1892 Marlin 32 Long Colt aquired need some brass help!

[Terryrm1-03]

Well so far my quest looking up 32 Long Colt brass is Nill. Anyone know of a source for 32 LONG COLT!
Not 32S&W, NOT 32 COLT POLICE.
All of my research say they don't mix.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated!
thanks Terry
PS Or complete Ammunition would be great!

[corbinace]

Scarcer than hens teeth, that stuff. Keep a weather eye and you will eventually find some. The bullet you will need will likely be found in the Accurate collection.

Happy searching, it is half the fun.

Edit for more content;

You MAY want to consider 32 SHORT Colt, to get a start on things. It is readily available and all you have to worry about is the ring of gunk that MAY form in the chamber. Nearly the same lack luster performance of the LONG version.

[Terryrm1-03]

Thank You! I'm finding this out!
Scarcer than hens teeth, that stuff. Keep a weather eye and you will eventually find some. The bullet you will need will likely be found in the Accurate collection.

Happy searching, it is half the fun.

[corbinace]

Oh yea, I forgot to mention that since it is Soooo hard to find brass, that you should sell it to me for a paltry sum. I would be more than happy to take on the care and feeding of that terrible rifle.:kidding:

While I know you are not really thinking of selling and post the above in jest, there are those of us who are thinking about buying.

[Terryrm1-03]

Thanks very much for considering helping me getting rid of this terrible thing, and headaches this thing has caused me.
But just so happens I found brass!
Thanks very much! Folks now I need dies.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention that since it is Soooo hard to find brass, that you should sell it to me for a paltry sum. I would be more than happy to take on the care and feeding of that terrible rifle.:kidding:

While I know you are not really thinking of selling and post the above in jest, there are those of us who are thinking about buying.

[corbinace]

For dies, I think CH4D is the only current manufacturer. Page 36 of the caliber list. https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/caliber-list?page=36 Hopefully, someone will have some to let go for a bit less than the new sticker of $103.

You have fared much better than I on finding brass. It has taken me quite a while to acquire the handful that I have.

Can hardly wait to hear the rest of the development story.

[Terryrm1-03]

PM sent
For dies, I think CH4D is the only current manufacturer. Page 36 of the caliber list. https://www.ch4d.com/products/dies/caliber-list?page=36 Hopefully, someone will have some to let go for a bit less than the new sticker of $103.

You have fared much better than I on finding brass. It has taken me quite a while to acquire the handful that I have.

Can hardly wait to hear the rest of the development story.
Thanks for the headsup on the dies.
PM sent to you!

[Wayne Smith]

I believe that it takes a heeled boolit. If so check out Old West Molds.

[Mk42gunner]

Accurate molds has two or three heel based bullet molds meant for the .32 Long Colt. There are two lengths of the Long Colt brass, one meant for heeled bullets, one for inside lubed hollow based bullets.

Cases can be made from .32 S&W Long, there is a guy from Wisconsin that used to sell them on Gunbroker. There is also a very long thread in the rimfire section on .32 RF that has details of converting brass for use (the .32 Long RF is the same dimensions as the .32 Long Colt).

I have wanted one of the .32 cal Marlins for a long time, but I have never found a shootable version for anything approaching affordable prices.

Robert

[chsparkman]

I see you found brass. For anyone else looking, I just got an Email ad from http://www.buffaloarms.com/ that features brass for 32 long and short Colt.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you hadn't found brass, .310 Cadet brass from Bertram should be usable.

A possible problem is that the original .32 rimfire rounds for the 91 and 92 were the outside-lubricated .32 Short and Long, two of the earliest metallic cartridges, which were already familiar in many revolvers and rifles. The centrefire versions simply were the .32 Short and Long Colts in their early outside-lubricated form. Besides the undesirability of external stickiness, reloading both centerfires would have required a specially-made ‘heel’ bullet mould, of which the principal outer diameter would have almost equaled that of the case, just like a modern .22.

