Can't We Find Just One Man Like This One Instead Of The Disappointments We Have?

[DougGuy]

We are a great nation. We WERE a greater nation. We COULD be the greatest nation AGAIN.

We WILL NOT do it with the likes of Obama, the Clintons, Trump, Reid, Romney, and all our lifelong blood sucking leeches in both houses of our legislature. We WILL NOT do it with the likes of the Koch Brothers, Art Pope, George Soros controlling the interests of our nation from Wall Street to the back streets.

America NEEDS a simple man with simple goals like honesty, integrity, determination, and sheer will. Ahh but these qualities don't play well with the rich and influential, the corporate muscle, and the greedy and powerful.

America could learn a LOT from a man like Doris Miller, if only we could find one like him.

The Ship’s Cook Who Took Over A .50-Caliber Machine Gun To Fight The Japanese At Pearl Harbor

Sep 28, 2016 Jeff Edwards

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/00-cookpearlharbor.jpg



World War 2 will long be remembered as the epitome of total war, total gallantry, and total brutality. It spared none based on their ethnic background and in the worst of cases would target others specifically for that reason.

And while America looks back on the 1940s as a source of inspiration for when an entire nation came together, there are still lingering reminders that in many ways the greatest generation still had some hard lessons to learn about freedom and the American dream.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/717px-doris_miller-510x640.jpg
Miller with his Navy Cross.

One such reminder would be the African-American mess attendant at Pearl Harbor who dropped the spatula, picked up a .50 cal, and fought back against the Japanese onslaught. This action would earn him the Navy Cross and foreshadow a legacy of hard-fighting gallant warriors of World War 2 who just so happened to be African-American.
Assigned to the Kitchen and No OtherIn early 1940, there were few jobs open to African-Americans seeking to enlist in the United States Navy. An eerie reminder of a time when such men were considered less in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/cooks_at_work_in_the_galley_of_a_royal_navy_ship_o n_a_malta_convoy_21_august_1942-_a11255-640x482.jpg
Doris Miller was working in a kitchen like this one.

But that didn’t stop a young farmer and former high-school football star from enlisted in the Navy to do his part in service to his country. Born in Waco, Texas Doris Miller enlisted in the Navy on September 16th, 1939 and was assigned to one of the few jobs available to him. Namely, to be a mess attendant.
Every ship has cooks, and those who serve in that capacity are no less needed in the totality that is a nation’s ability to fight. It is a proven historical fact that a military tends to get hungry every day – and not just a little bit!

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Pearl_Harbor_looking_southwest-Oct41-640x504.jpg (http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Pearl_Harbor_looking_southwest-Oct41.jpg)
Pearl Harbor 1941.

So yes, Doris Miller was fulfilling a vital part of the military machine although it was unfortunate that this 6 foot 3-inch 200-pound statue of a man was not given other opportunities. Instead, he would have to make his own. For a while he might have been a cook, he would quickly gain a reputation as the best heavyweight boxer aboard the ship.
Shortly after enlisting in the Navy and completing training, he was eventually assigned to the battleship West Virginia where he would become the main cook. This assignment would take the young man from Waco, Texas to the shores of Hawaii where he would be stationed at Pearl Harbor.
The work would include cooking in the mess hall, serving as a steward to officers, and on one fateful December Sunday morning in Hawaii, he would be collecting laundry when the first impacts of World War 2 were felt.

A Morning of Infamy http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/1149px-a6m2_on_carrier_akagi_1941-640x501.jpeg
An Imperial Japanese Navy Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighter on the aircraft carrier Akagi.

On the morning of December 7th, 1941, Doris Miller was gathering laundry when the attack began, and the West Virginia became a target for Japanese torpedoes. Dropping the laundry, he ran to his assigned battle station that was an anti-aircraft battery magazine. It was commonplace for all personnel to have a combat task regardless of job. When Miller arrived at his station, he noticed it was already damaged by enemy fire and rendered useless. As such, he sought to contribute in any way he could.

He would eventually make his way up to the bridge where the captain had been mortally wounded and yet refusing to leave the ship. Under continual attack from the Japanese, Miller picked up the captain and helped get him to a more covered position.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/uss-west-virginia-pearl-harborjpg-c610e64f4a24a0e7.jpg (http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/uss-west-virginia-pearl-harborjpg-c610e64f4a24a0e7.jpg)
USS West Virginia at Pearl Harbor.

