Navy Arms Zola Zouave Questions

[49FMarlin]

Im refinishing a XX1(1965) 1:48 twist Zoli Zouave rifle,

1--can someone post me a link to the exact nipple wrench i need to buy at track of the wolf? I get confused,
I have a square sided nut nipple, measuring=0.2545

2- can someone explain the 3 leaf rear sight, and what yardage there each used for

3-been shooting 570 RB with 0.016 pillow ticking, starts down hard,

4-mini mold----lots of HELP needed here,
took a roundball and flattened it, drilled a small hole in it screwed in the ball extractor screw and tapped it down the barrel
pulled it out,
i get a measurement of 0.577
what size lee mold should i order for a mini to work in this rifle? and what charge of powder to start?

thank you for any info shared

[Tatume]

Im refinishing a XX1(1965) 1:48 twist Zoli Zouave rifle,

1--can someone post me a link to the exact nipple wrench i need to buy at track of the wolf? I get confused,
I have a square sided nut nipple, measuring=0.2545

The folks at Track are very nice, and very knowledgeable. Call them (763-633-2500. Call 9:00 - 5:00 weekdays) and they will help you.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Better to use a pin gauge for bore measurement as it's probably a 3 groove barrel. Of the Minie' balls I've fired over the past 40 or so years, the Lyman 575213 OS has proved it's worth more than any other single mold in a variety of guns, original, custom, and re-pop .58/.577. Whatever mold you go with though, size .001-.002" smaller than bore dia. I've used a load of about 50-55gr. Goex FFFg with good results more often than not with a .58 and Minie'. Also a bit of Accuraglass under the tang and breech does good for accuracy in most re-pops.

Most often I simply use a common 1/4" open end wrench for the nipple, I've broken most wrenches designed for the purpose eventually, cheap steel just doesn't hold up.

The sights are supposed to represent 100-300-500yds. It would have taken quite a bit of training the average soldier of the time to use them properly.

[dondiego]

I have a Lyman 575213 AV. What is the difference between the "OS" and the "AV"?

[quail4jake]

Well said, Ithaca Gunner, all true. Forget the round ball, pure lead and 575213 Lyman lube the grooves with 7 parts beeswax to 1 part bore butter, no lube in the base and use 60gr FFFg Swiss. If you do any sizing take it to .579 first, (my bore is .580) and don't bother with the sight leaves that won't stay in place anyway. I have the same $150 Zoli Zouave that has a reputation as poorly made an bad shooting but after some homespun gunsmithing and sticking true to original ammo specs it turned into a great shooter that I've killed deer with at pretty long distances. Oh, yeah... when I bought mine the guy who had it said it's no good and he can't even get a ball to seat all the way in the breech any more, hence the $150 tag. When I shopped it out, pulled the breech plug and pounded out 8 lead rings it all went better! Fortunately the guy was compulsive about cleaning and had oiled it to the point of oozing, the bore and muzzle are straight and clean. Did I mention the Treso cone with .028 basehole from Track of the Wolf?

[mooman76]

I have a Lyman 575213 AV. What is the difference between the "OS" and the "AV"?

I believe it is just in the order it was cut and who made it (the cherry).

[Ithaca Gunner]

I have a Lyman 575213 AV. What is the difference between the "OS" and the "AV"?

575213 OS stands for Old Style, thicker skirt and weighs around 460gr. 575213NS is New Style, thinner skirt and weighs around 500gr. I have no idea what AV stands for. Last I looked Lyman still cataloged both old and new styles of the 213 Minie. When Rapine was in business he had a .58 "International" style very much like the 575213 OS which shot very well also.

[bedbugbilly]

The OS should stand for "old style" minie ball. There are two Lyman 575-213 - one casts the OS - old style, where the nose is more pointed like many original CW minie balls were. The regular 575-213 has a nose that is a little bigger curve to it for want of a better word. I have shot many of both styles and I never saw much difference with the two. There is a minor difference between the two designs as far as grain weight but not really an issue. Again, both can shoot very well.

I bought a used Navy Arms Zoli Zouave a while ago. I used the barrel to switch out a barrel on my Zouave Rifle that I bought back in the early 60's - which had thousands of rounds through it. The Zoli barre dropped right in so I had no alterations to make to anything. My Lyman 575-213 mold, which I bought new in the early 60s, drops a minie that fits the barrel perfectly - you want it to have enough clearance so that it can be pushed home after firing with fouling in the barrel. I really have never measured the bore/minie but I'm guessing there is perhaps a .001 to .002 clearance. The design of the minie will allow the skirt to expand when the rifle is fired so there is no problem with a gas seal as it leaves the barrel. For lube, I've always just put a dab of Crisco in the base of the minie - has worked fine for over 50 years.

Standard service load for a 58 caliber rifled musket was 60 grains of 2F. The standard 4 sided base nipple (where wrench fits) should take a standard "musket" nipple wrench." You can either get a T musket nipple wrench or one of the reproduction military "box" musket nipple wrenches. Usually you can buy one (I believe it is a model 1855 wrench) from one of the Civil War Sutlers. Go to the N-SSA (North-South Skirmish Association) website - google NSSA - and there will be a list of Sutlers there. Track of the Wolf is another good source as mentioned.

