Ponsness Warren MetalMatic P-200 -or- Metallic II ?

[Brian Albin]

I have been reading favorable reviews of the Metallic II here in the forums. I have not yet found a comparison of these two PW presses one against the other.
What can you tell me that I might understand which is better for one situation or another?
　
I am asking for my Brother who would like to load many pistol ctgs in a short time with as little hassle as possible. His ctgs are 45 LC & 454 Cassull.

Thank you, Brian

[AbitNutz]

I have both. Does P/W still make them? The MM2 is a more open design and suited more to a little bit bigger cartridges. The one problem I found on the P200 is that the bottom plate is alumimum and flexes. It causes the roll crimp to come out uneven. The MM2 is a much more expensive machine, much more rigid.

I actually load 454 Casull on my MM2 sometimes. If you use a through powder expander (Lyman) on your powder measure, you can size, expand/charge, seat and crimp in separate operations. I don't like to seat and crimp on the same operation.

You can load surprisingly fast on either machine...The priming systems on both machines work and are pretty easy to use. They are well made but given the choice, I would go with the MM2...however, given the cost...can't you get a Dillon 550B?

[Kevin Rohrer]

The P200 holds two set of dies, but is geared to pistol and small rifle cartridges only. The MII (I own one), is pretty kewl and loads everything.

Caveat: The primer system is odd, and the tube holds an small number of primers (<100). However, the Quick-Measure (pictured below) works well w/ it and complements the press.

178520

[pauly]

G'day from Downunder . [smilie=s:

G'day , I use both the Mettalic II ( I have two one each for large and small primers ) and the P200 and I find after working out a sequence solution ( I deprime on the large hole on the right hand side and have set up a new primer catcher in the large hole ) so it is 1.deprime 2.prime 3.powder 4.bullet seat 5.taper crimp
and I find it much better and faster for pistol cases.
Sorry I cant get my pictures to upload ( I am stupid I guess :( )

Regards Paul . :)

[AbitNutz]

Oh...also, my P200 came with a window seating die. Kinda cool.

[bobthenailer]

The P-200 which is made for pistol the M-2 will handle rifle calibers as well.

My P-200 with a optional extra tool head & semi auto primer feed , I bought it perhaps 30+ years ago ? a several years before the Dillons came out factory direct.

I still use it some to load ammo for less used calibers that it would not be worth setting up the Dillon for . in the past I have loaded 223 and 308 on the P-200 but the cases were first sized in my RCBS press first , with only seating the primer, dropping the powder charge and seating the bullet with the P-200.
The P-200 can produce more than 200 rds per hr by using the semi auto primer feed along with a auto drop powder measure , I use the Dillon set up on mine ! along with a change in the factory recommended die placement in the tool head.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Met II, all the way!

Worth the money!

[AbitNutz]

The P-200 which is made for pistol the M-2 will handle rifle calibers as well.

My P-200 with a optional extra tool head & semi auto primer feed , I bought it perhaps 30+ years ago ? a several years before the Dillons came out factory direct.

I still use it some to load ammo for less used calibers that it would not be worth setting up the Dillon for . in the past I have loaded 223 and 308 on the P-200 but the cases were first sized in my RCBS press first , with only seating the primer, dropping the powder charge and seating the bullet with the P-200.
The P-200 can produce more than 200 rds per hr by using the semi auto primer feed along with a auto drop powder measure , I use the Dillon set up on mine ! along with a change in the factory recommended die placement in the tool head.

Whew! I had to re-read that...I thought you were resizing .223 and .308 on a P200. Doing that would turn a P200 into a pretzel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Definitely MMII and I just happen to have one for sale. It is nice and not used very much at all. P/M me for particulars. Dies and PM not included

Randy

[AbitNutz]

Definitely MMII and I just happen to have one for sale. It is nice and not used very much at all. P/M me for particulars. Dies and PM not included

Randy

Yeah, that should take about no time to sell. I like mine and if I didn't already have one it would be mine. They're nice machines.

[downshift]

​I would be interested in buying that press
W.R.Buchanan

[Brian Albin]

I would go with the MM2...however, given the cost...can't you get a Dillon 550B?

