WW296 - Good for anything other than jacketed loads?

[Kraschenbirn]

I've been offered a couple pounds of WW296 as part of a trade deal but have been unable to locate any load data for cast boolits. All my manuals...when 296/H-110 is even listed...show only top-end loads for jacketed.

I know that H110 was originally a milsurp powder developed for .30 carbine and, in my IHMSA days, burned quite a bit of 296 under 170 gr. Sierras in a .357 Contender but, otherwise, have no experience with the stuff. These days, though, I shoot 95% cast (at 'moderate' velocities) and, if it has no application in that direction, can't see any value in having it sitting on the shelf.

Bill

[dannyd]

w296 and h110 are the same thing now

[toallmy]

410 shotgun

[Kraschenbirn]

H-110 and W-W 296 have always been the same. The original H-110 - introduced to the civilian market in the early 1970s - was surplus and pull-down from military .30 Carbine ammo and was manufactured by the Olin-Mathison Company, owned by Winchester at the time.

Bill

[dragon813gt]

It's for top end loads. If you want to load midrange loads it's the wrong powder. But it works great w/ cast bullets if you want to push them to their full potential.

It's one of "the powders" for cycling an AR in 300 BLK.

[turtlezx]

I use it for the 762x39 cast- cycles the sks ok

22 hornet and 218bee jacketed

[ShooterAZ]

I use W296 & H110 with gas checked 44Mag, 357Mag, 30Carbine, and 300BLK loads and it works well in full power loads for these. It is one of those powders that doesn't play well when reduced however.

[Kraschenbirn]

... It is one of those powders that doesn't play well when reduced however.

Yeah, that's what my past experience and everything I've found lately is telling me. According to the notes in back of my old IHMSA reloading handbook, I was pushing a 170 gr. Sierra 'Silhouette' FMJ at close to 1500 fps out of a 10" Contender for the turkeys and rams but shot a 158 gr. JSP over a compressed charge of IMR4227 for the chickens and pigs...probably because I couldn't get a reduced load to work with 296 and the heavier bullet.

Bill

[P Flados]

For most users, WW296 + cast + moderate does not sound so good.

For me, I would probably call a "low end of normal" charge of WW296 with my Lee 140s in a 357 magnum case as "moderate". Sounds like a good practice load for IHMSA standing shooting.

Now for a more general discussion of WW296 and cast. It is now one of my "go to" choices for full power cast boolit shooting. I have put a substantial volume of cast boolits through 357 mags and 357 maximum handguns (Dan Wesson mag, Dan Wesson max, Contender 8.5" mag, Contender 10" max, Contender 14" max) at full power. For full power loads I have used both WW296 and I4227.

Until I started using Powder Coat (PC) at the end of last year, I was VERY frustrated. I am real close to a "either cast of nothing" kind of guy. I wanted full power loads so I could try to get back into IHMSA. However, leading was so bad there would be no way I was going to get through even a single round of 40 targets and retain accuracy without scrubbing the bore.

About the time I started using PC, I also got the Lee 200 gr mold and I started making better boolits (thanks to this forum). Even though the 200 gr Lee was designed for a gas check, I started without them just to see if they were really needed. It did not take long for me to "declare victory" over my frustration. See post 65 & 66 of:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?283606-New-LEE-design-358-200-RF

Since that time, I have only found one bullet that had a problems running full power 357 mag/max PC loads. I have a 158 gr Lee tumble lube RN that does ok with hard lead but not with soft lead. Otherwise, all loads for my PC boolits from Lee molds (140 gr, 150 gr & 200 gr) have done well (accurate and zero leading) at full power even with "medium soft" lead (50% pure, 50% COWW for example). With PC on all full power loads and BLL on 38 specials, my post shooting routine is pretty much just look at the bore of each gun, smile, and skip even getting out the cleaning rod. Also, so far I have never had to break down and buy any gas checks.

As I was working through PC boolit load testing, I pretty much got to the bottom (say 0.25 lbs or so) of the my 4 lb can of WW296. Most all of my general purpose full power shooting this year has been I4227. Even though I have been doing ok relying on I4227, there were some boolits-loads where I think WW296 was better.