He then took his opportunity to jump into the fight at the helm of a .50-caliber machine gun. As a cook, he had not been trained on the weapon but was given instruction on how to load it. From there, Miller reports that he just pulled the trigger, and the gun worked just fine.
After firing for about 15 minutes and until he ran out of ammunition, Miller along with the rest of the crew eventually had to abandon ship as it was apparent that the West Virginia was mortally wounded and sinking to the bottom of the harbor. And while Miller was not credited with an actual kill on a Japanese plane, he is pretty sure he got one as they were diving pretty close to the ships.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/nishikaichis_zero_bii-120-640x471.jpg
Destroyed Zero.

A Well-Deserved CommendationAfter the attack, Miller was transferred to the USS Indianapolis and in January when the Navy released a list of commendations to be given for the events that day, there resided on the list an unnamed African-American sailor.
It would eventually be revealed that it was none other than cook and champion boxer Doris Miller. The public was made aware, and Miller was a national hero, but specifically he was an inspiration for the bravery and fortitude that African-Americans would display in the coming years of war.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/730px-nimitz_and_miller-520x640.jpg
Chester W. Nimitz pins the Navy Cross on Doris Miller, at a ceremony on board USS Enterprise (CV-6) at Pearl Harbor, May 27, 1942.

There was talk of a Medal of Honor and in fact, Senator James Mead of New York submitted a bill requesting Miller receive the nation’s highest honor. However, when the dust had settled, Doris Miller became the first African-American to be awarded the Navy Cross.
After a brief stint helping sell war bonds due to his national fame, Miller was assigned to the escort carrier Liscome Bay. This carrier would take part in the Battle of Makin Island in November of 1943 when it was torpedoed by the Japanese and sunk. There were over 200 survivors of the Liscome Bay, but Doris Miller was not one of them.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/blackhist2.jpg
Miller speaking with sailors and a civilian at Naval Station Great Lakes, January 7, 1943.

He was reported missing in action, and a ceremony was eventually held in his hometown of Waco in April of 1944. Doris Miller will go down in the books of history as a man who fought despite the beliefs of others that he could do no more than cook.
African-Americans would go on to prove their gallantry and heroism throughout the war. The 2001 Pearl Harbor movie would see the role of Miller played by Cuba Gooding Jr. It gave a face and a story to the man who earned it on December 7th, 1941 and he wasn’t anywhere near a kitchen when he did so.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think the good ones just don't want the bad things it takes to be an elected official. Just look at the mud slinging going on right now with our presidential candidates. What good man would want to subject his family to that kind of ****. EVERYONE OF US has made a mistake or two in the past theyd like to forget. Even the good ones. Why would someone want those mistakes drug up from the past and plastered all over the tv and internet. Back in the 40s and 50s there wasn't the ability to air things out like this. Even Kennedy in the 60s had the people fooled into thinking he was a far different man then he really was. How far do you think hed go today if people knew he was a drug addict with a drug addict wife and fooled around with many women on the side and his money came from daddy who was nothing but a criminal? Look at the trouble Clinton saw just for Monica Lewinski. Many of the presidents that we consider good maybe wouldn't even have made it as far as they did if they were scrutinized like they are now. Look at this election. MANY republicans don't like trump and are voting just because hes not a democrat and the same goes the other way for Hillary. Why is that? Because no good honest family orientated man or women wants dirty fight it takes. Problem too with your elect a good old boy thing is that once elected the president has to deal with all the other crooks and dishonest people in office and someone that didn't come up through the system couldn't begin to compete with those professional degenerates and would be eaten alive by them. Not only that but a navy cook hardly has the knowledge of foreign affairs and how the government works to do the job. It would take the first 4 years just to get him up to speed on the small things he would need to know.

[chsparkman]

Great story. Thanks.

[DougGuy]

Not only that but a navy cook hardly has the knowledge of foreign affairs and how the government works to do the job. It would take the first 4 years just to get him up to speed on the small things he would need to know.

Precisely the reason we should have someone who in mind and character is ABOVE all the corruption and dumb ****. What would Jimmy Stewart do? You think he'd stand for a minute's worth of the **** that the beltway thrives on? Hell no he'd be kicking ***** and taking names and by the end of the first day word would be out that the new sheriff ain't takin' no **** off nobody.

Sadly neither one of the hopefuls has cajones of that magnitude and we may never have one that does but we sorely need change and the status quo needs to be set out on the unemployment line for it to do us any good.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It seems to be a failing of western democracy that it brings to the fore leaders with an aggressive determination to have what they want - which is sometimes what we want them to want, and sometimes not. Mud-slinging in the age of the internet appears to have much increased popular support. You only have to look at some of the things that get said on this site, and people's eagerness to be deceived by false or exaggerated "news" sites, as long as it is for what they consider the right cause.