Athough my Marlin 92 bears no caliber designation, it was made around 1905, after a modification of the .32 Long rounds, and I believe the rifle. Around the turn of the century they became the inside-lubricated Long Rifle, in rimfire and centerfire versions, with a bullet of reduced diameter to fit inside a lengthened case of the same .318in. diameter. The case was lengthened, so that all of the bullet’s grooved bearing surface was covered by brass - or by copper, as these cases originally were.

The new bullet had a deep, conical base cavity, so that provided soft lead was used, it would expand to fill the larger bore of an older firearm, made for the .32 long. Indeed my 1905 catalogue, in the 92 rifle rather than ammunition section, says it depended on doing so. A Marlin table of bore dimensions in 1909 bore gives only one set of figures, described as ‘.32 R&C’, and was a current production standard, with 19th century Marlins likely to be smaller. On slugging my bore I found the diameters to exactly match the table, at .302 and .307in.

I have been told that Stevens, and probably many others, used .2985 lands and .314in. grooves for the Long and Short rimfires, but I also slugged and measured a late Stevens Favourite at .303 and .308, and my entirely unproven opinion is that they and Marlin made a similar transition with the introduction of the Long Rifle. I have an Ideal handbook of unknown date but post-1910, as it contains John H. Barlow’s letter of 1910, referring to his sale of the company to Marlin. That catalogue lists a 299155 mould explicitly for the .32 centerfire, with hollow base and .299in. diameter.

Frank Barnes, in ‘Cartridges of the World’, gave a case diameter of .318 in. for all of these rounds, with a bullet diameter of .316in. for the heel-bulleted versions. This seems plausible enough, and that case would match my Favourite chamber, but his .312in. for the Long Rifle bullet is less so, as it would require a neck thinner than paper.

If the larger but soft outside-lubricated bullet were be fired through this bore, it should swage down quite safely, as the bearing surface is short and the lube grooves rather large. Indeed it would have to if any short cartridge were wanted, since no ‘short rifle’ round was made. Both-ways interchangeability was possible, but accuracy of either bore would surely have been better with the bullet for which it was designed.

Note that interchangeability with the late .32 Long Colt centerfire cartridges. For that also became inside-lubricated, but in a form precluding any such interchangeability. For the reduction in bullet diameter was to .299in., and the 299152 and 299153 moulds for it illustrated in an old Ideal handbook I have, had still had a slight heel and no hollow base. Small defensive pistols are fired at close range, or even never at all, and could get away with inaccuracy which would provoke indignation in a small game rifle.

[rbertalotto]

I recently bought a 1892 Marlin that someone hsad refinished. A beautiful rifle but the refinish damaged the collector value. I found 32 Colt Short brass on GunBroker and 32 Colt Long resized from 32 S&W long. Heeled Bullets are available from a couple folk on GunBroker.

But after all that, the accuracy was Meh....And losing the very small brass at cowboy action shoots could get very exp[ensive. So I'm reaming it out to 32 S&W Long. Brass and bullets are very easy obtained and reports from others that have done this claim accuracy is MUCH better.

[Harry O]

I bought a .32 Short/Long Colt bullet mould from http://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/ about a year ago. It is a heel-base bullet. I already had a hollow-base bullet mould (Lyman 299155), so did not ask if he made those. I am extremely happy with the Old West mould. Fast turn-around, great workmanship, and a reasonable price. He also sells crimping tools for heel-base bullets. This is very important. The dies for loading them will NOT crimp a heel-base mould. They will ONLY work on hollow-base moulds. Without the crimp, the accuracy is pretty bad.

As far as the cases go, if you find any at a reasonable price, let the rest of us know. I am always on the lookout. Most of the antique BP ones I have bought in the past split on the first firing. No reloading for those. Picking up newer ones or empty cases is almost impossible. The few that make it to the auction places are too rich for my blood. Good luck.

BTW, I have made some cases from .32 S&W Long cases. It can be done, but the result was poor. If a machinist could make me a tool that would compress the brass base from .335" to .318" in diameter I would have it made. I would probably take an industrial sized press to do that, though.

