Having some struggles

[theTastyCat]

Hey all - thanks to this fine forum I started PCing maybe two years ago with my HF ESPC gun and HF matte black on some hollow point 45 boolits nose-down on a jig. I'm now trying to load some round-nose boolits (135-gr. 9mm) for the first time, so I flipped the tray over and covered it with NSAF. Looked pretty good out of the oven:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/IMG_20161012_204056782_zpstznfi6mw.jpg (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/thetastycat/media/IMG_20161012_204056782_zpstznfi6mw.jpg.html)

Unfortunately, when I went to remove the boolits to size them, quite as I snapped them off the tray, a good pit of PC near the base would come off too. Here's what it ended up looking like.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/IMG_20161012_204031833_zpspwtnbyht.jpg (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/thetastycat/media/IMG_20161012_204031833_zpspwtnbyht.jpg.html)

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/IMG_20161012_204012784_zpsbgrycw5v.jpg (http://s930.photobucket.com/user/thetastycat/media/IMG_20161012_204012784_zpsbgrycw5v.jpg.html)

Will these lead? Do I just need to scrap them all and start over?

Somewhere during this process it occurred to me that some guys on here had once been talking about fender washers and the like to lift these flat bases off the surface - perhaps to prevent this very thing?

Or maybe it's time to just tumble...though since I've already got the ESPC setup, I'd like to do this way if I can - and they're so much prettier as well!!

Would be deeply grateful for help as always.

[OS OK]

178672
From the looks of that tray I think you are using way too much powder and you are having skirts on all the casts.
I tumble the pistol rounds so I can have the flat base covered as well.
Yes...I pick them up with tweezers after I dump the entire tub of BB's in a tray and slide it back and forth a few times to get them to all roll parallell to me, easy pickings and they recoat themselves where they have bumped into each other. I tap my tweezers on the tray to knock off the excess powder and I never have trouble with skirts. I also use parchment paper too, just like it better than foil.
Now if speed and time savings are a driving factor with you, go to elvis ammo (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq2Xh4H4VnMjZemwjTLW0w)he has a speedy method of coating and baking in a pile then dumping into water to keep them from sticking together...just another option for you with Elvis.
Sizing is another thing to consider but you didn't ask about that.

charlie

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, I had to use a *bunch* of powder, plus I still got several that didn't have good enough coverage. Although my whole damn work bench, and thus the floor as well and by extension the floors throughout the house, seem to get plenty of powder all over everything.

AND my HF ESPC gun shocked me about a hundred times - it was arcing pretty bad on some of the wiring. I finally figured out how to hold it so I wouldn't get shocked, but this is wearing thin. I guess that's what I get for buying tools from North Korea.

If I did tumble like this, can I just size as usual after?

And HF powder is a no-go for tumbling, is that right? Where do you get your powder?

Sure appreciate the response!

[OS OK]

You can get your power right here in the forum vendors section, Smoke4320 if I remember correctly...nobody sells better powder, he even has sample packages and he'll tell you whether it'll tumble or not.
Ok...sizing after PC'ing...depends on how much you are going to reduce the diameter overall and how hard the lead is also...generally I try not to size anything 12-16 BHN more than .002" in one whack. Mostly everything I cast pistolwise is less than 12-13 BHN for hi velocity and as low as 7.4 BHN for the HP's so I can get away with .003" if I dry lube them and go moderately slow otherwise you can push that lead back and cause a mess at the bottom of the cast...lead skirts.
I'm in the habbit of sizing before PC'ing and again after...I'm not pressed for time so I just do it that way.

That's funny you getting zapped, it sure gets your attention and makes you gun-shy too!
I'm a retired electrician...I damn sure know about zapps, especially having worked on radar power supplies...ZaaaBaaP! Draw an arc over an inch long and made of electric blue fire too! Funny huh?

[jcren]

+1 on smokes powders. I shake and bake, but to avoid that, stick a small nut smaller than the base of the bullet under the foil so the powder edge runs over the corner of the base.

[rockshooter]

this is one place where bevel base bullets are helpful
Loren

[theTastyCat]

Thanks, all - makes good sense. So just so I'm clear, when you shake and bake, even the *bottom* of the boolit that bakes facing down against the foil still gets coated well? That's some fancy magic right there.

So looked at some results with Smoke's stuff and it really looks pretty fantastic - may put up my ESPC gun for a while and just try shake n' bake! Sure would be great to do away with all that mess and get good results every time. Not to mention something must be screwy with my setup anyway since I have to use a ton of powder to get a good coating on all the boolits.

