Swedish Mauser Rear Sight Question

[mtgrs737]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question so if it isn't feel free to move it to where it should be. I have a Swedish Mauser M96 in great conditon, the problem is that the rifle shoots to the left 3 to 4" at 100 yards. The rifle groups good, I have drifted the front sight over quite a bit but it is not enough to center the group. My question is what have you other owners of these riles done to get them to center the group? I am looking at installing a Lyman #57 receiver sight so that I can get the adjustments needed to center the goup. The peep sight may help with my aging eyes also. What are your thoughts?

[nicholst55]

Some will say not to permanently modify an unaltered milsurp rifle. I say it's no fun not to be able to hit your target. I'd do it, but then, I'm an accumulator, not a collector!

[HABCAN]

As a suggestion you might consider installing a B-Square scope mount on that 96's rear-sight base and mounting a LER scope? No permanent alteration and your 'old eyes' problem will go away. BTDT.

[Calamity Jake]

Sounds like the stock is applying side pressure on the barrel causing it to shoot left. I would free float the barrel first it see it that helped.
Also check the crown, it could have a bad place on it
Altering it's as issued condition will cut down on its value, unless you can put it back later.

[mtgrs737]

Thanks guys, that's Three good suggestions! I did give it some thought about not altering the rifle, it's steel is in excellent condition with all matching numbers, the stock is pretty dinged up though. Date on the receiver is 1909 Carl Gustafs Mfg.

[Larry Gibson]

I would also take a look to see if the front sight is verticle (perpendicular to rear sight). If not you can drift the front sight out, loosen the screw inside the sight cut, and gently heat the front sight band with a propane torch until the solder breaks loose. Quickly turn the front sight until verticle and remove flame from torch. The solder will reset. drift the front sight back in and shoot again. If you are shooting left and you've drifted the front sight to the left then the front site band need to be turned to the left. I've done this on many Mausers, Swedes included. The mild heat required from the propane torch should not damge or discolor the finnish.

Putting the reciever sight on the rifle is a good choice if you want to.

Larry Gibson

[mtgrs737]

Larry,

I was thinking that the receiver sight might help with the poor eyes situation too. I wouldn't think that a couple of holes would detract from the value that much, the stock wood removal might though. I have a friend that has another Swede rifle that I may try to get from him to see if it shoots to the left also with my loads.

[Tumtatty]

My swede had some crown issues that caused a similar problem. Now it shoots like a pro!

And...yes 2 holes will effect the value tremendously! Consider the B-Square scope mount or the Mojo Micro Click sight.

[mj2evans]

A matching number M96 should not be altered - you will kill the value (which is climbing). Please don't drill. Try the long ER scope.

[Larry Gibson]

Agree that the 2 holes will deter from "colletor" value. My rifles are shooters and I expect to wear them out anyways. The choice is yours though. Might try one of the "Mojo" sights that is a peep replacement for the front sight. Originallity can be returned in moments. I've a M96 and a M38 that I've changed the front sight on and the rear sight for improved shootability. I can return them back to original in moments also. I've another that i've extensively sporterized. It is a very nice hunting rifle. Again the choice is yoours.

Larry Gibson

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have an M38 that has the identical problem of continuing to shoot 4-6 inches to the left even with the front sight drifted as far to the left as it will go. I have to hold on the right hand edge of the target to get it to shoot into the center and it has driven me bananas. I had the crown checked by a gunsmith and that was ok. The mojo sight is a possible answer if one has 60+ dollars. The B square is also a possibility, but a pistol scope is required for that and that is a lot more $$$ than a mojo. I have been looking at the small screw that is located on the sight ladder; it sits just forward of the rear sight notch. Conceiveably a slightly longer version of it could be used, or the hole redrilled and tapped for a 6x48 screw long enough to mount a sight or part (the rear) of one such as used on the rear of a S&W N frame revolver might work, as it can be cranked left or right for windage. Another option might be to bend a short piece of sheet metal into an L with a new notch filed in the upper rear part of the L and the lower part having an elongated milled slot that would allow the whole L to be moved left or right and held by that same screw. One of these options will work; it'll just take some time and tiinkering. In the meantime if someone can come up with any ideas to add to the possible solution it would be most welcome. LLs

[mtgrs737]

I am sorry to hear that you have the same problem LLs. I would like the problem fixed easily and cheeply but that may not be possible. I have tried three different cast boolits and all shoot the same way. When the weather settles down here I will try again to see if I can get some more drift out of the front sight. Thanks for all your inputs.