I think President Kennedy's drug use was at least mainly of a complex collection of prescription drugs, taken for undeclared health problems, and I don't believe actual criminality was ever proven against Joe. His bootlegging rests on the word of Frank Costello, and while one of his major takeovers was much facilitated by a rape charge which was later overturned, it is uncertain whether it was fabricated. He was removed as ambassador to the US after he exceeded all reason in his attempts to have President Roosevelt abandon Britain. It may have been due to an upbringing amid Irish mist in Boston. It wasn't a crime, but even taken at his valuation, aiding Britain solely insofar as it furthered the interests of the US, it was a mistake. More and more virulent anti-Semitism has emerged in his correspondence, and McCathyism might have been kept within far more reasonable bounds without his support.

[Lloyd Smale]

youd still have to find a GOOD man willing to expose himself and his family to the crooked ones and there games. Good luck with that.
Precisely the reason we should have someone who in mind and character is ABOVE all the corruption and dumb ****. What would Jimmy Stewart do? You think he'd stand for a minute's worth of the **** that the beltway thrives on? Hell no he'd be kicking ***** and taking names and by the end of the first day word would be out that the new sheriff ain't takin' no **** off nobody.

Sadly neither one of the hopefuls has cajones of that magnitude and we may never have one that does but we sorely need change and the status quo needs to be set out on the unemployment line for it to do us any good.

[Lloyd Smale]

you see in America if you have money you can make any indiscretions you make disappear or buy a good excuse for doing it. The Kennedys HAD money and HAD the power to be able do what they want and buy off or intimidate anyone with real proof of it. Its still going on today right out in the open when Hillary AND trumps pasts can be overlooked by some. We tend to only see what fits our agenda. I'm sure its the same way in England. You need only to look at the royal family and what they get away with.
It seems to be a failing of western democracy that it brings to the fore leaders with an aggressive determination to have what they want - which is sometimes what we want them to want, and sometimes not. Mud-slinging in the age of the internet appears to have much increased popular support. You only have to look at some of the things that get said on this site, and people's eagerness to be deceived by false or exaggerated "news" sites, as long as it is for what they consider the right cause.

I think President Kennedy's drug use was at least mainly of a complex collection of prescription drugs, taken for undeclared health problems, and I don't believe actual criminality was ever proven against Joe. His bootlegging rests on the word of Frank Costello, and while one of his major takeovers was much facilitated by a rape charge which was later overturned, it is uncertain whether it was fabricated. He was removed as ambassador to the US after he exceeded all reason in his attempts to have President Roosevelt abandon Britain. It may have been due to an upbringing amid Irish mist in Boston. It wasn't a crime, but even taken at his valuation, aiding Britain solely insofar as it furthered the interests of the US, it was a mistake. More and more virulent anti-Semitism has emerged in his correspondence, and McCathyism might have been kept within far more reasonable bounds without his support.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A civilian steward on the cruise liner "Canberra" is known to have shot down an Argentine Mirage with a 7.62mm. GPMG, lashed with rope to the lookout position on the mast, as she lay in San Carlos Water. But he had been in the army in the past, and got the job as a result. "Canberra" had become a troopship and headed south in a week which began with cruise passengers aboard in the Mediterranean, and the navy hadn't put anybody aboard who knew how to work one.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You need only to look at the royal family and what they get away with.

I can't see that you have done or look like doing better by keeping monarchy in the family. The Royal House of Windsor tend to be extremely good or extremely bad, and they have about mastered the art of managing them. The last one to do much harm did it by marrying an American, and that worked out all right in the long term.

[Lloyd Smale]

As long as she doesn't cross any lines they draw like Diana did:Fire:
I can't see that you have done or look like doing better by keeping monarchy in the family. The Royal House of Windsor tend to be extremely good or extremely bad, and they have about mastered the art of managing them. The last one to do much harm did it by marrying an American, and that worked out all right in the long term.

[44man]

Yes, I agree and you fellas make good sense. But I don't care about locker room talk since every man does that and so do women.
The guy that taped what was said broke the law for one thing.
But we have no choice now. It is between a liar, thief and a felon and someone with a big mouth.
It comes to who I fear most. Who among us can cast the first stone? It WAS the people that put Trump where he is.
He might turn women away but even God did not give most the ability to think so there you go, my big mouth would exclude me too.

[Lloyd Smale]

me to my friend
Yes, I agree and you fellas make good sense. But I don't care about locker room talk since every man does that and so do women.
The guy that taped what was said broke the law for one thing.
But we have no choice now. It is between a liar, thief and a felon and someone with a big mouth.
It comes to who I fear most. Who among us can cast the first stone? It WAS the people that put Trump where he is.
He might turn women away but even God did not give most the ability to think so there you go, my big mouth would exclude me too.