Thinking jet black since it's said to coat well - man, this is going to be fun!!

[OS OK]

Part of partial coverage and bad coverage is many times a bad ground wire on the tray.

[jcren]

Try some of smokes clear too. Covers easily and flows better without pigment. Looks like powdered donuts going in, come out looking like wet lead.

[tzzler44]

I also like to ESPC relatively thick. I put the bullets on aluminum foil to spray, then transfer them w/ forceps to a silicone mat to cure. No skirts and no sticking

[theTastyCat]

Well that's a good idea too - I love this forum.

[454PB]

You might consider using parchment paper, that's what I use and I can simply dump the baked coated boolits onto a towel when they are cooled......no sticking at all.

[Walter Laich]

when they are cooled......no sticking at all.

that's the key I learned, too. I tumble lube and use the 'paper bowl with holes in the bottom' method to be able to pick up the bullets easier

[popper]

Reminds me of when I started with HF white & 40SW. Wasn't even using NSAAF then. Just dump them off before the PC completely cools, then size nose first.

[theTastyCat]

Wow...so just to recap from everything I'm picking up -

1. Cast
2. Cool
3. Acetone wash (unless freshly cast)
4. Shake
5. Transfer to tray covered with parchment paper with tweezers or similar instrument
6. Bake
7. Cool enough to touch
8. Resize
9. Load
10. Smile

That about right?

Thanks guys!

[tzzler44]

Sounds like you've got it, if you're intent on doing shake-n-bake. The one thing I'd suggest is pick up a silicone baking mat instead of the parchment paper. I've used the same silicone mat at least a few dozen times and it's still going strong.

[OS OK]

9.5 Shoot

[theTastyCat]

Ah! Silicone mat - is it worth getting a $20 one vs. a $6 one? Then would just put that on top of the tray...sounds pretty simple to me!

[Eddie17]

I tumble PC and use Parchment Paper, pick bullets out of the black air soft BBs. Boolits come out great.178713
178714
Smokes powder is far better then HF, IMOP!

[tzzler44]

Ah! Silicone mat - is it worth getting a $20 one vs. a $6 one?

Cheap is fine. I ordered this 2 pack off amazon and was able to get two separate mats for my toaster oven out of a single one (see picture). The other one is actually used for baking normal food... imagine that!

178715



Also here are a few .30-30 bullets I ESPC'd. No sticking, no skirting. Coated after seating the gas checks.


178716

[fredj338]

I also shake & bake, bullets go base down on a small wire grid basket used for kitchen organizers. The wire is very fine, sticks a bit but the bullets pop right off, no flash at all.

[theTastyCat]

Ok, oh my gosh...just watched this one of Elvis Ammo's videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqLzWzKfes

...in which he shakes and bakes a bunch of 300BLK boolits, then just sifts them on a mesh tray, and puts it straight into the oven. When he takes it out after 400 degrees/20 min, they're of course all stuck to the mesh and to each other, so he just breaks them apart, and they actually come out looking good...HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE??? Would this work with Smoke's powders as well?? But I really do like the idea of just throwing a mesh tray right in - and looks like there's almost no powder waste.

Also, he transferred the boolits into the plastic tub with his hand - I've always heard this was a no-no and would prevent powder adhesion...is that a myth??

BUT, the biggest thing about this that is exciting is that you could really just bake a whole pile of boolits all at once - would be nice to run the oven once and do 200 boolits at a time!!!

Anybody else played with this at all?

Many thanks!

[OS OK]

When the PC melts and gravity pulls it down...if they are on their bases then it runs equally on all sides towards base...on the other hand if they are sideways you will have more on the bottom half than the top...that's lopsided weight wise, I don't know how much difference it makes but at distance if they are not concentric weight wise I would imagine you'd get fliers...don't know for sure cause I stand mine on the base.

[theTastyCat]

Makes perfect sense. Think I'll do BBs, then use tweezers to set them all on their bases. Can't take that much longer and can only help!

[HABCAN]

I can get 100's of FEET of NSAF for the price of just one silicone mat. The nearest place to buy parchment paper is 72 miles away. One piece of the NS foil has done many 100's of PC'd boolits for me, and is still going strong. YMMV.

[theTastyCat]

Noted! I've already got a roll, so I'll start with it. I think the problem was overspray from ESPCing building up on the foil - seems like that wouldn't happen at all with this method. Thanks!

[wyofool]

TastyCat, you should take a look at this thread if you haven't already. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?318958-Cat-shouldn-t-be-used-for-powder-coating