have seen the pressure/velocity swings (and potential functioning problems) when it is not used. The mid length I have actually runs at lower levels than the carbines do.

[Alan Bycroft]

Alan, better to pay attention to those that do it than those that do not. Your YouTube source is misinformed. Have him stop on by to get up speed.

My own carbine and mid length AR's function down to 17-18 grains H4895 with a 55-62ish grain bullet. Dacron is always used because I have seen the pressure/velocity swings (and potential functioning problems) when it is not used. The mid length I have actually runs at lower levels than the carbines do.
Thanks very much. I really want to make this work, and its pretty frustrating that everbody else seems to have success. My AR is DI 16" 1x9 Delton upper...pretty plain vanilla stuff. Should I try gc? I am using IMR4895 with charges from 18.5-21.0 grn.

[autopilotmp]

Alan
Check your gas rings, early on I had a gas ring shear off. After replacing the rings I actually got full function on a load that previously would cycle but not lock open. Not sure if buffer weight might be a factor and could not tell you for sure how to tell which one you have. I also have read on here that the I4895 is a little slower than the H4895. However I would think the loads you were using and the ones with filler should have worked. Seems to me there is something being overlooked we just need to put a finger on it.

[Alan Bycroft]

It just occurred to me that I havent tried shooting these in another gun. My wife has a Sig AR. Looks like ill be sneaking hers out this weekend!

[flyingmonkey35]

I took 3o of my cast 223. Pc. 15 gas checked 15 not. Over 18.5 grains of h4895.

50 yards. Hiting steel every shot. Standing

Had several.fail to feed.

Bumped powder up to 19.5 will take out and try again.

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk

[Alan Bycroft]

I took 3o of my cast 223. Pc. 15 gas checked 15 not. Over 18.5 grains of h4895.

50 yards. Hiting steel every shot. Standing

Had several.fail to feed.

Bumped powder up to 19.5 will take out and try again.

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk
Looking forward to your results. Is this your first time trying cast in an AR?

[flyingmonkey35]

Looking forward to your results. Is this your first time trying cast in an AR?
2nd first was with h335 over 25 grains. Looked like a black powder rifle going off

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk

[autopilotmp]

Got out to the range today and fired my 100yd 10 shot group with the new lube (carnuba blue). Load was 19 gn of H4895 w/ gc. Was not a great group, think I may revisit this with some dacron filler at a later date. It did however eliminate the lube purge flier that I was getting with my Felix lube. I was seeing some unburnt powder left in the barrel. I will also get some loads worked up with H335 and varget that I have on hand. I think short of getting a heavier boolit for my 1:8 barrel I would have to stick with 18.5 gn H4895 and filler for the best accuracy at 100+ yds. This load was @ 2moa, but for loading in bulk I'm not crazy about the extra step of the filler.

[autopilotmp]

Interesting thing happened at the range today. I was out shooting my ar using the 55gn pill with 19.5 gn of h4895 at 25 yards. At this distance they group really well but what was interesting was I shot a gallon milk jug full of water with my water dropped coww then PCed boolit. I put up a cardboard backer 2' behind to see the fragment pattern as it came out the other side. BUT it left one large round hole about double the size of the entry.

Thought it was a fluke so I did it again but placed another cardboard on the berm to see where it impacted. Unfortunately we could not recover the boolit for inspection but it left the same size hole the second time as well. Pics of the holes in the cardboard to follow.
219482
here is another pic with a hole from earlier in the day same boolit making a hole in cardboard for comparison (far right hole is the hole in top picture)
219483

[autopilotmp]

Have been working with the NOE 225-70-RN mold playing with alloy, heat treat, and PC. Ran into an issue with the round locking up the gun (sometimes had the same problem with the lee boolit as well). So I did some fiddling and found that the boolit was engraving on the lands, PC was the worst culprit but the non coated were showing engraving as well. Here are the specifics:

NOE 225-70-RN
OAL: 2.243
engraves down to 2.030

Lee 55gn fn
OAL: 2.115

I am wondering what you guys that use these two boolits are loading them to and if you are/have run into this issue. I realize that touching/kissing the lands is ideal for accuracy but it seems that in this case it is (sometimes with the lee boolit) keeping the rifle from going into battery. These are seated so that the gas check is right on the edge of being completely in the case. Any input from anyone here is appreciated.

