Savage model 1899

[jugulater]

i was out casting in the back yard this morning when my cell phone started to ring, so i set down my mould and turned the heat down on the pot and answered the call, it was my uncle and he said that he had decided to clean out the gun safe in his hunting cabin. he had found a Savage rifle that had belonged to my grandfather and wanted to know if i wanted it. i said yes.

The gun is a Model 1899 in .303 Savage and it shows a fair amount of usage wear. the barrel shines and the action is smooth and tight. the only issue is the caliber. ive got brass and dies on the way and ive already slugged the barrel but i dont have an idea where to get started with cast boolits in the .303 savage. i understand that the 303 savage is close to the 30-30, but will a cast boolit designed for the 30-30 shoot as good in the 303? most of my experience with cast boolits is with old military guns and plinking loads so im in unknown waters.

any advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated

177489
177490

[too many things]

its the same as the 30-30 but was made to use pointed bullets. so any 308 will work ,but I would stay at less than 150 gr or you will have a lot of drop

[pietro]

.

I stumbled across a lightweight 1914 Model 1899H in .303 this past Spring, and it has the same power/trajectory as my .30-30 (with the same boolit weights).

Hornady is making 150gr loads, but I can only wish that the old factory 190gr loads were still available.

The 190gr .303 loads made a LOT of meat, when it was 1st introduced, touted by Arthur Savage as great for ANY kind of Big Game.

http://i.imgur.com/B5v1LLLl.jpg


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[catskinner]

I have 3 99 Savages chambered for the 303 Savage. I use 30-30 data. Shoot nothing but cast bullets in mine mostly the Old West 311-190 which weighs 195 gr. in wheelweight alloy.

[historicfirearms]

I know where there is a takedown version in 303 savage. It's in good condition with a newer Marbles tang sight. The guy wants $600 for it. I'm not sure if thats a good deal or not, but seeing you people love them has me tempted.

[ajjohns]

Nice, that baby screams "I want a receiver sight!" You will enjoy that rifle.

[jugulater]

it is already drilled and tapped for a tang sight and i've already given a older gunsmith i know a call and asked him if he had any, he said he thought he did but that he wouldn't be able to look for it till after he got home. hopefully he will call me later with good news!

[Cheshire Dave]

You can't shoot cast in the .303. Just send the rifle to me and I will safely dispose of it for you.

[gnoahhh]

Tang sights are always to be found on ebay. The newer Marble's and Lyman tang sights don't hold a candle to the old ones, but they work, mostly.

As for load data, use .30-30 data. Your bore is nominally .308 groove diameter, no matter what the old wive's tales say about them being .311. Protocols for sizing cast bullets apply to the .303 Savage as equally as all others. (Measure your throat and size them .0005 to .001 under that, match the expander ball in your die to your selected bullet diameter, and you're good to go.) I prefer heavy bullets in both .30-30 and .303 for hunting. My favorite is a 190 grain FN- it's a killer-diller.

That bullet and 28gr. 3031 ended this bad boy's time on earth:

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/gnoahhh/Deerhunting2011006.jpg (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/gnoahhh/media/Deerhunting2011006.jpg.html)

[Texas by God]

The .303 was loaded originally with a .311" 190 gr rn scooting through a .308" bore to increase pressure/power. Arthur Savage's idea I'm told. Enjoy that beautiful rifle Jugulater. Best, Thomas.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The .303 was loaded originally with a .311" 190 gr rn scooting through a .308" bore to increase pressure/power. Arthur Savage's idea I'm told. Enjoy that beautiful rifle Jugulater. Best, Thomas.

True I believe, but that was at a time when there was far less choice of powders to do it with. It looks an excellent rifle. Perhaps I could have a macro made for these boards, to say the old ones look far better than those made in recent years. Most "improvements" are really just production economies, but when was it ever truer than with the 99 losing its rotary magazine?

[HawkEyeEarl]

I bought a 100 303 savage brass from midway usa recently and have been loading and shooting my 303 savage.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've got a very light thin-barreled .303 Savage I shoot a lot; mostly a 311041 sized .310 (.309 is OK) with 18g H4198 in Prvi brass. Has a Redfield receiver sight, normally 2inch groups at 100 yards are attainable. I like the Savage 99's, .303 are more available and less costly than the .30-30's in the Savage 99. Just a little different also. Any loading data for the .30-30 is valid for the .303 Savage. Accuracy is usually better than the Winchester 94 and as good as the Marlins in .30-30. Stocking up on brass. It was not available for many years, who knows when that will happen again. No crimp is necessary, no concern for bullet shape, it is one of the best, if not THE BEST lever gun cast bullet cartridge, the .444, and .45-70 are at a different level.