As far as the leaf rear sight. If I remember correctly, the lowest is for 50 yards, the second for 100 yards and the 3rd for 200 yards - but it's been a while. The leaves should be stamped with a number such as 1 (100 yards) or 2 (200 yards) etc. Some one should come along who can correctly tell the leaf distances.

I can tell you from my own experiences that the Zouave is a good shooting rifle. I participated in a 1,000 yard match one time up at Camp Grayling, MI. We used the 1,000 meter machine gun range with pop down targets every 100 meters - targets approximately 2 feet X 4 feet. My team mate and I were using my Zouave, my original 1861 model, a Mississippi report and a 3 band Enfield repro. I could do pretty well out to 300 meters with my Zouave - well enough that under normal conditions you could take a man out - not every shot of course but once you got the elevation figured out and the windage, I could hit fairly consistent. Beyond that, it was "by the coat tails". :-) At 1,000 meters I was not able to hit the full size steel plate cut-out of a man on horseback - and it wasn't for lack of trying! LOL

Used Lyman/Ideal 575-213 molds can be found on flea bay fairly regular. There are several other styles as well including a smaller semi-wadcutter - can't remember the mold number although I have the mold. It is a hollow base as well and works well out of my Zouave for distances of 25 and 50 yards, etc. I used it often when shooting NSSA years ago. It's lighter than the standard minie and you can cut your powder usage down.

The three groove military style rifling is designed for the minie ball but you can get some good results with a patched round ball as well - and you may have already discovered this. I have known some in the past who "poo poo" this but if someone does . . . let them and then "do your thing". The three grove rifling should do nothing but help a patched round ball and you accuracy should be better than the same patch/ball out of a smooth bore.

The Zouave is a beautifully designed rifle. Have fun and enjoy!

EDIT: If you happen to get a mold that drops too big, you can purchase a push through sizer - works just like a Lee push thru sizer - that will go in your single stage press to size the minies to the correct size for your bore. I believer that Lodgewood Mfg. carries them. Mind drop the perfect size for my barrel so I just shoot them "as cast".

[bob208]

the biggest problems came from people using mini balls made out of wheel weights or way undersize. another problem was using too much powder which blows the skirt off giving the ring of lead left in the breach which was stated before.

[49FMarlin]

thank you guys a lot of info to soak in,

[bedbugbilly]

Marlin - bob208 makes an excellent point on the use of too much powder. Too often, folks think that "more is better" and some how will make a harder hitting and more accurate load. Quite frankly, I'm amazed when I see what some folks pour down their barrel at times whether it be a minie or a patched round ball.

I was taught to shoot muzzleloaders by an old gunsmith about 55 years ago - he was in his late eighties at the time and had been building, repairing and shooting BP all his life. He taught me C & B shooting with his original '51 Navy Colt - which is probably why the Naves have always been my favorites. I learned from him how to shoot rifled musket using his original Springfield and round ball using his old original half-stock percussion rifle. The one lesson he hammered in to my head was . . . "use enough powder to get the job done but not so much as to waste it". That lesson has always dictated my charges that I use in any of my rifles/smoothbores.

If too much is used in a rifled musket with a hollow base minie, you certainly can "blow the skirt" as bob points out. A rifled musket with an incorrect sized minie - i.e. an "oversize bore" - the minie will shoot but you'll find it going head over tail down range and it will usually "key hole" on the target. That is why it is important to have a good boolit to bore fit on a rifled musket. On some reproduction rifled muskets, you'll find an oversize bore - i've seen them as a;rge as and in the neighbor hood of .583 to .585. Most will/should be in the .577 - .578 range. The reason I switched out the barrel on my original (to me) report Zouave that I have shot for years with the Zoli barrel was that my barrel was oversize to begin with. I started having key holing problems once in a while and it was either go to a larger sized mine, switch out the barrel or send the barrel in for a "re-line" job. The Zoli barrel I have looks to be right around .577 and the nixie form my 575-213 drops at about .575 so it is a good fit.

With a good boolit to bore fit, you'll be fine with your Zouave. Like any rifle, work your loads up to the point where you get good accuracy for the distances you are going to shoot (in regards to target/plinking). You might find that your charge may vary from 25 to 50 yards or longer (or grains may not vary). It all will depend on your rifle. What is fun is to develop the load for 25 and 50 yards and then do some longer range shooting - 100 - 200 yards and to figure out your POA as opposed to your POI. Pretty soon you'll learn how high you have to aim to hit the target at a longer distance. I found with mine that if I stuck with the standard issue load of 60 grains of FFG, I soon was able to hit just about anything at 25, 50 and out to 150 yards in terms of being fairly consistent and at further yardages, hitting what we would call "center mass" as far as SD shooting - i.e. - being able to take out a man in opposing ranks. Have fun and enjoy! Hope you'll post some photos when your get her all fixed up!

[Hellgate]

The thicker skirted minies like the Lyman 575213-OS and the 577611 allow for heavier hunting charges. My Zoli Zouave likes the 575213-OS pushed by 90grs FFFg. My Euroarms Musketoon likes 90grs FFg and the 577611. They are good deer/elk guns out to 100 yds. The thinner skirted minies will often shoot very accurately with 30-50grs FFF or FF powder as proven by the N/SSA skirmishers.