[sledgehammer001]

I'm new to owning an AR, and have just started my journey of frustration.
I've been reading a lot that a .223 chamber has a shorter leade/throat, than a 5.56 chamber. Might you have a .223 chamber?
I actually started my ladder of loads this week. I'm using the Lee 225-55gc with Hornady checks, and PC w/o lube, over Shooters World Tactical Rifle powder. All the way down to 16.0 gr would cycle and lock on empty. No issues with bumping into the riflings.
My results are under "canister powder/" here on CB.

[autopilotmp]

It's an Anderson 556 NATO carbine barrel. I'm finding that some of my boolits have grown a little and when sized the step down to the nose on the NOE boolit is erased. If I try to put the nose into the business end of the barrel they won't drop in where as some of my other boolits from same mold cast from the same alloy (mixed 20# in a pot and poured off into bigots) will drop in to the barrel all the way to the driving band.

Will add that some have been water dropped from mold, heat treated, or powder coated. Rather frustrating and I'm on the verge of going back to the Lee c225-55-fn boolit and enjoying the decent accuracy I've reached there.

[sledgehammer001]

That would be frustrating. Haven't dealt with that in my .225" cast, so I'm of absolutely no help there. Will be following the thread to see what our gurus chime in with.

[Springfield0612]

This is why I run PID controllers on both of my pots. If I am making bullets for a consistent load group I will only keep dropped bullets from the same pot temp and the same mold temp. Using this strict method casting for .308 I dropped about 400 bullets and 80% of them were +/- .8 grn. I came to this realization sizing cast .45 bullets. Some were easy to resize some took more effort. The next casting session I separated the bullets by progression while casting them. The hotter the mold and hotter the alloy the more resizing effort it took. But once the alloy temp and mold temp were cooler the less effort it took. I also found the on a multi-cavity mold (5-6 cavity) that the end cavities don't regulate heat as well as the center cavities. Learning all this I came to the realization that if I wanted good consistent bullets for rifle casting I had to be on my A game while casting. Which is why I run 2 pots now. Both have PID controllers. I can fill both with the same alloy and cast consistent temps to get consistent bullets and have wayyyyyy less down temp for remelting sprues or adding an ingot. The biggest frustration I have RN casting for .223 is my lee sizer that is marked .225 sizes to .2235/.224 gotta send it back to get them to open it up.

I'm on the cast in AR journey myself using Elvis Ammo design 62 grn plain base from Arsenal Molds. So far no success using IMR 4895, CFE223, and W748. 8" groups at 20 yards. I'm on the fence about getting a PB gas check die and seeing if that'll tighten things up.

It's an Anderson 556 NATO carbine barrel. I'm finding that some of my boolits have grown a little and when sized the step down to the nose on the NOE boolit is erased. If I try to put the nose into the business end of the barrel they won't drop in where as some of my other boolits from same mold cast from the same alloy (mixed 20# in a pot and poured off into bigots) will drop in to the barrel all the way to the driving band.

Will add that some have been water dropped from mold, heat treated, or powder coated. Rather frustrating and I'm on the verge of going back to the Lee c225-55-fn boolit and enjoying the decent accuracy I've reached there.

[GunFun]

Several of the Lee sizers I bought were undersized. To me that's a plus, because then I can hone them up to what I want. I finish with 2K grit automotive sand paper wrapped around a mandril with tape, and a bit of light oil. Just tight enough that a drill will turn it. Gets a mirror finish and palpably smoother operation.

[autopilotmp]

Well made it out to the range to try out some of the NOE 225 70rn boolits. This was a ladder test to find a load that functions and groups fairly well. I don't really have a specific MOA goal per say but good enough I can count on consistent hits on approx 8" plates.

Mold: Noe 225-72-rn-gc
Alloy: Copper enriched pure lead mixed 1/1 with COWW (used penny/CuSO4 method)
Cooling Method: Water dropped from mold
Lube: carnuba blue
GC: PM checkmaker amerimax flashing
Size: 225
Distance: 100 yards

