1860 Army 44: would it be enough?

[taco650]

My title says it all. FYI, this year I'm going to hunt a new unit that's pretty thick. It is managed by the state game dept. and they've put in a few feed plots. It's a shotgun-with-slugs or muzzleloader only unit. The whitetail deer around my part of Georgia aren't too big & my revolver is accurate enough at 25yds for the shot using 30gr of 3f and round ball. I just wonder if it has enough power to make a broad side kill.

Thoughts anyone? Has anyone ever done this?

[Wolfer]

I've shot two deer with my repro 58 rem. All the FFFg I could get in the cylinder with a Lee 452-200 RF About 700 fps. I couldent tell any difference in killing power from deer I've shot with my 45 colt. Penatration is not a real issue and if you put a 45 cal hole in both lungs you will have a dead deer shortly.

These two deer were a real eye opener for me. Where you put the hole means a lot more than what you put it with.

Know your limitations and stay within them and you'll be fine.

[Texas by God]

Yes it will and has. Be sure to check your regulations for your hunt area. In Texas you can use a cap&ball revolver during regular firearms season- but not on muzzleloader only hunts. Even better you can hunt deer with a .25 auto pistol but not a .22 Mag rifle. Makes perfect sense to someone I'm sure. Best, Thomas.

[quail4jake]

As long as your revolver groups and hits on the sight well...shoot, shoot, shoot and feel confident at your range limit, DO IT! I'm soon to take my 1860 deer hunting this year, I will post results. Here's the ballistics: 140gr .454 ball @ 1080 fps SD 18 out of well worked and bore lapped Pietta 1860 Army loaded with 32gr Swiss FFFg and RWS 1080 caps. Groups <3" @ 25 yds. Best of luck!
178186178187

[tsubaki]

I looked into doing the same thing a good while back but was undecided in using it, even on our island sized deer.
If you are successful please do let us know the results.

Hornady's results, provided 30gr will get it up to 900fps.



RANGE(YARDS)
VELOCITY(FPS)
ENERGY(FT.-LB.)
TRAJECTORY(IN)
COME UP IN MOA
COME UP IN MILS
WIND DRIFT(IN)
WIND DRIFT IN MOA
WIND DRIFT IN MILS












Muzzle
900
254
-0.5
0
0
0
0
0


25
848
225
0
0
0
0
0
0


50
804
202
-2.5
4.8
1.4
0
0
0


75
763
182
-8.4
10.7
3.1
0
0
0


100
726
165
-18
17.2
5
0
0
0


The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/snippets/custom/ballistics_calculator/images/fueled-by-hornady.jpg

YOUR ROUND
141 GR.
0.064 B.C.




Range
Muzzle
25
50
75
100


Trajectory
-0.5
0
-2.5
-8.4
-18


Come UP in MOA
0
0
4.8
10.7
17.2


Come UP in Mils
0
0
1.4
3.1
5




Here is the same at 820fps.





RANGE(YARDS)
VELOCITY(FPS)
ENERGY(FT.-LB.)
TRAJECTORY(IN)
COME UP IN MOA
COME UP IN MILS
WIND DRIFT(IN)
WIND DRIFT IN MOA
WIND DRIFT IN MILS












Muzzle
820
211
-0.5
0
0
0
0
0


25
778
189
5.5
-20.7
-6
0
0
0


50
740
171
7.8
-14.8
-4.3
0
0
0


75
704
155
6.1
-7.8
-2.3
0
0
0


100
670
141
0.1
-0.1
0
0
0
0


The following table is provided as a "cheat sheet" that you can tape to your gun.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/snippets/custom/ballistics_calculator/images/fueled-by-hornady.jpg

YOUR ROUND
141 GR.
0.064 B.C.