[Artful]

An excellent example of the finest generation - thanks for the post!

[JSnover]

They still make 'em like that.
But these days we have a pretty effective system for keeping them out of government.

[shoot-n-lead]

Are you aware of what makes up this electorate?

This type guy CANNOT be elected...that is why we have, what we have...it is not that these guys are not out there.

[ole 5 hole group]

I think President Kennedy's drug use was at least mainly of a complex collection of prescription drugs, taken for undeclared health problems, and I don't believe actual criminality was ever proven against Joe.

Proof? I suppose if one believes the beast never intended to violate the law in establishing a "personal server" that was used on occasion for State Department communications - then I would think that person could also believe no proof ever existed of drug abuse or bootlegging.

It's a strange world where some "leader" can inspire neighbor to turn against neighbor - Every time a country has/had a revolution - the group leading the revolt always seems to get corrupted by power and turns out worse than the former "leaders". In today's world, only the military leaders can start and prevail in a revolution due to the tremendous fire-power the modern military possesses - if they don't have a solid plan - like the recent Turkey attempt, well, those military leaders will pass from this world but not before they and their families endure terrible acts of violence for the attempt. There's no get out of jail free passes in those countries, like their are in the USA.;)

The "establishment", media/press, elites etc are dead set against The Donald - there has to be a "dark" reason and if he doesn't prevail in November; our grandchildren and great grandkids will probably see the "fruits" of November 2016.

[JSnover]

Every time a country has/had a revolution - the group leading the revolt always seems to get corrupted by power and turns out worse than the former "leaders". In today's world, only the military leaders can start and prevail in a revolution due to the tremendous fire-power the modern military possesses - if they don't have a solid plan - like the recent Turkey attempt, well, those military leaders will pass from this world but not before they and their families endure terrible acts of violence for the attempt.;)

One may be sharper than the other, but every sword has two edges.
Or as T.E. Lawrence said, "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible."

[blackthorn]

It aint going to happen ---BUT---(and this applies to any democratically run body) The political mess both of our countries are in CAN be fixed---IF---a percentage above 80% of our citizens---joined a (any) party, attended constituency meetings, paid attention to what the "party" REALLY wanted to do, Chose carefully who they would vote for as the candidate, and followed through. Just going out to vote on election day is only 50% of our responsibility!

God help both of our countries.

[Bent Ramrod]

Shoot-N-Lead is right. All our most notable Presidential candidates were vetted and picked to run in smoke-filled rooms populated by rich, powerful industrialists, financiers, and savvy politicians. Those candidates became the greatest Presidents, by and large, and very occasionally, the worst.

At some point, the demagogues ruled this selection process undemocratic, elitist and outrageous, and demanded greater participation by the People (yes, the People). Since then, the primary consideration has gradually become to look good on TV, and to assume the appropriate facial expressions while uttering well-spoken platitudes read off a TelePrompTer. And, if possible, to be somehow Symbolic of something. Now, as Nietzsche predicted, mediocrity is what has the greatest survival value.

What particularly bothers me is that the same electorate that denounced big corporations for putting "token" minorities or genders in the Front Office in order to appear less racist or sexist are now factoring the same "tokenism" into their choices for the highest political offices, regardless of evidence of merit.

We have been spoiled by watching endless movies and TV shows where highly skilled actors read their lines with passion and conviction, and never a bobble or stutter. We never are told that it was the nineteenth take of the same scene and the actor finally got it right. We demand that everybody who gets up to talk to us exhibit the same polish and perfection. Lincoln, with his ugly face, and Washington, with his clacking false teeth, would be hooked off stage lest they offend our sensibilities.

In the movie Idiocracy, the President was an ex-porn star and former WWF wrestling champion. I doubt if a smoke filled room of capitalists and kingmakers would set someone like that in front of the electorate. But, as the kids say, things are "trending" in that direction.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Proof? I suppose if one believes the beast never intended to violate the law in establishing a "personal server" that was used on occasion for State Department communications - then I would think that person could also believe no proof ever existed of drug abuse or bootlegging.


There is no direct connection between Joseph Kennedy and anybody you might consider to be wriggling past all those checks and balances you have in 2016. It was the opinion of his most highly regarded biographer, David Nasaw, that no credible evidence has ever linked him to bootlegging. Nasaw bargained for and got access to the Kennedy papers without censorship of the product, and the work was a long time in preparation before publication in 1912. It passed academic peer review extremely well, particularly compared with the sources so often prized here, which won't even pass Snopes.