These were not weight sorted, only test done was to make sure the nose fit my barrel up to the driving bands so that it would go fully into battery. The following groups were shot from a bench with bag using a 5x scope. Circles on target are 1.5" in diameter. I shot 6 groups starting with 19.5gn h4895 because that is where I started with this boolit a while back (earlier in this thread). I shot an "example" group with the current load I have been using for rifle shoots currently. The main reason I wanted to switch to this boolit is that I am under the impression I could get better accuracy from the heavier boolit as well as increased pressure for rifle function. Also was having issues with the lee boolit's nose hitting the rifling and keeping the rifle from going fully into battery, really couldn't go much shorter without crimping past the driving band.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/lee55%2019.5gn_zps9gqpiqdo.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/lee55%2019.5gn_zps9gqpiqdo.jpg.html)
This is the example group of the lee 55gn, COWW, WD, Alum GC, carnuba Blue, 19.5gn h4895. Not super but if I were to weight sort the boolits they shoot under to 2.5 MOA.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/19.5gn_zpsghqvxfez.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/19.5gn_zpsghqvxfez.jpg.html)
This is 19.5gn h4895 and is better than the lee boolit for sure.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20gn_zpszsy5fpom.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20gn_zpszsy5fpom.jpg.html)
This is 20gn h4895 still not bad some horizontal stringing.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20.5gn_zpsvxlpnuvp.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20.5gn_zpsvxlpnuvp.jpg.html)
This is 20.5gn h4895 not a bad group at all, remember these are not weight sorted.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/21gn_zpsjla7tjok.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/21gn_zpsjla7tjok.jpg.html)
this is 21gn h4895 and things are starting to open up.

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/21.5gn_zpse1fm4tq4.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/21.5gn_zpse1fm4tq4.jpg.html)
Lastly this is 21.5gn h4895. I really thought about just saving the components here but wanted to see how bad it would get. Yeah pretty bad here 8/10 on the paper.

I have a couple things I want to try for next outing:
1. Some out of the COWW WD alloy to see if the copper is doing me a solid or just wasting my time.
2. Have some thinner aluminum flashing for the GCs
3. May weight sort some after narrowing the window a little more on the powder charge just to see how much accuracy I can wring out.

I was away from the load development for a while but I've put about 1k of the lee 55gn boolits through my rifle with no leading (some pc but vast majority were conventional lube). Had some serious carbon build up on the bolt that needed a some elbow grease to remove. Think that carbon and the nose of the lee boolit were causing the bolt to lock up just out of battery. I was shooting a local paper fun shoot for rifles engaging from 7-150 yards. Had very little confidence in the bulk load out at 150 (weight sorted is a different story), but had no problems with the 100 yard shots on the head/upper torso steel target. Anyways there will be more of that type of shooting in my future so I am trying to nail down a boolit load combo that works well for these types of engagements. Thanks for following along.

Again please feel free add comments or questions.

[autopilotmp]

Another trip to the range today, touching on the use of a thinner alum GC that I mentioned in the last post. This time shooting 5 shot groups to get a general since if it was going to make a difference. NOE 225-70 rn, H4895 powder as usual this time 19.5 and 20.5 loads were used, no weight sort, carnuba blue lube, sized 225, oal 2.247. Full function, no leading, no stoppages. Checks were made using patmarlins 22 checkmaker with amerimax .014 and some really old rolled alum that measures .010.

100yds with my AR and a 5x scope

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20190615_135608_zpsdls8vwdh.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20190615_135608_zpsdls8vwdh.jpg.html)
19.5 grains H4895, .014 alum check

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20190615_135649_zpsns512hob.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20190615_135649_zpsns512hob.jpg.html)
19.5 grains H4895, .010 alum check

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20190615_135720_zpsjokoehc1.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20190615_135720_zpsjokoehc1.jpg.html)
20.5 grains H4895, .014 alum check

https://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20190615_135753_zpst0rlt99m.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20190615_135753_zpst0rlt99m.jpg.html)
20.5 grains H4895, .010 alum check

I would say the results are pretty clear that the thinner check works better and I need to switch over.

1. Get better scope (possibly I really only wanted this for gun games but progress makes me want to see how deep this rabbit hole goes)
2. Ladder from 19.5 to 20.5 to find that sweet spot
3. stretch the legs a bit more (have range to 300yds but this will require the above better scope)


really happy with these results, am interested in running these over a chrono someday. the lee 55 at 19.5 was running @2100fps so these should be in the ballpark. Thanks again for looking, feel free to chime in with questions, comments, concerns, all are welcome here.

[parkerhale1200]

stop dracon filling and use lovex d060 start with 15.8 grain
0.5 grain increments
weigh your bullets after gs them and before lube or pc
the on;y difference there is, is between 100 and 300 yards.
don't do 25 or 50 yards.
no need to use the j word stuff at 300
you will be fine at 300, BUT:
at 300 make sure to have ALL your boolits at the same hardness and at the same weight.
make sure that your powder is also at the same weight...0.01 grain level.
those boolits are just to light.
get rcbs casts if you get the chance...it change my world for shooting

thanks to oldgsm i know this regarding my ar