Range
Muzzle
25
50
75
100


Trajectory
-0.5
5.5
7.8
6.1
0.1


Come UP in MOA
0
-20.7
-14.8
-7.8
-0.1


Come UP in Mils
0
-6
-4.3
-2.3
0

[Wayne Smith]

As stated, check your laws. Increasingly it is not if it is effective but if some lobbyist has convinced legislators, none of whom shoot these guns, that is is or isn't 'right'.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It should work under the right circumstances, but what are the chances your getting the wrong circumstances - i.e. a rear, obscured or running shot? It ma.kes a lot of sense, regulations permitting, to have a muzzle-loading rifle plus the revolver in a position where you can draw it quickly and quietly.

[44man]

I have taken many deer with my Old Army and Pete has with his Rem. Does as good as the .44 mag.
Only thing is the accurate distance. It is closer, like archery.
But we use as much FFFG as will fit behind a RB. We get over 1100 fps. We never tried a boolit.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have taken many deer with my Old Army and Pete has with his Rem. Does as good as the .44 mag.
Only thing is the accurate distance. It is closer, like archery.
But we use as much FFFG as will fit behind a RB. We get over 1100 fps. We never tried a boolit.

Yes, I think round ball is the best projectile to use in this situation, and you could get considerably more than 900ft./sec. with it. You would have to make a range table in inconveniently small print to tape it to a revolver, and you would probably want to be looking elsewhere. But the ones above suggest that you could about ignore range up to 75 yards, and forget 100.

[rodwha]

The velocity will depend on the powder used:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

[rodwha]

I had Accurate Molds work a design for a WFN boolit that was about the length of a ball so as not to take up precious powder capacity. It weighs 195 grns compared to 144 for a 0.457" ball. Having more bearing surface to create friction and having a greater weight will increase the pressures a bit compared to a ball which will then increase the velocity a little. Omnivore had found that he got slightly more velocity using the 180 grn Buffalo Ball compared to a ball.

It hasn't been tested or proven but I'd have to say that my 195 grn WFN boolit is superior to a ball for several reasons. 1) It will hold its velocity much better over a longer distance. 2) Having more mass it will penetrate better, especially through bone and angling shots. 3) The wide meplat is known as a better wound creating projectile to a RN.

This is my 195 grn boolit for my cap n ball guns:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png

My more accurate load in my Remington NMA is 30 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7. My Ruger's load is 35 grns and these hold true if it's a ball, my 170 grn version (0.400" long), or my 195 grn boolit. These all produce about the same size group at 15 yds offhand. I wish I had a chronograph to get a better idea of the velocity/energy but by the similar powder charges and projectiles I figure the NMA is getting 375-425 ft/lbs and the ROA is getting 450-500 ft/lbs +/- 25.

[jhalcott]

I've killed a LOT of deer with small caliber, slow bullets. IF (big IF) the deer is NOT aware of your presence or other wise alerted, about any projectile THRU the lungs or heart is good. Even a sharp stick can work. If that deer is at all alerted by some sense of danger, it can/will "jump the string". A round ball at 800 to 900 fps can result in a wound that will take hours to days to kill. MOST of the deer I have killed have been crop raiding Does! These are normally much easier to kill than a Trophy class buck. These are almost 2 different species of animal.

[taco650]

My range limit for this venture should I attempt it... is 25-30 yards. I'm aware of the limitations of my load (~30gr 3f Goex under a .454 RB) and the lack of precision sights so I'll have to be very picky about taking a shot. I'm meat hunting but wouldn't pass up a legal buck if I saw one. I probably should just buy a proper ML rifle and be done with it.

The unit I'm hunting allows shotguns with slugs and that's my other option (and one I used last year although I didn't get a shot). Just wanted another option to avoid the recoil of a 12gauge slug load.

Thanks for all your input!

[rodwha]

30 grns of Goex with a ball is not attempt anything but an ice broadside shot. Not that I know it's not capable, but that it seems rather marginal at best. Just look at what 40 grns of standard Goex produced with a ball. Wouldn't be concerned with a coup de grace.