AbitNutz, You seem to be implying a preference for the Dillon. Did I misunderstand? Is Dillon better than Metallic II?

Thanks, Brian

[Brian Albin]

W.R. Buchanan, I will tell my Brother of your offer of the PW press and find what he wishes to do.
I Thank you for the offer.

Brian

[AbitNutz]

AbitNutz, You seem to be implying a preference for the Dillon. Did I misunderstand? Is Dillon better than Metallic II?

Thanks, Brian

Hmm...better is not exactly what I would use. Different is more like it. The 550B is a nice, reasonably priced press. You can produce lots and lots of ammo on it. I believe the Dillon to be faster and if faster is better, then I guess it's better.

Caliber changes and tuning take quite a bit more time than on the P/W. If you only shoot or mostly shoot one caliber I would choose the Dillon 550B. If I changed calibers frequently I may well choose the P/W.

[Brian Albin]

Thanks, Nutz.

While I have this thread going, Are there other progressive or high speed presses to be recommended?

Brian

[downshift]

its hard to beat a Dillon xl650 when u want to just knock out a 1000 rounds of pistol or rifle ammo I have about 33k on mine load 380,9mm,45acp,38,357,223,50beowulf,on a 650... I load 45 colt,30-30,6mm rem, on a single stage

[AbitNutz]

In my view, it's a choice between ease of changing between calibers and shear speed. The MM2 is fairly quick but easy to tune and change over. The 550B is very quick but changing over and tuning can be a chore....especially if you're going between primer sizes.

If you are going to sit down and chunk out round after round of the same caliber ammo...a Dillon anything is the way to go. If you plan to shoot several different calibers...you may spend a lot of time fiddling with the Dillon.

I have a 550B and an XL650. My 650 has the case feeder and GSI bullet feeder on it. It makes one thing...45 acp SWC...Period. However, all I do is keep bullets, cases, primers and powder in it. I never touch anything but the handle when topped up. Every time I pull the handle a loaded round drops out. It is blindingly fast...however, it would take an act of freakin' god to make me change it to another caliber.

If I need to develop a load or make a smaller run...I certainly don't reach for a die wrench and attack one of the Dillons. It's not that the Dillons are sensitive... it's just that there's a lot to do. Just changing powders can be a gigantic pain in the ****. In that case. It's best to have another complete powder measure, adjust it all on another press and then swap it out.

[Brian Albin]

W.R. Buchanan,
I just got off the phone with my Brother. He says he will not buy a press until one of his rifles sells to pay for it.
So do not hold your press for him.
Thank you.

Brian

[seagiant]

Hi,
Hmmm.......My favorite Dillon!!!!

[PB234]

I have both PW presses and suggest anyone considering them should call PW and determine their ability to support the presses.

[KMac]

Well they still make both models and offer what appears to be about 95% of the parts for them.
http://www.reloaders.com/
My wifes uncle had a P-200 that he is going to give me next time I make the trip up to where he lives. Cant wait to get it and start loading some .45 Colt and .45 ACP with it. Hoping to make the trip at Thanksgiving.

[Beebee]

I have a M2. It is my favorite press. I only use the LNL for quantity production now. Don't know anything about the p-200 but if its half the quality of my M2 you wont be disappointed.

[KMac]

The P-200 is for straight wall cartridges only. And I believe pistol straight wall cartidges at that.The M2 is for straight or bottleneck cartidges. The P-200 only has one ram where the M2 has 2. The M2 is the newer, bigger brother to the P-200.
The quality on the P-200 I believe is on par with the M2, but the M2 is a lot stronger. I think they use the same primer system. Actually they look exactly the same but they have different part numbers.
The P-200 does have 8 holes on its die head but you can only use 4 at a time. Take out 2 screws and remove the die head and rotate it, put the screws back in and you can use the other 4 holes which can be dies or a powder measure. The M2 head has 4 holes for dies or powder measure. On the M2 you can buy additional die heads and load your other caliber in it and swap out heads when you want to change calibers. If I was going to buy one I would get the M2 because it so much stronger, but it does have a MSRP of $575 where the P-200 is MSRP of $350. But since my P-200 is free, I am going in that direction.

