25-20 Remington M-25 problem

[roysha]

I am working on a 25-20 M-25 that has a feeding issue. When feeding a round from the magazine, the cartridge will rise to where, perhaps the upper 1/4th of the case is visible in the ejection port and stop cold. Sometimes it is snug and other times the cartridge will flop around with only minimal contact with the "rim guides" on the face of the bolt and no contact with the lifter. I have polished the "camming slot" in the lifter with 600 grit stone in my Foredom thinking perhaps it was scored or otherwise roughened enough to cause the stoppage. I cleaned the plunger and spring that activates the trigger and lifter and made sure there were no burrs there to cause the lifter to catch and/or drag. No joy.
The gun other wise is in very good mechanical condition. The owner says that the situation just gradually got worse with time until it is virtually impossible to close the action with a round in it.
I have completely disassembled the ENTIRE gun and cannot find any thing that would be causing this problem. The bolt face is nice and smooth. The cartridge slips into position, with the bolt out of the gun, with very little resistance and that only from the extractor slipping on to the rim. The cartridge doesn't even get that far up, when the problem manifests itself, so I have eliminated that as a cause.
Without ammunition, the action closes as it should with very little forward pressure on the forearm required.
There just isn't a whole lot of information around on these neat little rifles so looking in a repair manual is pretty much out. I am at wits end. Can someone give me some advice?
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, I have posted on the Remington Society forum so no one need mention that.

[Char-Gar]

I have such a rifle and have had no feeding issues with it, so I can't help you. However, I would not keep polishing and messing with things hoping something would fix the problem. Find out what the problem is and fix it. Just mucking around with a firearms innards hoping something will work is just asking for more problems.

My best guess is an ammo issue. Factory loads and full length sized cases shove the case shoulder way back in his round. It just could be a case that is has the case shoulder too far forward.

If you don't have the right sizing die, send me a couple of cases and I will size them for you and send them back.

[2152hq]

On the action bar (the assembly attached to the magazine tube at the rear and has the loading gate on it on the side) there are two parts that may be causing the problem.
At the back end on the same side as the loading gate, there is a 'carrier dog' and a 'cartridge dog' (both factory part names). Both in slots on
that side,,one above the other. You'll have to pull the action bar out of the frame to get at this.

The cartridge dog is the top one. It's shaped almost like an extractor on a bolt, is spring powered by a small coil spring from behind the rear arm and pivots on a pin entering from the top of the bar down in betw the lugs that connect the action bar with the bolt when assembled. Check the cartridge dog for free movement/pivot. If it is jammed or does not move freely it can freeze the cartridge being fed so that the carrier cannot lift it into position. When no cartridge is present,,the carrier simply glides by the cartridge dog if it is pushed far enough out of the way to begin with.

Just beneath the cartridge dog is the 'carrier dog'. This is a plunger that is spring loaded by a flat spring that is secured to the action bar by a small flat headed screw. Probably not the problem as the gun cycles OK w/o ammo. It's job is to place pressure/tension on the carrier to hold it in positions during the feeding process. Make sure it isn't frozen or stuck in the compressed position. That would allow the carrier to flop back down too quickly during feeding cycle.


**The following is probably not something your rifle needs tending to, but thought it was worth mentioning as long as you own one and are deep into trouble-shooting it. Might be helpful in the future.**

Another thing to check on these (and 14/141 models) is that the magazine follower isn't over running it's stop shoulder inside the action bar.
The follower has a very small edge or shoulder on it that is supposed to catch on a matching supporting shoulder inside the machined mag tube well in the action tube. Sometimes due to wear, that shoulder on either part can become less than perfect and allow the mag follower to by-pass the stop shoulder,,go too far and jam against the carrier. This causes the action to function w/difficulty when no ammo is in the gun.