More Firelap

[Tatume]

The Super Blackhawk improved so much following the LBT fire lap that I gave my Redhawk the same treatment. Previously the best groups this gun would shoot were 2" at 25 yards and 4" at 50 yards. Today it shot these groups, with which I am very pleased.

178108

178109

Fire lapping works.

[5Shot]

The Super Blackhawk improved so much following the LBT fire lap that I gave my Redhawk the same treatment. Previously the best groups this gun would shoot were 2" at 25 yards and 4" at 50 yards. Today it shot these groups, with which I am very pleased.

178108

178109

Fire lapping works.

How many rounds did it take?

[Tatume]

I used 20 fire lap rounds per gun.

[toallmy]

A member has sent me a fire lap kit but I have put it off until the winter so I have time to pay attention to what I am doing . I have a stainless Ruger that I want to try it on . I have done a lot of research on fire lap , and looked into hand lapping as well but have not tried ether yet . I may just try running a couple hundred full charged jacket rounds through it first as a member hear has recommended in the past . Glad to see it has worked out well for you . Posting your results is inspiring .

[dubber123]

The Super Blackhawk improved so much following the LBT fire lap that I gave my Redhawk the same treatment. Previously the best groups this gun would shoot were 2" at 25 yards and 4" at 50 yards. Today it shot these groups, with which I am very pleased.

178108

178109

Fire lapping works.

About the only people I have ever found with anything bad to say about firelapping have never tried it, but nevertheless are convinced it is a bad idea. I have not once had a negative experience from the process.

It can sometimes take MANY more shots than yours did, and you have to pay attention along the way. I'm glad you are having such success :)

[Tatume]

Another.

178755

[Blackwater]

Thanks for the report, Tatume. I have a Ruger with the constriction at the joint of barrel/frame. Need to lap it out. Do you or anyone have a recommendation? I think I need to use hard bullets for that, don't I? And the coarser grit? It's a 50th Anniv., and Ruger has no more of those barrels with which to replace it, but offered to replace it with a plain, unmarked barrel. I just wasn't much interested in that. So ... it's lap or let it lead badly as it's been doing, and accuracy just isn't there with that darn constriction, either, and that's certainly not satisfying. I love the little gun, a New Model (smaller frame) .357. Neat gun, and just enough smaller/lighter to matter for carrying and handling, yet still very strong. If anyone's done this - removed a constriction - I'd really like to hear about how you went about it. Lead alloy, diameter, and velocity are important I know, but having not done this myself, I need some input on it.

Lapping has proven WAY to effective to poo poo it, but knowing how to go about it seems to be a sometimes critical factor in getting the best results. Smoothing a bore is one thing, and as I understand it, soft lead does well for that. But actual constrictions, IIRC (?) calls for a hard alloy. Am I right here, or has my memory played tricks on me again?

[DougGuy]

tatume if you want groups to be even better send me the cylinders and let me even them up.. It's better to do this before firelapping so the throats don't downsize the lapping boolits but it will still work afterwards.

Some might find this rather funny, it's funny to me now that I think back on it.. I had a RBH with short barrel and the barrel was just full of scratches and tool marks it looked like they rifled it with a sawblade. I read about firelapping but back then (25yrs) there wasn't a kit or instructions available, so... I bought a bottle of J&B bore cleaner that was broken and had sat on a shelf in the gun store for years and years, all the good stuff settled into the bottom of it, I poured off the oil, and I used some 255gr LSWC boolits that were hard, and I boiled the hard lube out of the grooves, and seated them partway down into some cases that had an EXTREME flare, and i packed the lube grooves as full as I could get them with the thick bore cleaner, then seated them fully and crimped them and I shot them over 8.5gr of Unique. 50 rounds of full power ammo. It surely smoothed the horribly rough rifling, I could see a night and day difference in the finish of the bore, and groups shrunk by half!

It smoked SO bad, and bore cleaner was all over the outsides of the gun, the sides of the booth at the range, anywhere the barrel cylinder gap could expel it at high velocity, there it was. I laid the gun gently in the rag I brought it in and tried to touch it as little as possible, thinking with that much fine abrasive all over it, it would wear through the bluing but I got it home and got it cleaned up and I have to say firelapping, even as crudely as I did it, with full power loads, really worked good.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the report, Tatume. I have a Ruger with the constriction at the joint of barrel/frame. Need to lap it out. Do you or anyone have a recommendation? I think I need to use hard bullets for that, don't I? And the coarser grit? It's a 50th Anniv., and Ruger has no more of those barrels with which to replace it, but offered to replace it with a plain, unmarked barrel. I just wasn't much interested in that. So ... it's lap or let it lead badly as it's been doing, and accuracy just isn't there with that darn constriction, either, and that's certainly not satisfying. I love the little gun, a New Model (smaller frame) .357. Neat gun, and just enough smaller/lighter to matter for carrying and handling, yet still very strong. If anyone's done this - removed a constriction - I'd really like to hear about how you went about it. Lead alloy, diameter, and velocity are important I know, but having not done this myself, I need some input on it.

Lapping has proven WAY to effective to poo poo it, but knowing how to go about it seems to be a sometimes critical factor in getting the best results. Smoothing a bore is one thing, and as I understand it, soft lead does well for that. But actual constrictions, IIRC (?) calls for a hard alloy. Am I right here, or has my memory played tricks on me again?

Air cooled WW's are hard enough. I use 320 grit valve grinding compound, which is "middle grade" coarse. It leaves bores much smoother than all but the best factory barrel, but cuts reasonably quickly.