That isn't, of course, the same as saying Kennedy didn't do anything criminal, or isn't a first-class example of what so many are saying, that money and expert use of leverage can get a lot of things covered up. He was, for example, a pioneer of lobotomization in America, by having it done to his daughter. That wasn't, as is sometimes said, to prevent her mental illness from harming John's chance of the presidency. It happened while Joseph junior (who became an accidental suicide bomber testing a hare-brained plan to fly radio-controlled bombers into targets in 1944) was the family's front runner. In the very uncertain event that the candidate was complicit, it wouldn't have been John.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In the movie Idiocracy, the President was an ex-porn star and former WWF wrestling champion. I doubt if a smoke filled room of capitalists and kingmakers would set someone like that in front of the electorate. But, as the kids say, things are "trending" in that direction.
.
Well, maybe in Italy. Elsewhere it would be easier to do it the other way around. Being the right kind of film star has been known to help. I don't believe all the political insight and study in the world could have got Lee Van Cleef into the presidency.

You are right, though, that off-the-cuff replies are very different from prepared speeches. Churchill's reputation for prepared speeches is well known, and he was pretty good at a spur of the moment retort. But he detested what lies in the middle, a detailed speech on an issue newly presented to him, and all his life, after an unaccountable clamming-up early in his career, he insisted on carrying notes. Even in a candidates' debate, the participants have been carefully primed by a staff of experts on what may be said, and how they should respond.

Still, we have to go by what indicators we've got. It is a truism that bad generals often get their start on the ladder, or further, by having been extremely brave lieutenants. Well the stresses aren't the same, but it is a test which helps, up to a point. The modern politician who flounders or makes ill-considered comments may do the same, someday, with people who have their fingers on the nuclear button too, or can make decisions which devastate American business.

[44man]

Kennedy was killed because he was a good man. Yes he loved woman--- so what. Nothing like Clinton or his enabler that destroyed women. Buck the Demoncrats and you die early. We lost years and will never know. Reagan was my man but also did things wrong. It happens. What he did to aircraft controllers was dead wrong. But Ted Kennedy was a ***. Killed a woman and got away with murder. The FBI today fears the Clinton's. The reach is beyond what we know. You just die.

[Blackwater]

It's always surprising to see folks we don't normally think of as being "heroes" come forward when it counts and the balloon goes up. But they do. In WWII, so many, many good men did many, many heroic things, and none even wanted the recognition we like to give them. All any of them ever wanted, that I have met, was just for good to overcome evil. That seems to have been the only uniform trait in the whole mix. Many seem surprised at the diversity of folks who've won the Medal of Honor and all the other awards, but that's because most simply don't understand people, not because it's shocking, really. People are just people, wherever you find them, and they can vary in culture, language, etc., etc., but they're still people, and we're all alike in all the major things. We just create ways to think we're different, usually.

WWII's only good trait was it created so many, many heroes, and I'd dare say we all know someone who was a genuine hero, whether they got some ribbon or medal for what they did or not. But war is always like that, I think. I think heroes like these have a special spot in Heaven. I don't know that, but I like to think that, anyway. God bless them one and all.

[sparky45]

Precisely the reason we should have someone who in mind and character is ABOVE all the corruption and dumb ****. What would Jimmy Stewart do? You think he'd stand for a minute's worth of the **** that the beltway thrives on? Hell no he'd be kicking ***** and taking names and by the end of the first day word would be out that the new sheriff ain't takin' no **** off nobody.

Sadly neither one of the hopefuls has cajones of that magnitude and we may never have one that does but we sorely need change and the status quo needs to be set out on the unemployment line for it to do us any good.
In the OP, you failed to mention one of the biggest sleezebags on the megabillionaire stage; Warren Buffet. Other than that, great post.

[44man]

To get a ribbon after you died for our country never made sense. I want to hug the man or woman and everyone in blue today. I cry to pay tribute to the brave but it is too late. The flag over a coffin is just too much pain.
To see a president with no respect and to see a ***** take over is just too much.

[xs11jack]

If my memory serves me right, that young man the cook was a cook because the democrat president Woodrow Wilson segregated the Navy. Wilson used to watch the movie "Birth of a Nation" frequently, saying it was the best movie ever.
Ole Jack

[TXGunNut]

Are you aware of what makes up this electorate?

This type guy CANNOT be elected...that is why we have, what we have...it is not that these guys are not out there.

Exactly, our elected officials are a product of our political system and in some part the press. Until a fundamental change occurs we get what they produce and all things considered I'm quite impressed when a good man runs for public office. Quite often it doesn't turn out well but I keep hoping.
Great story Doug Guy. Just another reason why his is called the greatest generation.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Kennedy was killed because he was a good man. Yes he loved woman--- so what. Nothing like Clinton or his enabler that destroyed women. Buck the Demoncrats and you die early. We lost years and will never know. Reagan was my man but also did things wrong. It happens. What he did to aircraft controllers was dead wrong. But Ted Kennedy was a ***. Killed a woman and got away with murder. The FBI today fears the Clinton's. The reach is beyond what we know. You just die.