[Chev. William]

Harry O and Terry m1-03:
RE: Making .32 Colt (318' Diameter) Brass from .32 S&W Long (.337" diameter) Brass.

YES, It Can Be done!

I have done it using .32 Short/Long Colt Reloading die Sets with some added tools; to whit, a "RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Tool Kit", a 3/16" Inside Diameter Fender Washer, a Long Pin Punch with about 1/2" of the tip Tapered down to about .165" and the Edge radiused so it will NOT Jam in Reformed Cases at the Web/Wall Junction AND relieved at the Hand grip to fit inside The Top of the die body, A hammer, and a "RCBS "RC" Reloading Press with a "Ammomaster II" Handle Fitted to it (about 4" longer and has a Ball Grip).

The Primer pocket is supported by the Swaging punch nose IF you Use the Stripping cup with the Fender washer on top to support the Base of the Cartridge to be formed.

The case to be formed HAS to be Lubed or it will 'Stick or Crush' in the process.

The Sizing die REQUIRES enough 'Mouth Radius and Taper' to gather the Case mouth and guide it into the Die Body BUT do not use too Large a Radius or too long a taper or your cases will need to go through a Second Forming Operation in a Straight Cylinder Forming die with a smaller Radius at the Mouth.

I am Lucky to have a pair of Joe Mueller (Hollywood Engineering) made .32 Long Colt sizing dies, with one "opened out" to Size Cases Exactly to Fit my Chambers. The second one is To size down to the .316" nominal Joe used for Sizing .32 colt cases. The Case Brass springs back slightly after Swaging so they come out .3175" to .3185" as resized.

I have found on NEW BRASS S&W Long Cases there is a small 'ring' of displaced Brass that needs to be removed above the Rim, it is slightly larger on .327 Federal Magnum Brass.
Some time s it 'shears off due to the Undercut of the Extractor Clearance Groove and can be worked off the case with the Finger tips.

After Forming you will need to trim cases to the Length YOUR Chamber And Bullet choice require. In my case, an Accurate Mold 311090A Bullet with Heel and Lube groove in the Heel allows me to chamber cartridges if I trim The Case to .912" Length.

I have an "Old West Moulds" Custom Collet Crimp die and Shell Holder that allows me to crimp my heeled Bullets nicely. I have fired the Cases as Adapters for .22 Cal. Blanks as Primers in a Stevens Favorite with .22RF Breech block and .32 Long Barrel and get Acceptable Accuracy out of the 100 plus year old Barrel previously fired with corrosive primed BP RF cartridges.

I do have a Stevens Model 44 that is in the process of conversion to CF and fitting a cut down .300 Win. Barrel chambered in .32 Long Colt. My Gunsmith is doing the work as a "Back Burner and low cost project" for me.

The Reloading .32 Rimfire Thread has a HUGE Amount of data on the Processes And Loads Tested. I suggest You read the thread from Beginning to End and then decide your Courses of actions.

Also, the Gentleman on 'Gunbroker.com' selling .32 Long colt cases and Suitable Bullets I believe is John Harrison, and I usually find his random Selling Post by searching for the Bullet "299153" or the case ".32 Long Colt".

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ohiochuck]

In the Winter 2015 issue of the Black Powder Cartridge there was a 7 page article about loading the 1892 Marlin .32 Rimfire and center fire. The author is Harvey Pennington. He was loading .32 Long cases with black powder and using small pistol primers. With a 81 g boolit and 11 g Goex FFF he says the velocity was 1054 fps.
Jim

[Terryrm1-03]

I see you found brass. For anyone else looking, I just got an Email ad from http://www.buffaloarms.com/ that features brass for 32 long and short Colt.
Thanks, I found those also on there. But they have TEMP out of stock, Back orders OK.
There's an option, for anyone else.