[Calamity Jake]

LL and mtgrs737

I will say this one more time, no flames intended!!!!!


"Sounds like the stock is applying side pressure on the barrel causing it to shoot left. I would free float the barrel first it see it that helped."

Some where along the barrel channel there is side pressure being applied to the barrel, it would be out toward the muzzle and on the right side, making them shoot left.
Remove the two barrel bands and handguard then you can check for side pressure.

[mtgrs737]

Jake, I take a look! Thanks!

[dbldblu]

Williams makes a rear peep sight that replaces the original sight. It is adjustable for windage and elevation. You can return to the original configuration in a matter of minutes. I have one on my M96 and like it a lot.

[Antietamgw]

If you don't have a bedding issue...
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/Swedish/Soderin/Soderin007.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/Swedish/Soderin/Soderin009.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h232/Antietamgw/Swedish/Soderin/Soderin008.jpg
Swedish shooters like them pretty well. Wow, that thing sure is dusty!

[Dutchman]

I took a m/96 barreled action once and clamped the action into the vise on the milling machine.

Then at the end of the 29" barrel I applied just a little tiny bit of sideways pressure and that barrel flexes like you wouldn't believe. If you didn't see it you wouldn't believe it would flex that much. At least .150". At 100 yards you know how much that is? How much windage error at 100 yds would .020" of barrel flex or side pressure cause?

I agree there *might* be a bedding issue. Costs nothing to investigate otherwise.

Could be the sights on the barrel are not indexed top-dead-center but you can't get too far off before the handguard won't fit.

And then again, had an old ancient Orbea revolver. Smith & Wesson clone of a MP. .38 Special for blackpowder only
(PN proof mark = polvera negra = black powder).

Sold it to a friend of mine for $60. He takes it out and comes back with, "that thing shoots 4 feet to the left". Well, I knew it didn't so I waited until we went shooting together one time and I took the Orbea and rested it on the range sign at 50 yds and let loose 6 rds. Shot right where I pointed. Told him the gun didn't shoot 4 feet to the left... he did.

Shooter error is always a factor unless and until the problem is witnessed or a 2nd shooter tries the firearm. Don't say its not possible:)

Dutch

[mtgrs737]

Dutch,

With my aging eyes anything is possible. Would a peep rear sight not be better for us whom are in the reading glasses mode? I will see about a bore sighter and try and figure this out. Thanks for your reply/suggestions I appreciate all you folks lending your knowledge to me.

[Dutchman]

I have the same fuzzy eye syndrome so I understand. Yes, it seems an aperture rear sight is easier to make good hits with. I love my 1903 Springfield but shoot better with the M1917. That really irks me:).

Dutch

[alamogunr]

Williams makes a rear peep sight that replaces the original sight. It is adjustable for windage and elevation. You can return to the original configuration in a matter of minutes. I have one on my M96 and like it a lot.

Do you happen to know which of the Williams sights it is. I've looked at their web site and they list a Foolproof for "military mausers" and a cheaper 5D sight for mausers and Jap, enfield, springfield and 2 Daisy models. If it fits all those, I'm not too sure how it would mount.

I just acquired a M96 in excellent condition but my eyes aren't up to shooting with the open sights. I don't want to put a scope on it if I don't have to.

John

[Calamity Jake]

Order a Merit optical attachment for your shooting glasses from Brownells it has a suction cup to hold it to your glasses and is adjustable for position and apature size, they work real well for us fuzzy eyed shooters, you will be amazed at how well it will clears up the sights, both front and rear.

[Dutchman]

I just acquired a M96 in excellent condition but my eyes aren't up to shooting with the open sights. I don't want to put a scope on it if I don't have to.