I always wondered what was wrong with the theory that the Russians had Kennedy killed. Not that I believe it, specially. It could have been almost anybody. But I think the reason almost everybody dismisses the possibility is that it doesn't serve the various political agendas they want to believe in.

The future Lord Reith of the BBC, who introduced public service broadcasting, sneaked out of hospital three weeks after being shot through the head and shoulder by a German sniper, to see "The Birth of a Nation." He enjoyed it tremendously, but I believe he took it as comedy, and once was probably enough.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

WWII's only good trait was it created so many, many heroes, and I'd dare say we all know someone who was a genuine hero, whether they got some ribbon or medal for what they did or not. But war is always like that, I think. I think heroes like these have a special spot in Heaven. I don't know that, but I like to think that, anyway. God bless them one and all.

Heroism can be a rather extreme way of serving the cause they believe in, or perhaps more often the group in which the service has placed them. But Germany, Japan, the Soviet Union and Vietnam have been extremely productive in heroes. What they want to achieve is also important.

[44man]

A true hero is a man that loves the men he serves with. Most die to save friends. Even in the civil war, men were fodder as were the Japs and Chinese, north Vietnamese. Over run with masses.
But Americans don't think that way. Death in the field does not matter. It is only to save lives that has merit. I find fault with it because every single soldier that died no matter which side is a hero.
We hate the enemy in war but after it is over they are like us after all. But now we have the Koran and evil. They don't teach math in school, they teach hate and how to die for a false God. Strap a bomb on a 4 year old to kill innocents.
Obumbler still can't say what they are.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I used to know a Saudi whose grandfather kicked the present King's father in the lower part of the abdomen, in the hand-to-hand fight in 1902 which started the long process of winning his kingdom. That man, and an ex-slave, were in a group of about fifty people in training as high-flying civil servants, which is strikingly different from many Third World countries. In the next quarter-century they fought extremely bitter wars against two Arabian rival dynasties, and then against fundamentalists not unlike those of the present day. All of those groups are now intermarried with the royal family. One still wears the white band replacing the usual black fanbelt around the headcloth, which used to be the mark of the fundamentalist, but now no means a dissident than sentimental Jacobitism in Scotland.

They beat fundamentalism in 1929, as they did a few years back, by biding their time and letting the rebels discredit themselves in the eyes of the uncommitted. Around 2005 petty rebels received religious counselling by tame theologians and were let out on license to turn others around. The tribal code of silence broke down, and they caught everybody on their long "most wanted" list.

In 1970, before I worked there, there was a failed coup in the Royal Saudi Air Force's Technical Studies Institute in Dhahran. The plan was to shoot down King Faisal's plane, and that was serious, for the King had at last begun to reconcile the fundamentalists and the modernisers. The execution groupies claimed that the culprits had been dropped out of aeroplanes without parachutes. But eleven years later Robert Lacey the historian met every one of the leaders. As the book went to press he sat in a plane beside the ringleader, Colonel Dawood Ramegh, who had a daughter a few years old with him. No doubt the seating was arranged for him, and he wasn't a colonel any more. He had a prosperous car dealership - the sort of thing the Mafia calls "give him a living." It raised some eyebrows when they admitted and pensioned Idi Amin to get him out of Uganda, but it is only what they have consistently done with their own enemies.

There are some in the Muslim countries who will indeed settle for nothing but seeing their enemies dead. Just look at some that you've got. But that doesn't make it the predominant attitude, let alone government policy. From their point of view the situation is much more like a struggle to hang onto the cosmopolitan reforms which have brought prosperity to a country where the very old can still remember desperate poverty.

[44man]

I have always considered taking out a dictator wrong. He controls with force and death. We want him gone but can't replace him and leave to let the radicals take over. The dictator controlled the nut cases. Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone without being the cop of the world. Now billions are killed when thousands might have. What did Obombler create in Iraq and Libya?
Bush was wrong in some cases but the demoncrats made it worse. Demoncrats fed Bush false information so he invaded again. The only man to keep the country in control was killed.
Islam is not normal and religion has killed more then anything else on earth. The church is not out of the woods either. Might be the worst in the end.
It is why our constitution separates church from state. Not that we hate them but to keep people in control no matter their faith. Would you want Islam to control the government?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have always considered taking out a dictator wrong. He controls with force and death. We want him gone but can't replace him and leave to let the radicals take over. The dictator controlled the nut cases. Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone without being the cop of the world.