[Terryrm1-03]

In the Winter 2015 issue of the Black Powder Cartridge there was a 7 page article about loading the 1892 Marlin .32 Rimfire and center fire. The author is Harvey Pennington. He was loading .32 Long cases with black powder and using small pistol primers. With a 81 g boolit and 11 g Goex FFF he says the velocity was 1054 fps.
Jim
Thanks Jim! That falls into the 22 cal velocities. Others I've read that own these say accuracy is awesome!
That's the velocity that I found for my 1873 Trapdoor. When I dialed her down to 1050-1100fps, my groups went from 5" to 2"-2-1/2".
She's low recoil and a blast at 100yds hitting filled milk jugs. That 405 blasts water all over the place!!!
Thanks for the input!

[Terryrm1-03]

Thank you! Very informative!
John is the guy I purchased the 50 rds from. Just wanted to see if they work OK. No reason why they shouldn't! Then I'll post on here for others.
He has heeled bullets also.
Thanks everyone for your input, Great group of guys here!

Harry O and Terry m1-03:
RE: Making .32 Colt (318' Diameter) Brass from .32 S&W Long (.337" diameter) Brass.

YES, It Can Be done!

I have done it using .32 Short/Long Colt Reloading die Sets with some added tools; to whit, a "RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Tool Kit", a 3.16" Inside Diameter Fender Washer, a Long Pin Punch with about 1/2" of the tip Tapered down to aobut .165" and the Edge radiused so it will NOT Jam in Reformed Cases at the Web/Wall Junction AND relieved at the Hand grip to fit inside The Top of the die body, A hammer, and a "RCBS "RC" Reloading Press with a "Ammomaster II" Handle Fitted to it (about 4" longer and has a Ball Grip).

The Primer pocket is supported by the Swaging punch nose IF you Use the Stripping cup with the Fender washer on top to support the Base of the Cartridge to be formed.

The case to be formed HAS to be Lubed or it will 'Stick or Crush' in the process.

The Sizing die REQUIRES enough 'Mouth Radius and Taper' to gather the Case mouth and guide it into the Die Body BUT do not use too Large a Radius or too long a taper or your cases will need to go through a Second Forming Operation in a Straight Cylinder Forming die with a smaller Radius at the Mouth.

I am Lucky to have a pair of Joe Mueller (Hollywood Engineering) made .32 Long Colt sizing dies, with on e"opened out" to Size Cases Exactly to Fit my Chambers. The second one is To size down to the .316" nominal Joe used for Sizing .32 colt cases. The Case Brass springs back slightly after Swaging so they come out .3175" to .3185" as resized.

I have found on NEW BRASS S&W Long Cases there is a small 'ring' of displaced Brass that needs to be removed above the Rim, it is slightly larger on .327 Federal Magnum Brass.
Some time s it 'shears off due to the Undercut of the Extractor Clearance Groove and can be worked off the case with the Finger tips.

After Forming you will need to trim cases to the Length YOUR Chamber And Bullet choice require. In my case, an Accurate Mold 311090A Bullet with Heel and Lube groove in the Heel allows me to chamber cartridges if I trim The Case to .912" Length.

I have an "Old West Moulds" Custom Collet Crimp die and Shell Holder that allows me to crimp my heeled Bullets nicely. I have fired the Cases as Adapters for .22 Cal. Blanks as Primers in a Stevens Favorite with .22RF Breech block and .32 Long Barrel and get Acceptable Accuracy out of the 100 plus year old Barrel previously fired with corrosive primed BP RF cartridges.

I do have a Stevens Model 44 that is in the process of conversion to CF and fitting a cut down .300 Win. Barrel chambered in .32 Long Colt. My Gunsmith is doing the work as a "Back Burner and low cost project" for me.

The Reloading .32 Rimfire Thread has a HUGE Amount of data on the Processes And Loads Tested. I suggest You read the thread from Beginning to End and then decide your Courses of actions.

Also, the Gentleman on 'Gunbroker.com' selling .32 Long colt cases and Suitable Bullets I believe is John Harrison, and I usually find his random Selling Post by searching for the Bullet "299153" or the case ".32 Long Colt".