My satisfaction with WW296 for cast boolits is reflected in my recent purchase of 8 lbs of the slightly less expensive "same stuff" (H110) from Powder Valley (this was combined with 8 lbs of TiteGroup for 38s). I expect my son Matt (the Dan Wesson 357 mag listed above is actually his gun that he bought with his own money) to inherit the left overs of the recent purchase.

I did get in a couple of IHMSA matches this summer. My results were as expected (poor) given my long absence from the sport and minimal ability to get in the needed long distance practice shooting. However, the problem was not the guns, loads or boolits.

[fivefang]

Krashenbirn, Hi are you sure? I think .3carbine powder is WC820, or are they all3 the same?, Fivefang

[DougGuy]

W296 and H110 are the same, made in the same plant just labeled differently for Hodgdon and Winchester.

W296 shines with a high load density under a heavy for caliber boolit. Part of the reason it works so well is that the heavier boolits have more mass and it takes longer to get them moving so there is an increase in dwell time which allows more of the powder to ignite, and the pressure remains high compared to faster powders as the boolit begins to move down the barrel.

Any straight walled case with a heavy boolit will often be brought to the highest energy level possible with W296/H110 and it works well in the large bores.

[dale2242]

I have used 296/H110 in thousands of 44 Mag and 357 Mag heavy loads with plain based and GCed cast boolits with excellent results....dale

[lotech]

It works great in full power .357 and .44 Magnum loads with cast bullets. Accuracy equals #2400 loads, but muzzle flash is considerably greater, perhaps to the point of being objectionable to some shooters.

[odfairfaxsub]

Where is 44man on the issue. He shoots tons of it in full power loads

[toallmy]

I have been holding on to a half dozen 1 pounders that I picked up for 410 when I couldn't find h 110 but have put off running it in the 357 until I picked up some mag primers , I use win small pistol primer for all my loading so I just picked up a couple hundred mag primers to try it out with . Haven't got around to it yet but I'm ready . I keep looking at the can of 158 gr swc . Soon it will be time to bring the wood pile to the yard and then I can just walk out back to try something new . I love the fall weather .

[Tenbender]

Works GREAT in 357 Mag and Max.

[358 Win]

I wish I had a nickle for every cast boolet I've shot with WW296/H110 both plain base and gas checked. I use it in my 44 Mag handgun and rifle. Works superb in my .357 Magnum handguns and rifles as well. Only two loads ever get shot in my Super Blackhawk and H&R Shikari with my 250 grain plain based 429421. They are 6.5 grains of Red Dot @ 809 fps and 22.0 grains of WW296 @ 1170 fps. The H&R Shikari does 1010 fps and 1740 fps respectively with it's 24" barrel. The .357 Magnum handgun and rifle loads are too extensive to list here and those loads get shot at 10 times the volume of the 44 Magnum loads.

358 Win

[toallmy]

Can someone with experience tell me about the Winchester small pistol standard vrs magnum primer with win 296 . I understand primer ignition and the use of to ignite different powders but the books go overboard on the mag primer issue with 296 in the 357 . In the 80s -90s I used a lot of 296 in 44 mag and the 30 carbine and found it was fine but I used mag primers and small rifle . Just curious , I will probably try them both .

[dragon813gt]

Winchester SP primers pull double duty. They are rated for both magnum and non-magnum rounds. Personally I always use a mag primer w/ H110/W296. The powder is to erratic and I want to insure it light off each and every time. I know people have worked up loads w/ standard SP primers. And I'm one that doesn't mind working up a load for a powder that isn't listed in a manual. But I will always use the primer type recommended by the manufacturer.

[Handloader109]

I'll add one other load 22tcm, shot both 40gr cast Gas checked and pc at 11gr (about a full load fyi) with good success. Loud, flashy and accurate.

[Moonie]

I use it for 357 mag, 44 mag, 300 BO and 45 Colt Ruger only loads. All cast.

[jeepyj]

I have a 686 setup for just full house loads with 296 GCed 358156 with carnuaba red. Very accurate, no lead, pile of fun at dusk watching the flame ball.
Jeepyj

[dragon813gt]

296 pales in comparison to Blue Dot when it comes to flash :beer: