.351 wsl

[richhodg66]

A few years ago, Kansas started a two-day antlerless season which they now call the pre-rut antlerless season. For the past several years, I always had a work commitment pretty much every weekend of September and early October, so never really got to partake (it also has screwed up my muzzle loader season, but it was way too hot and buggy this year anyway). This year I got to get out and successfully use a 1907 Winchester and some cast loads. I need to work with this one more, but the old rifle worked fine.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/deer%202%202016_zpskhmvuk6i.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/richhodg66/deer%201%202016_zpsbuakprf8.jpg

[timspawn]

Nice!

[Fenring]

Now that's cool!

[shoot-n-lead]

Nice!

Good eatin', right there!

My friend has the same rifle.

[RugerFan]

Well done! Very interesting rifle.

[JeffinNZ]

Nice. I know where there is a .401 for sale locally but need another project like a hole in the head. Also hate chasing brass especially rare brass.

[tdoyka]

very nice!!!

[.455 Webley]

Someone forgot to tell that deer that the .351 is not powerful enough to kill a him. I get tired of listening to people talk down about this rifle and cartridge. Was it hard to track down a scope base for yours? Mine is drilled and tapped but had no base.

[richhodg66]

This one actually came to me with the scope base attached, so I don't really know. Seems like a base that would fit any flat top receiver would work.

If I get serious about this rifle, I will have to get some of those off set rings that allow it to be moved forward, the eye relief with this set up is way too far back.

[skeettx]

Richhodg66, can you move the turrets of the scope in front of the front scope ring?



Or use a weaver extension set of rings

Mike

[ammohead]

Looks like if you do as Skeettx suggests that you run out of scope on the rear ring. I had this problem with a Marlin once. You can take a bastard file and very carefully using the edge of the file cut a groove across the top of the base to make clearance for the ring mounting screw. This will allow re positioning of the rear ring a bit forward. Or look for a piccitinny style base that offers lots of grooves.

I love the look of an older weaver scope on the vintage rifles but sometimes the placement of the turret makes mounting one problematic.

[white eagle]

congrats on the deer should be fine table fare
nice rifle never seen one like it before
the cartridge either what is it like a 357 max?
woefully under powered I see.

[richhodg66]

Both dropped where they stood, but were very close range and from a high tree stand, so both shots impacted spine even if they didn't break it. I almost chose to bring one of my slug guns or a handgun out that morning and any of them would have been adequate given the conditions, but a 180 grain bullet at 1700 FPS+ isn't too far behind the .35 Remington.

For anybody interested, I used the old (real old) Ideal 350293 mold designed for the .35 WSL, which is plain based, but I got some soda can plain base gas checks and sized with a .352 die Buckshot made for me a few years ago. The recommended best powder was 4227, but I didn't have any so used 2400. The bullet was cast of 50/50 WW/pure with 2% tin. Since I loaded these, I picked up a 350447 which is a light bullet designed for the .348 Winchester which I think might work better, haven't cast any with it yet.

The rear scope ring isn't the problem, the front one is. Seems I have some of those extension rings around somewhere, I actually got them for a Marlin with a similar problem but was thinking of going peep sights on it anyway, so maybe they'll get used on this one.

[taco650]

I love seeing an old unusual rifle like yours being used to fill the freezer. So many of those 351 & 401's are just safe queens. They were ahead of their time and under appreciated IMO. Wish I had a .401, the search for the brass would be the beginning of the fun! Congrats!

[richhodg66]

I think Grumpa makes the brass. After that, any cast bullet for the .41 magnum would work, in a lot of respects, it would be easier to load and shoot for than the .351.

[TXGunNut]

Cool rifle, nice fat does. Nicely done, congrats!

[OnHoPr]

I'll bet that ole piece of deer huntin history could talk it would be doing the [smilie=w:. Well, you got some venison viddles. Very nice. What's the ballistics compared to the 357 maximum, is it super dooper.lol One thing I noticed was the sling needs to be put in a water puddle for a day then cleaned or dried then oiled up real good to give it that matching vintage look or get an old 1" army sling off of fleabay. Something like plaid shirt and striped pants, ah don't pay no attention to those thoughts.

[Orchard6]

Nice! Now you've got me thinking about taking out the '10 in 401 wsl this year!

[mcdaniel.mac]

That Winchester reminds me strongly of a BAR, are they related in design? It's an attractive rifle either way.