Goex makes Olde Eynsford which is much more energetic.

[GhostHawk]

Have to agree with Jhalcott. I watched a big doe standing looking at us outjump a .410 slug once.
You could see that she jumped at the shot and no part of her was where she was when the slug got there.

If they are looking at you freeze, wait for them to glance away then let fly.

[44man]

Have to agree with Jhalcott. I watched a big doe standing looking at us outjump a .410 slug once.
You could see that she jumped at the shot and no part of her was where she was when the slug got there.

If they are looking at you freeze, wait for them to glance away then let fly.
NO, don't freeze, it scares them. Lightly stamp your foot at them. Act like a deer and they will settle.
I get 41 gr of Swiss FFFG behind a ball in my ROA. The problem with distance is the twist. Too fast for a RB.

[taco650]

30 grns of Goex with a ball is not attempt anything but an nice broadside shot. Not that I know it's not capable, but that it seems rather marginal at best. Just look at what 40 grns of standard Goex produced with a ball. Wouldn't be concerned with a coup de grace.


NO, don't freeze, it scares them. Lightly stamp your foot at them. Act like a deer and they will settle.
I get 41 gr of Swiss FFFG behind a ball in my ROA. The problem with distance is the twist. Too fast for a RB.

Just a reminder, the revolver I'm thinking about using is a Uberti 1860 Army replica that I got in kit form in 1982. Also, I'm using GOEX because that's what I have. My usual load for this handgun is 30 gr topped with a felt Wonder Wad and then a RB. Haven't tried more powder and don't think I could get much more in anyway. And yes, it would have to be a clear, broadside shot at very close range before I would take it. I'm not into losing game and there is private land on all side of this small, state owned plot and I'm not interested in meeting the neighbors if at all possible.

44man, thanks for the advice on deer behavior! Any suggestions on how to NOT freak them out with the sound of cocking the revolver if/when I get a shot?

[rodwha]

Typically holding the trigger back while cocking helps quiet the sounds.

[quail4jake]

I guess everyone has their own "last second" thing they do before firing on a deer, well I yell "HEY" loud! they look , I shoot and generally make a good hit. Of course, there is the trick of waiting until they have a sweet potato clenched in their teeth. Please, never mistake deer hunting for a victimless sport. Right. Well then. Try close range first and choose low hanging fruit...a young, naïve, virginal doe deeply engulfed in your bait pile will do, I suppose. BTW, very tender, try the tenderloins sautéed in butter (a lot of butter), Worcestershire sauce, cabernet and a chutney of apples and sweet potatoes from the same bait pile. I think I'll send this to the PETA cookbook editor. People Eating Tasty Animals...right?

[Hickok]

Been shooting Cap and Ball since the Ark hit dry ground.

I know what I am about to say will bring out crowds of angry villagers with torches and pitch forks gathered around the old hanging tree, but for the first couple of rounds out of a BP revolver, you can leave out the wads, and load as much powder as will allow the cylinder to freely turn with a round ball. This can get a little more velocity. Lube the cylinder pin, and run a patch down the barrel with Crisco or your favorite bp lube, and you can forget any lube under or on top of the ball.

You can fire an entire cylinder in this way. Since you are hunting, you aren't going to fire enough rounds to be concerned about powder fowling. A little lube in the barrel, (just a fine coating) and a little on the cylinder pin will keep the revolver working for hunting. The first shot is what counts. The Colt will use a little less powder than the Remington .44, as the cylinder is smaller.

I know that this is blasphemy, and the local townspeople will be forming a lynching party, so I must saddle up and ride before the posse finds me!:shock:

[44man]

I use Rugers and BFR's. It seems the cylinder stop is what makes the most noise. I am going to try and hold the cylinder as it turns to see if it dampens the noise.
Now the half cock, safety and full cock on the Colt action works better if you hold the trigger back.
I use STP on my cylinder pins and it also works fine with BP. I get to shoot all day without binding up.