Need information pertaining to range back stops

[country gent]

Friends and shooters, I am at a quandry of sorts here and need some help with information. The local club is being plauged by rounds getting out, these are dropping in with in 600 yds of the firing lines, Both rifle bullets and pistol bullets. The club has been there since the mid 30s or so. So figure around 80 years give or take of shooting. Its been a active club since the 50s. High Power rifle, pistol matches, cast bullet, and some small bore both rifle and pistol along with hunters and at times up to 1200 members use. Targets have always been about the same hieght and firing line benches the same hieght so at 200 yds its been the same impact are basically. The 25, 50, 100 yds have new back stops inside of 10 years old or newer. The 200 yd back stop ( biggest back stop in width nd hieght) has been there the duration. Im of the opinion that there is a build up of bullets jacketed and cast built up and probably compacted to close to the surface causing richochets up and over the back stop dropping into the area behind. The complaints have been increaseing the last year. I just dont believe there are that man rounds being fired over the top and dropping that close. The 200 yd backstop is over 40' tall currently. Im trying to get an e-mail to NRA tech support also. WHat I was wondering is if anyones heard of or knows where I can find internet info on this concern. Im hoping to use a probe and at the ange of bullet in the spot thay impact probe to see how deep the compacted spot is from the surface. Any ideas or sources of information will be appreciated. The quick fix my be to add 3-4' of dirt 10' up the face of the backstop to add surface and more area to the backstop over the compacted area in there. Better would be to mine the lead out. Ill bet there alot there. Any websites dealing with this issue would be appreciated. Thanks for your help in advance CG

[DCM]

Is the ground between the firing line solid or sandy? We found that most of the ricochets on one range were from rounds hitting the very solid ground ahead of the targets. The fix for this one was to bring in lots of sand and Try to get folks not to jerk and flinch.
The berm angle and content may also be an issue causing the same result.
Are pics possible?

[shooterg]

If walking the Range floor and you find some skips, a short intermediate berm will help. With that many folks though, I think you'll fine that there are those I refer to as the 1% - folks that don't understand the importance of keeping the muzzle pointed at the berm - and many that think rules do not apply to them ! You may have to go to full time Range Officers and limit the hours if you can't find volunteers. I can tell ya for sure though - you're just one round away from losing the Range !

Hey, you shoulda been harvesting all that lead and bringing it home !

[runfiverun]

bullets will flip up and over the berm.
I find a bunch of them behind our 50yd berm [actually most of my lead comes from behind the berm]
you need a roof coming out from the berm to stop it.
2-3 rail road ties from the berm outwards, and about 6-8 feet above the target height will catch them and will last a looong time.

[country gent]

When this started a couple months ago I recomended probing the berm to check lead build up and how close to the surface it is. If needed mining the berm to remove the lead. Then on the area between firing line and targets going in with a V ripper and working the ground down 3' every 3'-4' spaceing then plowing and disc. leaving a walkway drive down each side. This would break up and loosen the sand so bullets could bury rather than bounce. This dead area has not been worked up since range started but has been walked rained and drove on the whole time compacting it. I believe these 2 things would go a long way to solve our problems. I doubt I could haul all the lead in those backstops home. I may gop down and probe the backstops with a tile probe to see where the build up is actually at. Better would be a soil sample probe that takes a 'core" sample from surface to depth it is pushed into. This wopuld show amount of dirt on top of build up and thickness of build up If I can push it thru. Today they hung a baffle of laminated wood on the covered firing point so no blue sky is visible from the benches. This is top be the start of a gravel box. But if my thinking is sound here its not going to help with this issue.

[44man]

I shoot into an old limestone kiln from when the Quarry was operated. There is a lot of rock on it and I never find a boolit. They turn to dust. It is like shooting steel.
I agree many are short skips that get away.
Rock might solve the berm problems.
Only range we had at the club that BP and handguns were not allowed, it was 800 yards and most could not judge holdover so the rainbow trajectory was a problem. Flat shooting guns were safe.

[ohiomadman]

What club is this at? I am in NW Ohio and we are having issues with bullets leaving our range.

The board shut down 3 of our 5 range`s. It`s the Sandusky County Sportmens club.

[garym1a2]

Look at how Indian River range does it, http://www.goshootingirc.com/

Its a little extreme, but overheads and a ground skip protection plus RSOs are the only way to stop a bullet from leaving the range.

You also can be sure that if a homeowner found a bullet from you range that their is a hundred he did not find.

[44man]

What club is this at? I am in NW Ohio and we are having issues with bullets leaving our range.

The board shut down 3 of our 5 range`s. It`s the Sandusky County Sportmens club.
Shippensburg PA.
I am from Ohio and you have flat land up there. I spent most of my time at Resthaven Wildlife area and farms around to chuck hunt, fish and duck hunt. Then down to Delaware wildlife areas and all the way to Pymatuning the same day. We were crazy and I miss it all. I had farms to hunt from Cleveland to the river.
Craziest thing we did was sneak into the Blue Hole in the middle of the night to catch trout. Almost got caught once. Trout tasted like mud from the pellets they fed them. But it was fun!
I think you know where I am talking about.

[Paper Puncher]

You need an "Eye Brow" near the top of the berm.

If the bullets are dropping within 600yds of the firing line then the problem isn't people shooting high (unless it's straight up). Rounds shot over the berm are going to land a long way from the firing line. A 5.56 has a range of about 2 miles, 3 miles for a .30 cal. Low shots will "walk" the floor of the range and continue up skipping along up the berm landing some where just behind it. The biggest cause though are bullets getting turned in the berm. Weather they hit a hard clump of dirt, a rock, or another bullet laying there, some of them are going to angle up and leave the berm. It doesn't take a lot of shooting to put enough "hard" objects into the berm to start the deflections. The more "stuff" in the berm the more deflected shots.

Here is a write up on range design.
http://www.nssf.org/ranges/rangeresources/library/NSRS/12TechTrackOutdoor/RangeDesign.pdf

[NyFirefighter357]

In the liberal county where I work, the 60 yr old private gun range was closed because of this issue. The area built up, it started with noise complaints, then stray bullets until someone claimed to be hit or house was hit by a ricochet. Then the lawsuit and media attention! Bye, bye shooting range! Get it fixed before it happens to you.

[Greg S]

There is alot of info available by googling range operation manual. US ARMY corps of engineers ect.

I recall the overbuilt ranges in germany whie stationed there. The berms had sidewalls front height shields and what appeared to be an awning/ roof over thenbackstop to keep rain from compacting the media/sand but it also captured any ricochets coming off the range floor and backstop. They were well manicured and maintained.

PM sent with links.

[OnHoPr]

Here's a few pics of the ranges I go to now and then. Long stations boards prevent elevated muzzles and berm roofs prevent skips. There might not be as many shooters not tuned in to what they are doing on a private range compared to a public range, but then why are private ranges always having this issue.

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