If you consider it legitimate to assassinate odious despots, pretty soon people will be assassinating rulers who are just pretty bad, then a little bad... and we have covered most of them so far... and eventually the Gorbuchevs and Mandelas of this world. You don't get much more odious than the people who ruled so many Latin American countries until the 80s or so. That is a region in which you can't expect perfection or consistency. But in general they have made a great improvement in democracy since they were left to what they could get by popular pressure of their own.

I've read some interesting articles by the former head of the Afghan section of Saudi intelligence. There was a time when most of the west was critical of their keeping surveillance, of a not greatly oppressive sort, on Saudi volunteers who returned from fighting the Russians there. They knew that some of them acted from the best of motives, like Western volunteers in the Spanish Civil War, but that not all was well. They also attempted to broker a deal when Osama Bin Laden was in the Sudan, whereby Osama would be extradited to face charges in Saudi Arabia if the US recognised the Sudanese government. But the State Department wouldn't, pointing out that there was no US indictment against him, and forbade its officials to visit the Sudan. Eventually he was expelled to go wherever he liked.

Saddam Hussein must have known that his situation was precarious, with bitter enemies in the sort of country that doesn't invite ex-presidents to design their presidential libraries. I also suspect that the Saudis had a plan to buy him into pensioned retirement in Saudi Arabia as they did Idi Amin of Uganda, probably after telling him in simple terms why killing people would no longer figure in his lifestyle. Waiting for natural causes would have been better than either of those two deserved, but should be compared with what actually happened in Iraq.

I've also seen a Saudi Sharia judge in action when we had to go and swear to our statements over a man who disappeared on a diving trip. He really was quite kindly and methodical, having the translations retranslated back to us, and assuring us that nobody, employers, insurers, coastguard or anybody, could do a thing to us if we wanted to dispute any of what we were supposed to have said. Saudis would be bewildered at the idea that anybody could bribe a judge, when God has made him an offer he can't refuse. We had to sit through a morning session, in which he gave similar advice to some pretty rough-looking petty criminals. The courts also acquitted quite a lot of people we may guess the government wanted dead, for lack of evidence after the Mahdist seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca. I don't see it as very different from the courts of what was in theory a parliamentary democracy, in South Africa before it changed. They would implement anything the government passed into law, but wouldn't give it an inch on things that hadn't been.

[dtknowles]

I have always considered taking out a dictator wrong. He controls with force and death. We want him gone but can't replace him and leave to let the radicals take over. The dictator controlled the nut cases. Sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone without being the cop of the world. Now billions are killed when thousands might have. What did Obombler create in Iraq and Libya?
Bush was wrong in some cases but the demoncrats made it worse. Demoncrats fed Bush false information so he invaded again. The only man to keep the country in control was killed.
Islam is not normal and religion has killed more then anything else on earth. The church is not out of the woods either. Might be the worst in the end.
It is why our constitution separates church from state. Not that we hate them but to keep people in control no matter their faith. Would you want Islam to control the government?

Sir, you are wrong but it maybe too late for you too learn. Communist Dictators kill more people than Religion or anything else except disease or natural disasters. Just check out Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

Islam may not be normal or it maybe that it is as normal as any religion or Political Movement, they are all tools to control people.

I would not want to live in a Theocracy.

I do not want any ideology to dominate the world. The world would be much better off it we had more smaller countries and no big ones. One world government is a path to repression and an end to freedom.

Tim

[44man]

What you say is true of course, but our record is to get rid of a man and leave the next day.
That is different from WWII when we actually rebuilt country's. You can't leave the door open for worst. That is exactly what happens when another takes the place. Look at Iran today. Once the Shaw was deposed and radicals took over, we lost an ally.
No, we will never take over a country as our own or dominate but we must be involved after shedding blood and fortune.
Our government walks away today.
Today we must target a bad guy and his cronies, never an innocent. If innocent, get out. We carpet bombed innocents by the millions before. Had to use the A bombs to get Japan to submit. We were viscous in the extreme because all were beholden to the leader. If you tolerate and help the radicals today and are where they are, too bad. Now one person killed next to a bad guy is news.
Assad is a cruel dictator but if he is gone what is left? Radical Islam or Russia? Which will be worse?
Each dictator is different and some should go but a crazy people must be held in control.
The difference is a people that want freedom from those that want power and control.
We had a revolution to get rid of power and control and the civil war, American against American because government got out of hand.
Now we might have Hillary to start another revolution. If you think she will not send troops to kill us, you might want Stalin alive. Our Constitution and courts will be gone.
A plumber in Ohio found ballot boxes full of ballots in a warehouse in Ohio full of
ballots with Hillary voted for before early elections started. Thousands of them.
You want to see a dictator, look at that witch.