[richhodg66]

These are straight blow back, so no similarity to the BAR, they do look a bit similar. If you ever pick one up, you'll see how heavy a straight blowback design has to be to handle anything reasonably powerful

[Landy]

If you ever pick one up, you'll see how heavy a straight blowback design has to be to handle anything reasonably powerful

While all of the other critiques of the '07 and '10 and their rounds were 9/10 gibberish this one is valid.

I'd add congrats, but every delicious bite of venison would make it superfluous. Enjoy.

[richhodg66]

Son cooked the two hearts this afternoon and I just got done eating one, good stuff.

This is year six of using cast in "small bores" for me. I did it for years with muzzle loaders, but that's no trick. Actually, this is exactly the kind of shot I usually try to set myself up for, very close, preferably from a tree and at an unalarmed deer. This rifle and load was just about perfection for the way I like to hunt. I've had a stand in this very tree for about 12 years now and have hunted out of it most of them, except for when I was deployed, killed eight or ten deer out of it. It's a great spot and I can almost count on getting a close shot the first few times I'm in it until they wise up (this was the first time I have sat in it since last December). The real problem is it's way down in some deep, thick stuff with steep sides for a long way all around and is almost a mile from where I can park the truck. I've done it before, but not twice in one day and I turned 50 last Spring and ain't the man I used to be. Gonna have to get some kind a machine to do it, use a boat, or butcher it out on the spot and carry it out in a backpack a couple of trips at a time (if in the morning and I have time, this would be preferred).

I have butchered out all my own deer for several years now, but that just wasn't happening this time when I had a processor close that has a walk in cooler I can leave them in, so these deer won't be cost effective, but now that I have some venison in the freezer, I can hunt antlers which I oddly have gotten the urge to do this year. The crossbow will be the tool for that one.

[hodg0610]

I love to see an old timer like this brought back to life. They are cool rifles. The triggers on those things are terrible, and like you say, the rifles are heavy for their size. Loads of fun to shoot though.

Just got done checking out the Accurate Mold for the 351. Might have to pick this up.

Did you manage to find your brass after this?

[richhodg66]

All but one. Good to see you on here, bro.

[taco650]

Mike Venturino did an article about these rifles a couple issues back. It was very interesting! He also reloaded some in the article IIRC. Its a pure blow-back design I think and the recoil springs are stout by necessity. Still nice to see it out in the field.

Sounds like your tree stand is in a great location. Lack of accessibility makes it a prime spot to hunt. I'm going to try one of those units this year and I get the over 50 thing too LOL!

[Coopaloop86]

I have a .351wsl that I have never fired. Interested in hearing about whether brass is available to buy as I have no access to machinery to make my own. Would love to take this old safe queen out and use it for plinking.

[Drm50]

I have never seen a 351 scoped. I shot one deer with a 351 back in the 70s, results: it was dead.
I shot up a lot of 351 ammo back then, and didn't even pick up the brass. That's what happens when you are young and dumb and getting free ammo. Came from a prison that used them before they got government m16s. I wish I had just kept all the magazines I had. There is a 401
in a pawn shop in Moundsville,WVa. Terrible condition, wanted $600+ for it. I have shot 401, but
never owned or hunted with one. Both these cartridges are good enough for deer in the eastern
woods. It would interest me to see the groups you shoot with the scope. I always sight my 44s
in at 60yds for practical deer sight in.

[mcdaniel.mac]

These are straight blow back, so no similarity to the BAR, they do look a bit similar. If you ever pick one up, you'll see how heavy a straight blowback design has to be to handle anything reasonably powerful
Ah, I see. I looked up .351 WSL loads and it looks like it falls in .357 Magnum range with a 180gr bullet. That's a real neat combo all told.

[hodg0610]

Coopaloop, 351 WSL brass is available, but pretty expensive. Check out Buffalo Arms. They usually have a couple of listings for it.

[Battis]

For my .35 WSL, I use .38 Special brass (no extractor groove cut).
For my .351 WSL, I use .357 mag brass (no extractor groove cut). Case head diameter reduced slightly with a drill press and file. I use 38/357 dies on both. Both neck sized with .223 die.
For my .401 WSL I use 414 Super Mag brass, cut to length, head diameter reduced (no extractor groove cut). Western Bullets sells .401 (sized to .406) 250 gr bullets, Accurate Molds sells a 205 gr bullet mold. Both work very well.
IMR 4227 in all my WSLs.
Photo taken at the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody, WY last August.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5353_zpsu6y4yjtb.jpg

[Orchard6]

For my .35 WSL, I use .38 Special brass (no extractor groove cut).
For my .351 WSL, I use .357 mag brass (no extractor groove cut). Case head diameter reduced slightly with a drill press and file. I use 38/357 dies on both. Both neck sized with .223 die.
For my .401 WSL I use 414 Super Mag brass, cut to length, head diameter reduced (no extractor groove cut). Western Bullets sells .401 (sized to .406) 250 gr bullets, Accurate Molds sells a 205 gr bullet mold. Both work very well.
IMR 4227 in all my WSLs.
Photo taken at the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody, WY last August.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5353_zpsu6y4yjtb.jpg

What dies are you using for the .401?