It took a little getting use to a long eye relief scope but what it allowed my eyes to see and my bullets to hit made up for the getting use to it. Its out of the way compared to conventional receiver mounted scopes and you can install one without destroying the collectability of a vintage military rifle. S&K makes a pretty solid and decent overall LER mount. Its a little too high, IMO, but is otherwise well liked.
This mount below is one I made in my home shop.
http://images16.fotki.com/v273/photos/2/28344/2479279/k1-vi.jpg

http://images16.fotki.com/v278/photos/2/28344/2479279/k2-vi.jpg

50 yds isn't exactly Olympic range but this is 5 shots with the 140 gr Loverin and 10.5 grs Unique and the above rifle. And this rifle has a worn barrel. This scope is an older Tasco 3x28 and its very light and small. I now have a NcStar 4x32 on this rifle and like it alot though being a steel tube its much heavier.

http://images30.fotki.com/v51/photos/2/28344/5538481/oct06-vi.jpg

The S&K is noticeably higher but is a solid and effective mount and I'll continue to recommend it when asked about LER mounts for the m/96.
http://images26.fotki.com/v885/photos/2/28344/2479279/1915CGM96_scout2vi-vi.jpg

Dutch

[mtgrs737]

Well guys I got out the soft hammer and punch and tapped the front sight over a tad tonight as the wind has settled down for a change. I think that it may be what it takes if I am not to add a reciever sight for now. My 4 shots at 100 yards all conected with the falling steel plates I was shooting at. I will need more shots at the paper to determine the groupings and how much more tinkering I will need to do. But so far so good. I am shooting the Lovern style 130gr. bullet cast out of WW's with about 20% linotype and Lars BAC lube over 10.8 grs of Unique. I may take a look at the Merit eye disc thing to sharpen the image. I will check in when I know more.

[Maven]

mtgrs737, I had the same problem, but with my Mod. 1909 Arg. Mau. I tried drifting the front sight, which worked, but was aesthetically unappealing. I also didn't care for the barleycorn/ inverted V front sight. I replaced it with one from a Swe. Mau. courtesy of KCSO and added a Lyman #57 receiver sight. Shooting it is now a pleasure and the receiver sight certainly has helped my aging eyes.

[airdale]

I have a 96 that came drilled for a rear peep sight by the swedes. I see a photo of such a sight on this thread. Question is where can one get such a sight?

[Dutchman]

I have a 96 that came drilled for a rear peep sight by the swedes. I see a photo of such a sight on this thread. Question is where can one get such a sight?

There is no ready source for such sights in the U.S. other than buying from an individual. Ebay is the place to keep an eye on as they show up from Sweden often.

These diopter sights are not currently coming into the U.S. because of the poor exchange rate for dollars to euros (or kroners). There is also a great deal of competition for used diopter sights.

Beware that not all the screw patterns are the same. And the GF diopter requires a relief cut on the receiver for the windage.

With a diopter you'll need a taller front sight or a target type front sight. Called a korn ring in Sweden. This is a touchy area for a novice to get into as you can waste money if you don't know what you're doing.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/targetsights.html


Dutch

[airdale]

Thanks for the info. I may have a chance to make a contact or two in Sweden. As far as installtion issues,etc., should not be a problem. I've been scratching around on this kind of stuff since the late 50's. Originally purchased it as an intended base ( for the 6.5 Swede cartridge ) for use in a big bore/nat'l match when the rifles were dirt cheap. There was a lot of talk around at the time that the 6.5 Swede was super accurate. Idea was to throw away every thing but the barrel and action and build a rifle from there, even replace barrel if neccessary. I never got around to doing that and the rifle has sat for years. Otherwise I generally used mod 98's to build my rifles because its the easiest action to barrel and set up, and they handle the 308 win length very well. The M98's were also common as dirt and were purchased for the actions alone. I liked the ones made by Mauser between the wars for the South Americans. The last time I had my hands on the 96 (years ago) was to try it out with ball ammo from o'seas. It put all 5 into about 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds with the ladder sight notch. I recently got into cast in a 1903 and Krag, and re-discovered the 96 at that time. Since it was originally drilled for the sights by the Swedes' just leads me to ask the source of the sight to basically complete the rifle as issued or used. I will probably never shoot cast in it.