[mcdaniel.mac]

A plumber in Ohio found ballot boxes full of ballots in a warehouse in Ohio full of
ballots with Hillary voted for before early elections started. Thousands of them.
You want to see a dictator, look at that witch.

That story was an utter fabrication using pictures from a 2015 story on elections in the UK. Don't believe me, ask Good Cheer, he posted it here and we discussed the fraudulent story.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

When it comes to political threads, it is amazing how little people mind fraudulent "news", when it is fraud they want to hear.

[44man]

I don't know the truth of it either but votes for Obama in areas of Ohio were 100% with not a single vote for the republican. That just can't happen. Do I think the Demoncrats rig elections, YES I do.
From pictures shown, dates on the ballots were 2016 before early voting starts in Ohio.
Sure I know stuff is posted that is wrong but proof must be made. Most from the left can't be proved.
Same as the witch accusing the Donald about advances on a plane, a 707 that did not exist and an arm rest pulled up. I know planes working for airlines 42 years. 707/720 did not exist. United would have been a 720--NOT a 707 anyway. Arm rests did not pull up either.
I want truth and more and more are disputing things said against Trump. Lies from the left are dangerous.
I think for myself and seen what Obumbler was and see Billary what she is. The left does not want voter proof, WHY not? I can't get my drivers license without proof of residence or birth. My birth certificate had my last name only, rejected. I had to get to Ohio to get one with my first name on it. Jump the fence and vote---NO. Vote when dead----NO, Vote 6 times---NO.
Fraud is rampant.

[elmacgyver0]

I don't know if democrats rig elections or not.
What I do know it is not for the lack of trying.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I don't know the truth of it either but votes for Obama in areas of Ohio were 100% with not a single vote for the republican. That just can't happen. Do I think the Demoncrats rig elections, YES I do.
From pictures shown, dates on the ballots were 2016 before early voting starts in Ohio.
Sure I know stuff is posted that is wrong but proof must be made. Most from the left can't be proved.
Same as the witch accusing the Donald about advances on a plane, a 707 that did not exist and an arm rest pulled up. I know planes working for airlines 42 years. 707/720 did not exist. United would have been a 720--NOT a 707 anyway. Arm rests did not pull up either.
I want truth and more and more are disputing things said against Trump. Lies from the left are dangerous.
I think for myself and seen what Obumbler was and see Billary what she is. The left does not want voter proof, WHY not? I can't get my drivers license without proof of residence or birth. My birth certificate had my last name only, rejected. I had to get to Ohio to get one with my first name on it. Jump the fence and vote---NO. Vote when dead----NO, Vote 6 times---NO.
Fraud is rampant.
If you read the CTN article, that ballot was a "mock up" sent in by their "confidential source." The pictures of the ballot boxes (which were reversed left to right, mirrored as it were and poorly photoshopped to reverse the word "BALLOT" on a few of them, are from an election in the UK in 2015. If you look at the pictures, the man is holding a box that has a word starting with TO with the rest obscured...it's BALLOT but reversed, to make it harder for someone to do a reverse image search for the pictures.

If you read a different article, please share it with me.

CTN article: http://archive.is/5lfHH

Note that CTN also claimed that Trump's name had been removed from the ballots in the primary. They're flat out lying, or are mistrusting someone who is.

Birmingham (England, not Alabama) article. Note the date and the photos:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/election-2015-polling-day-birmingham-9197585

[44man]

If from England why was Hillary's name on the ballots? Little circle blacked out, same ballot I get in the booth.
How does a state get 100% for any candidate? Can't happen and never has in history.
I seen the picture of the boxes and it clearly said ballot in the right order.
No matter, I still say your vote will not count from corruption.

[mcdaniel.mac]

If from England why was Hillary's name on the ballots? Little circle blacked out, same ballot I get in the booth.
How does a state get 100% for any candidate? Can't happen and never has in history.
I seen the picture of the boxes and it clearly said ballot in the right order.
No matter, I still say your vote will not count from corruption.

The article admits that the ballot is a mockup, not an actual scan. Someone created that to add to it. It would take all of five minutes to do with MS Paint.

As I mentioned, all the boxes except the one in the back were sloppily photoshopped. Look at the box being held by the gentleman in the photo. Also look at the distortions around the word "ballot" on the stacked boxes. I'm not even going to say photoshop, it looks more like MS Paint.

How do you explain the pictures being the same as the ones from the 2015 article? I mean exactly the same, sans mirroring. Did you even look?

You can believe what you want to believe, but the evidence is right in front of you.