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Terryrm1-03]

I bought a .32 Short/Long Colt bullet mould from http://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/ about a year ago. It is a heel-base bullet. I already had a hollow-base bullet mould (Lyman 299155), so did not ask if he made those. I am extremely happy with the Old West mould. Fast turn-around, great workmanship, and a reasonable price. He also sells crimping tools for heel-base bullets. This is very important. The dies for loading them will NOT crimp a heel-base mould. They will ONLY work on hollow-base moulds. Without the crimp, the accuracy is pretty bad.

As far as the cases go, if you find any at a reasonable price, let the rest of us know. I am always on the lookout. Most of the antique BP ones I have bought in the past split on the first firing. No reloading for those. Picking up newer ones or empty cases is almost impossible. The few that make it to the auction places are too rich for my blood. Good luck.

BTW, I have made some cases from .32 S&W Long cases. It can be done, but the result was poor. If a machinist could make me a tool that would compress the brass base from .335" to .318" in diameter I would have it made. I would probably take an industrial sized press to do that, though.
The Mans name is John Harrison. Username on Gunbroker is Tenmile. I don't know how to share links on this new computer. Search him
on GB 32 Long colt brass.
Thanks for the crimping die info. Did not know this about the heeled bullets. I bought 100 heeled from tenmile to try out. I had no choice but try his brass and bullets. I couldn't find any anywhere either! Thanks Terry

[Terryrm1-03]

Thanks Roy! Another option to consider! this rifle isn't a collector one either, so reaming to S&W would work! I have 32 S&W Iver Johnsons!
I recently bought a 1892 Marlin that someone hsad refinished. A beautiful rifle but the refinish damaged the collector value. I found 32 Colt Short brass on GunBroker and 32 Colt Long resized from 32 S&W long. Heeled Bullets are available from a couple folk on GunBroker.

But after all that, the accuracy was Meh....And losing the very small brass at cowboy action shoots could get very exp[ensive. So I'm reaming it out to 32 S&W Long. Brass and bullets are very easy obtained and reports from others that have done this claim accuracy is MUCH better.

[Terryrm1-03]

Again guys! Thanks very much for your help, I've learned a WHOLE BUNCH on the caliber WOW! More than I really was expecting!
Terry

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I recently bought a 1892 Marlin that someone hsad refinished. A beautiful rifle but the refinish damaged the collector value. I found 32 Colt Short brass on GunBroker and 32 Colt Long resized from 32 S&W long. Heeled Bullets are available from a couple folk on GunBroker.

But after all that, the accuracy was Meh....And losing the very small brass at cowboy action shoots could get very exp[ensive. So I'm reaming it out to 32 S&W Long. Brass and bullets are very easy obtained and reports from others that have done this claim accuracy is MUCH better.

This should work well if the right bullet diameter is used. I think with modern dies the substitution or reduction of the expander should permit you to go part-way from .312 to .307 if the latter is the groove diameter you have. Modern dies would probably allow you to load slightly larger than .312 if that is needed.

You would probably have to alter the bolt fact for the .32S&W rim.

As for making the Colt-diameter case from the S&W, home-made dies and a powerful vice would do it. You have to reduce only the beginning of the solid head, and then turn down the rest. I've used a mandrel for an electric screwdriver in conjunction with a miniature size of carpenter's rebate plane. A hand-held electric drill tends to build up cyclic vibration and turn things slightly star-shaped. If you do want to size down the entire case-head you need some sort of holder with a spigot to make sure the primer pocket keeps its shape, or a reamer to restore it.

[Terryrm1-03]

This should work well if the right bullet diameter is used. I think with modern dies the substitution or reduction of the expander should permit you to go part-way from .312 to .307 if the latter is the groove diameter you have. Modern dies would probably allow you to load slightly larger than .312 if that is needed.

You would probably have to alter the bolt fact for the .32S&W rim.