[jugulater]

i came by a 20 round box of Jamison prowler grade ammunition this morning while i was out buying targets for a range trip i made today. the Jamison stuff was loaded with a 150 Grn bullet and shot high but with a proper hold i was able to hit anything i could see on the 100 yard berm.

the Savage 99 action is exceptionally smooth and my 1899 locked up tight and showed no signs of having any issues.

well, there was one iusse, after 20 rounds of mediumly hot ammo the cresent buttplate had left its mark on my shoulder..

i imagine im going to have loads of fun with this old Savage!

[gnoahhh]

Yay!

As for the crescent buttplate biting your shoulder: we moderns have forgotten how to use those things, IMO. They were meant to contact the shoulder further outboard of the pocket "sweet spot" we use to tuck our buttplates/butt pads into.

[Texas by God]

Yay!

As for the crescent buttplate biting your shoulder: we moderns have forgotten how to use those things, IMO. They were meant to contact the shoulder further outboard of the pocket "sweet spot" we use to tuck our buttplates/butt pads into.
NOW you tell us? Best, Thomas.

[northmn]

As a builder I saw a lot of plains style muzzle loaders made with buttplates that were practically impossible to shoot off the shoulder as they had a very sharp top piece. Forearm use as Texas mentions. For some reasons that was the style for some time. Teddy Roosevelt's 405 was said to be a custom job with a shotgun buttplate. They had a reputation for fierce recoil with the crescent butt plate.
I used a Lee 185 bullet made for the 303 British and sized to 310 for a 30-30. It worked very well for deer as I sized it with a flat point punch. Loaded it close to 303S ballistics. One of the best loads I ever used in the 30-30.

DP

[farmbif]

marbles may still make a tang sight for the 99. there is a photo of one on the brochure that downloads in their website, saw it yesterday

[nekshot]

I found my old 99 loves speer 130 jacketed with a lot of h335 and it will shoot in a inch at 100 yards if you do your part and don't let that long tube heat up! You can have a lot of fun with those long tubes and phart loads. From mild to wild my 303 does it all well.

[rintinglen]

Marble's does make a tang sight for the 1899, Midway has them for about 125.00 with screw set. (note, Marbles sells the screws separate from the sight.)
Mine has an old Lyman tang sight, but I am thinking of getting a Williams Foolproof to replace it. The Williams is a lot less money.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

As a builder I saw a lot of plains style muzzle loaders made with buttplates that were practically impossible to shoot off the shoulder as they had a very sharp top piece. Forearm use as Texas mentions. For some reasons that was the style for some time. Teddy Roosevelt's 405 was said to be a custom job with a shotgun buttplate. They had a reputation for fierce recoil with the crescent butt plate.
I used a Lee 185 bullet made for the 303 British and sized to 310 for a 30-30. It worked very well for deer as I sized it with a flat point punch. Loaded it close to 303S ballistics. One of the best loads I ever used in the 30-30.

DP

Roosevelt's 895 was indeed a custom job, and much wrangling he had to get it made the way he wanted. But the shotgun butt needn't have been. As early as 1899, at least, it was available off the peg in the Fancy Sporting Rifle model of the 1895. While it is hard to judge from catalogue engravings, it looks like the crescent buttplate of the standard 1895 may be slightly less curved than that of the 1886, which could also be a kicker with some of its cartridges. My 1886 has the shotgun buttplate, and it is hard to find a good reason to prefer the crescent. It isn't listed in their extras list for any of their standard models, so maybe the intention was to make the customer spring for the Fancy Sporting model.

Far be it from me to criticize Track of the Wolf's excellent range of investment castings. I bet they could make more money selling telephone ring tones or the secret of losing 30lb. in a month. But some of their crescent buttplates, I think mainly for muzzle-loaders, strike me as rather pointless instruments of torture. The upper arm for the butt, and a perch-belly stock to be supported against the chest, makes a great deal of sense for the highly developed sport of Scheutzen shooting, standing and at a clearly seen mark. But it seems quite different for a hunting long rifle, with which you take any position you can. I know muzzle-loading rifles were still made after the Scheutzen discipline was under way, but I don't know whether those buttplates came in late enough to be copying it, like road cars with air scoops on the hood.

[gnoahhh]

Unless Marble's has gotten their act together in the last couple years regarding their tang sights, I would steer clear of them. They were/are pretty flimsy affairs compared to their old ones. For the same kind of money you can buy a vintage Lyman or Marbles tang sight on ebay today, and have something of value.