[KMac]

I have a M2. It is my favorite press. I only use the LNL for quantity production now. Don't know anything about the p-200 but if its half the quality of my M2 you wont be disappointed.

Just curious if you use the primer system on your M2 and how it works if you do. I use a Lee hand primer and was wondering if the primer feed system on the M2 and P-200 worked good enough to use instead of the Lee Hand Prime as it would save some time.

[pauly]

G'day from Downunder .[smilie=s:

G'day All , the P200 has a 10 hole turret and they are easily changed ( I have 3 turrets for mine ) this press has two shafts that the turret is attached to with cap head screws , the priming tube setup is used manually to drop a primer in the priming cup before seating and the tubes hold 100 primers ( small or large both tubes are supplied ) I find it easy to use and much prefer it to my Mettalic ll presses ( I have two ) for pistol ammo once you get the sequence right it is very quick to use .

Regards Paul . :)

[KMac]

-----

[W.R.Buchanan]

The priming system on the MMII is simple and works great once you figure out exactly how it works.

This is exactly how it works:

The primer tube is filled from the top.

There is a collet on the bottom of the tube for either large or small primers, and it is held in place and closed by an O-ring.

When the shuttle is all the way to the left where you would normally do the crimping operation, when you run the shuttle up it places the primer bushing with a tapered end in proximity to the primer tube.

You then push down on the primer tube which spreads the jaws open on the Primer Bushing Taper and drops 4 primers into the shuttle. Or you can do it every time, or as often as you want.

The shuttle holds 4 primers and each time you move the shuttle to the right all the way, it drops one primer into the primer ram.

Station One is the Sizing /Decapping Station.

Then when you move the shuttle to the Second Station (Priming and Charging) and push the shuttle down the case is primed, then the up stroke takes the case to the powder measure.

Third Station Seats the Boolit, and Forth Station Crimps.

Then since the shuttle is under the primer drop you can push down on the Primer Tube and drop one more primer into the Shuttle. It will only drop a primer if the shuttle is up as it requires the taper on the primer bushing to open the jaws of the collet on the Primer Tube.

As far as the type of powder measure you can use whatever you want. There is an adapter for most measures or you can use a Dillon Measure with the Powder Funnel and all for expanding case mouths. This would be the way to go for loading pistol rounds for sure.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions on how this machine works.

They are excellent Semi Progressive Machines and will last for a long time with only minor care and keeping them covered. You can easily do 200 rounds per hour with it.

Randy

[KMac]

The priming system on the MMII is simple and works great once you figure out exactly how it works.

This is exactly how it works:

The primer tube is filled from the top.

There is a collet on the bottom of the tube for either large or small primers, and it is held in place and closed by an O-ring.

When the shuttle is all the way to the left where you would normally do the crimping operation, when you run the shuttle up it places the primer bushing with a tapered end in proximity to the primer tube.

You then push down on the primer tube which spreads the jaws open on the Primer Bushing Taper and drops 4 primers into the shuttle. Or you can do it every time, or as often as you want.

The shuttle holds 4 primers and each time you move the shuttle to the right all the way, it drops one primer into the primer ram.

Station One is the Sizing /Decapping Station.

Then when you move the shuttle to the Second Station (Priming and Charging) and push the shuttle down the case is primed, then the up stroke takes the case to the powder measure.

Third Station Seats the Boolit, and Forth Station Crimps.

Then since the shuttle is under the primer drop you can push down on the Primer Tube and drop one more primer into the Shuttle. It will only drop a primer if the shuttle is up as it requires the taper on the primer bushing to open the jaws of the collet on the Primer Tube.

As far as the type of powder measure you can use whatever you want. There is an adapter for most measures or you can use a Dillon Measure with the Powder Funnel and all for expanding case mouths. This would be the way to go for loading pistol rounds for sure.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions on how this machine works.

They are excellent Semi Progressive Machines and will last for a long time with only minor care and keeping them covered. You can easily do 200 rounds per hour with it.

Randy

Randy,
Thanks for the detailed explanation on the priming system. I am going to give it a try.
Sounds like it will work great and save me time.
This is such a great forum with the members taking the time to help each other.