[mwells72774]

For my .35 WSL, I use .38 Special brass (no extractor groove cut).
For my .351 WSL, I use .357 mag brass (no extractor groove cut). Case head diameter reduced slightly with a drill press and file. I use 38/357 dies on both. Both neck sized with .223 die.
For my .401 WSL I use 414 Super Mag brass, cut to length, head diameter reduced (no extractor groove cut). Western Bullets sells .401 (sized to .406) 250 gr bullets, Accurate Molds sells a 205 gr bullet mold. Both work very well.
IMR 4227 in all my WSLs.
Photo taken at the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody, WY last August.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5353_zpsu6y4yjtb.jpg

Can you post a before and after of the brass so we can get a visual?

[Battis]

I bought an old set of RCBS .401 dies about a year before I found the rifle. Midway sells new dies. I don't know if you could use dies from another caliber.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/127282/redding-3-die-set-401-winchester-self-loading
I replaced the buffers in all of the rifles (including the .32WSL), and the springs in the .35 & .351. Replacing the buffers is not an easy job the first time.
I cut the .414 Super Mag brass to length and reduced the rim diameter. I haven't cut an extractor groove in any of the brass and they all work fine without it. I'm pretty sure Grumpa sells the brass.
I found that these rifles are pretty forgiving as far as the brass, but not the powder charge. IMR4227 works great (17 grs in the .351, 22 grs in the .401).

[mart]

Good job on the deer. Great to see the old rifles back in service. I have a 401 and did buy some of the Qual Cart brass for it. I made a brass net to sit on the bench and catch brass when I work up loads. I have some 414 brass but have not tried using it for my rifle yet. Hawk bullets also makes bullets for the 401 and 351. Being a blowback action they are also well suited for cast bullets. I lucked out and found a set of Redding dies on eBay for a fraction of what they cost new.

[richhodg66]

I hated chasing the brass on this one and bought a cheap, velcro on brass catcher designed for ARs, and it works. As hard as the brass is to come by, I don't want to lose any.

I have heard that .41 magnum dies work fine for the .401, but I have no experience.

[Battis]

I bought this book when I got my .351. I emailed the author and he called me and helped me with the job of spring and buffer changing. Pretty informative book.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/book-review-winchester-model-07-self-loading-351-caliber/

[TXGunNut]

Always been intrigued by these rifles, thanks for sharing.

[Loudenboomer]

I sized a 35 Ranch Dog Boolit to .354. Sized a little more than I'd like. Sometimes you work with you got. Works well in my 35WSL rifle.

[richhodg66]

I sized a 35 Ranch Dog Boolit to .354. Sized a little more than I'd like. Sometimes you work with you got. Works well in my 35WSL rifle.

That's interesting. May I ask what the Ranchdog dropped out of the mold at? I've just been concerned about deformation sizing something down that much.

If I recall, those weigh 190 grains nominally which is a bit heavier than the standard for the .351, did you adjust down loading data much for it?

[justashooter]

357 dies can be used to reload 351, but you need the different shellholder, and it is nice to reduce the expander plug.

[mwells72774]

357 dies can be used to reload 351, but you need the different shellholder, and it is nice to reduce the expander plug.

Does the difference in size make a big difference?

[hornady308]

"180 grain bullet at 1700 FPS+"

That's just a little less than what a 357 Herrett will do, and it was designed for moose and elk.

[richhodg66]

357 dies can be used to reload 351, but you need the different shellholder, and it is nice to reduce the expander plug.

Oddly enough, I have an original Lee Loader for the .351, but I didn't use it for this ammo.

[Loudenboomer]

Rich My Ranch Dogs weigh About 195 gr. checked. I backed off the 2400 charge about 10%. The boolits drop at about .360 sizing to .354 is a little rough on the tumble lube groves. Accuracy is on par with factory. OK for a 50 yd. deer rifle.

[justashooter]

Does the difference in size make a big difference?

if you use the standard 357 expander you will get less bullet pull in seating bullets. it is advised to polish your expander plug down by 5 thousandths or so. a 351 rifle uses true 351 or 352 diameter bullets.