[northmn]

Roosevelt's 895 was indeed a custom job, and much wrangling he had to get it made the way he wanted. But the shotgun butt needn't have been. As early as 1899, at least, it was available off the peg in the Fancy Sporting Rifle model of the 1895. While it is hard to judge from catalogue engravings, it looks like the crescent buttplate of the standard 1895 may be slightly less curved than that of the 1886, which could also be a kicker with some of its cartridges. My 1886 has the shotgun buttplate, and it is hard to find a good reason to prefer the crescent. It isn't listed in their extras list for any of their standard models, so maybe the intention was to make the customer spring for the Fancy Sporting model.

Far be it from me to criticize Track of the Wolf's excellent range of investment castings. I bet they could make more money selling telephone ring tones or the secret of losing 30lb. in a month. But some of their crescent buttplates, I think mainly for muzzle-loaders, strike me as rather pointless instruments of torture. The upper arm for the butt, and a perch-belly stock to be supported against the chest, makes a great deal of sense for the highly developed sport of Scheutzen shooting, standing and at a clearly seen mark. But it seems quite different for a hunting long rifle, with which you take any position you can. I know muzzle-loading rifles were still made after the Scheutzen discipline was under way, but I don't know whether those buttplates came in late enough to be copying it, like road cars with air scoops on the hood.\
Track of the Wolf sells reproductions of actual parts used on original rifles. The butt plates you are referring to were used on plains rifles made in the later part of the ML periods. They were not made to be shot off the shoulder but nestled off the arm just off the arm pit. Note they do not have Schuetzen design where there is a protuberance on the bottom to assist in holding up the heavy weight. I suspect being plains rifles shooting of horseback as in running buffalo may have had something to do with the design. Recoil of these rifles as loaded was nothing as compared to what we put up with today, especially when you consider they had very very heavy barrels.

DP

[jugulater]

now that i know how to properly use a crescent buttplate i have no reason to complain about recoil next time i shoot my Savage....

hopefully my dies and brass will be here today!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

now that i know how to properly use a crescent buttplate i have no reason to complain about recoil next time i shoot my Savage....



You do if you need to shoot it from the prone position, although I think sitting is about the best hunting position if you have time, anywhere with long grass or ondulating ground.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

\
Track of the Wolf sells reproductions of actual parts used on original rifles.

Yes, I know they are taken from originals. The process of taking a mould from an original, then a wax copy and finally steel or brass involves several percent of shrinkage - no big issue for most things, but of some significance in the very small crescent buttplates. I actually have one of those which I decided against using, but it will be handy for something, someday.

Here is another website which is good for castings, particularly hammers etc. They brought my Charles Daly Prussian 10ga back to life, and I was able to recommend them to an American correspondent for a new hammer for his Calisher and Terry capping breech-loader. You can't get much more apparently hopeless than that.

https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/

https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/

[Texas by God]

You do if you need to shoot it from the prone position, although I think sitting is about the best hunting position if you have time, anywhere with long grass or ondulating ground.
I agree with this. So did John Nosler. Sitting down to shoot game is very effective and unlike shooting sticks your **** is attached already!

[458mag]

178083And they sure do engrave real nice to. One of my favorites.

[reivertom]

I'm used to shooting my 1850s sporting rifle with a severe crescent butt plate. I just fit it around the very top of my arm and the bottom point goes a bit into my armpit. I actually like the way it feels and it fits me perfectly. Most guys today try to stick it up to their shoulder and it is like hugging a big pickle fork. I don't have any hard recoiling modern type rifles with a crescent though......that might be another matter altogether.

[Paul_R]

I think it's worth noting that crescent butts came about in the black powder days. Placed properly on my shoulder and in the right shooting position (anything but sitting at a bench or prone), I can shoot everything from 38-55 to 45-90 all day long with a crescent butt at those (BP) pressures. Even modern loadings are tolerable for a few shots if the butt's placed properly and you're in a position where you can roll with the shot.


Marble's does make a tang sight for the 1899, Midway has them for about 125.00 with screw set. (note, Marbles sells the screws separate from the sight.)
Mine has an old Lyman tang sight, but I am thinking of getting a Williams Foolproof to replace it. The Williams is a lot less money.

Have you seen what those old Lyman sights are going for on ebay? :eek:

[gnoahhh]

Yeah, they're a little salty, but what isn't anymore? $125-150 for runofthemill examples, but stack that against what a nice scope setup will cost you.