As Doug said, making sure the throats are larger than the bore is a good idea, and if they are here is my procedure:

Get 2 flat steel plates and apply a liberal amount of the compound to them. Place your unlubed WW boolits on the bottom plate on a sturdy table. I normally do 6 at a time. Lay the top plate over them and with a good firm downward pressure, roll the boolits between the plates. Don't get too worried about squashing them, you won't. Be aware that the compound adds measurably to the diameter and you may have to start with a smaller boolit to end up with a loadable diameter. Check this out before doing a pile of boolits only to find out they won't chamber. After embedding the grit thoroughly into the boolits, you can wipe off most of the excess, some left in the grooves is fine, but you don't need gobs of it as the embedded compound does most of the work. In well flared cases, seat them over a small charge of fast burning powder, I normally use Bullseye. I can look in my notes for a load, but will wager less than 3 grains will do for your .357 mag, as you want to shoot them as slowly as will reliably exit the barrel. I like to shoot AT something while doing this to make sure of a clear bore. Bring along a good rod and mallet to tap out a stuck boolit if it happens, it's no big deal if it does. I shoot 6 and clean the bore well and repeat, noting the feel of the constriction. It's a slow process, you won't ruin your barrel in 6 rounds like the people who have never tried it will claim.;) I did a .45 BH that took well over 50. It cut groups from 5" at 50 yards to 2", well worth it.

[Tatume]

Hi Blackwater,

Dubber gave the procedure pretty well the same as I do it. The laps are loaded into cases that were not sized, and they are loaded with finger pressure only. They can usually be pushed pretty far down into the case, but don't force it and swell the case.

I'll add that the oil in the LBT Fire Lap kit has an uncanny ability to migrate and contaminate powder. The only way I could get every shot to reliably exit the barrel was to load the laps into charged cases at the range, and never turn one upside down. I fired them as soon as I loaded them. I held the cartridge with the bullet up, loaded it into the revolver with the muzzle up, slowly lowered the muzzle to level, and fired. I loaded them one shot at a time, but left the fired cases in the chambers until all six chambers had been fired. That way the chambers got equal treatment.

[Tatume]

Hi Doug,

I agree on reaming the chamber throats. The cylinders of these revolvers had already been reamed.

Thanks, Tom

[dubber123]

Tatume, I have been using Permatex brand valve grinding compound which is water based. The boolits are pretty much dry by the time you wipe off the excess and get them ready to load. Good catch on mentioning the unsized cases, that is the way I do it also.

[Tatume]

This time I was shooting at 100 yards. Most of my groups were 6 - 7 inches, which is reliable 100 yard deer accuracy. All of my shooting is from field positions.

179209

I'm really enjoying this Redhawk!

[Blackwater]

Thanks, guys. That's about how I remember it, but my forgetter is the only thing I've got that's getting stronger these days, and I like to verify before doing work like this. I did some very minor work some years back on a fellow's gun where he wanted a smoother bore that was kind'a like what Doug described, and it did get better, but was still no prize. He finally sold or traded it off, so I don't know who wound up with it. Probably someone who couldn't have told the difference, because my buddy mostly got it really cheap, and like me, wanted to try it. I think I used the 600 grit only, and there was some improvement (less leading) and it was a bit more accurate. I can't recall what brand the gun was, but it was an off brand. We both mainly just wanted to "get our feet wet" with it. I later did another gun for a fellow and he was very satisfied, but wasn't that great a shot. When I shot it, the difference was distinctly noticable, before and after, so I have good faith it'll work. Just need to get my round tuit. I love the little gun, but guns that won't shoot and lead don't stay here long, typically. Thanks for the refresher course.

[fiberoptik]

Here's a round tuit.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161022/0cdbdab8ed1a798820b636c231cd8276.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blackwater]

Thanks.:mrgreen:

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

A few questions for any of you who may have fire lapped a rifle barrel.

I Have a RUGER 77/44 in which I shoot cast bullets. It is already giving me 100yd deer groups, but would like to tighten up the groups if possible.

The barrel is good. After firing 40 - 60 rounds testing at velocities as high as 1700fps the barrel is spooky clean.

So, all indications are seeming to show that the barrel is not rough to any degree.

I have fire lapped hand guns, and put may 20 rounds down the barrel of a Browning A-Bolt that looked like it had been rifled with a threading tap, but although I have some more .44 mag test loads ready to fire, the home and weather situations have prevented me from getting to the range for the testing.

Any thoughts or suggestions along these lines.

For example, how much and what powder to make sure the bullet exits the bore?

Thanks,

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Tatume]

Hi Coot,

I've been using 2.0 grains of Bullseye, but I think it is marginal. In the future I plan to use 3.0 grains of Bullseye.

Take care, Tom

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Tom,

That is for a rifle barrel?

CDOC

[Tatume]

Hi Coot,

No, revolver, but I believe 3.0 grains of Bullseye will exit a rifle barrel as well (especially as there is no BC gap).

No matter the load, you need to be prepared to remove a stuck bullet. If you're loading charges that you are absolutely certain won't result in a stuck bullet, you are loading too hot for fire lapping. Bring a stiff brass or plastic-sleeved rod (not wood!) and a heavy hammer with you. A steel 3/8" inch rod from the Orange Box will work fine. Just wrap it every six inches or so with a several wraps of electricians tape so it can't touch your barrel.

Take care, Tom

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks!

CDOC

[Tatume]

The Redhawk continues to improve. Based on several groups today, of which this is obviously the best, it appears to like Sierra bullets better than Nosler. I think I'll try the 250 grain Tournament Master when I can get some. Any of you guys have experience hunting with that bullet?

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