As for making the Colt-diameter case from the S&W, home-made dies and a powerful vice would do it. You have to reduce only the beginning of the solid head, and then turn down the rest. I've used a mandrel for an electric screwdriver in conjunction with a miniature size of carpenter's rebate plane. A hand-held electric drill tends to build up cyclic vibration and turn things slightly star-shaped. If you do want to size down the entire case-head you need some sort of holder with a spigot to make sure the primer pocket keeps its shape, or a reamer to restore it.
thank you. My groove diameter is .314 on this rifle.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

thank you. My groove diameter is .314 on this rifle.

Ah, good. I'm grateful to you for clearing up something I only suspected was the case in earlier examples than mine.

You would probably get the best accuracy with heel bullets. For non-heel smaller ones there is just a chance that soft ones might work, but I would feel happier with them hollow-based, and would still expect accuracy to be less than the best.

If you did the .32S&W conversion I think the usual .312in. bullet would be fine, although soft, flat base and .314in. would each make it surer.

[Terryrm1-03]

Here's pics of the OLE girl. Got all cleaned up and lubed. Not much finish left though! I don't mind I LOVE the good used look!
178394178395

[smkummer]

I am really thinking about one of these squirrel rifles but the first thing I would do is have it converted to 32 S&WLong. Who has done this and who does anyone recommend? Cost? This gun would be 1/2 the price to shoot as a 22LR with a cast bullet. And I could make my own 32 "quiet" ammo for my back yard rural sub-division with a grain or less of fast burning pistol powder.

[Mk42gunner]

Nice looking old rifle there, Terry. It is considerably better than most I have found for sale.

Robert

[Terryrm1-03]

Nice looking old rifle there, Terry. It is considerably better than most I have found for sale.

Robert
Hi Robert, She's an auction rifle. Totally never had any attention, for many, many years! She's been completely, tore down, and all old crud washed away, and new lube 100& thru and thru! Price was 370.00. SWEET! No firing pin though! 25.00 for a new one from Wisner's. Take care Terry





Thankls for inquiring! Terry

[Harry O]

I went to a gunshow today and found a box of 46 .32 Long Colt cartridges with the long case and hollow-base bullets. It was surprisingly cheap at $35. That is the third partial box at a reasonable cost that I have found in a year-and-a-half (total of 140 cartridges). I passed on one other box that the guy wanted $2 per cartridge for. I have two Colt small frame revolvers in that caliber. There are also a lot of cartridges in the basement that I have handloaded in .32 Colt. All of them are reasonably accurate. Not as good as a K-38, but good enough for plinking.

Here are pictures of my handloads. The left one is a Factory .32 Short case (0.640" long) with a hollow-base Hornady wadcutter that had a heel pressed into it. The center one is a homemade 0.780" long case with a heel-base bullet from my Old West mould. The right one is a Factory .32 Long Colt case (0.910" long) with a hollow-base bullet from my Lyman/Ideal 299155 mould. All are about equally accurate. You guys have convinced me to take out one of the revolvers tomorrow and shoot it some.

178431

[Mk42gunner]

Hi Robert, She's an auction rifle. Totally never had any attention, for many, many years! She's been completely, tore down, and all old crud washed away, and new lube 100& thru and thru! Price was 350.00. SWEET! No firing pin though! 25.00 for a new one from Wisner's. Take care Terry





Thankls for inquiring! Terry

ACK. The last one I saw at a gun show had been wire brushed (probably with an angle grinder) until it was shiny, and had a price tag of $700 on it.

Robert

[Bent Ramrod]

Another solution to the brass problem is to acquire a caliber .25-20 Single Shot rifle and set up to reload it. As the case necks crack, the shells can be trimmed for either .32 Long Rifle ( for the hollow base Inside Lubricated boolit) or the .32 Long Outside Lubricated heel boolit.

[Terryrm1-03]

Another solution to the brass problem is to acquire a caliber .25-20 Single Shot rifle and set up to reload it. As the case necks crack, the shells can be trimmed for either .32 Long Rifle ( for the hollow base Inside Lubricated boolit) or the .32 Long Outside Lubricated heel boolit.
Thank you! I have read and heard of guys using the 25-20 to make brass will keep that in mind