1873 trapdoor carbine with 32.6 inch barrel

[HawkEyeEarl]

1873 trapdoor carbine with 32.6 inch barrel :)

http://www.duckpondconsulting.com/trapdoor_5393.JPG

Other than the stock being cut down, I believe it is an original 1881 rifle. what do you think?
What's left of the stock may be orginal....

rear sight side is stepped and marked 1 2 3 4
rear ladder right side is marked 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

I like it better now that I have cleaned than when I bought it the other day.
Bore looks better now then when I first peered down it.

I have 405 and 500 grain slugs.
what brands of black powder and substitutes do you use with either the 405 or the 500 grain slug in your trapdoor?
I would like to hear loads you use.

[John Boy]

* Pick your load off the data chart for black powder... http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/Cartridge-Rifle.pdf
* For subs (there are many) read the vendors loading data
Black powder - Swiss Fg or 1.5Fg

[M-Tecs]

My favorite TD fun load is 10 grains if Unique under a 385 or 405 cast. No filler required.

[bigted]

take your boolit and go backwards to find the begin charge of genuine black powder.

measure your boolit length that will fit inside the case from the neck mouth/case mouth to the base of your boolit. this is the amount you will have from the case mouth to the boolit base ... where you can fill with powder with no compression

after getting this measurement ... take a stem of some kind ... either a dial indicator or wooden dowel ect ... and fill the case to just touch this measurement with black powder ... either Old E or Swiss in 1.5 or 2F real black powder {not being a smarty as all aftermarket powders to replace real BP have different needs}. having filled and dumped into your powder scale a couple different times to determine the grainage to begin with ... use this amount of grains to begin reloading your cases.

now prime your clean and dry cases with a good large rifle primer and dump a weighed amount of your powder that you have arrived at with your particular boolit ... seat your boolit in the case and straighten the slight flair in the case till the rounds will chamber with ease in your rifle.

now go have a hoot with your first reloaded blackpowder loads. now comes the life time of experimenting and changing only 1 thing at a time till you muster the very best accuracy you can get outta your rifle.

play with;

powder charges and pre-compressed amounts
kinds of powder and F sizes
different boolit designs
primer kinds and with or without the primer wad
how much neck tension
lube kinds and recipes
nose shapes on the boolits

on n on and on n on. this is the greatest habitual consarned and befuddled FUN you can possibly do with your britches on. have fun and report back with your fun, success, and failures as well as we all been there or gonna be before long.

[bigted]

forgot to mention to grow some tough skin as some fellers seem to like to pick at it till just a small amount of blood oozes and the yelling begins ... not done for harm ... just some cant "remember when" they asked the same dang questions and cant seem to see "why you need to ask a question that has been asked n answered" so many times. dont let em bug ya as them that say these things are truly worth the effort to pick their bug infested minds,., 8-)8-)8-)

go up a few postings to the "blackpowder BPCR section and there be fellers there that truly "been there n done that".

[Wayne Smith]

If you are not aware of it, BP needs a full case of powder. This is established as BigTed described. It changes with boolit seating, and you should expect some level of compression of the powder.

[HawkEyeEarl]

I do not have F powder.
I have FF powder and pyrodex RS.
Both of these are ok?

I will fill the case for the 405 and the 500 grain bullets.
I have always wondered about just filling the case as the bullets get heavier which is why was asking.

I may have some at 520 grains or so.

I appreciate this help.

[HawkEyeEarl]

I loaded 35 rounds of 420 grain slugs over 60+ grains lightly compressed pyrodex RS.
I test fired 4 of them as I started loading them for function of the loads and of the rifle.
I look forward to trying them at longer range and wells as some other powders

[Scharfschuetze]

It's hard to say for sure from the photo in the OP, but I think that your rear sight is an 1873 carbine sight, given the steps and the range graduations. 1873 rifle sights go to 11 on the ladder. Carbine sights to 12. The longer range on the carbine sight is due to the shorter sight radius which gives more positive angle to the sighting plane.

The front sight looks to be the original height which is best for black powder loads. A lot of Trapdoors used with smokeless get a taller front sight as the rifles shoot high with smokeless, even at the same velocities as BP.

The stock is the "short wrist" stock that was part of the updates of 1879.

I really enjoy shooting Trapdoors and find them more fun than most rifles, particularly at long range.

Good luck with this one!

[HawkEyeEarl]

here are close up pictures of the rear sight
from what I read online I thought the rear sight would be original for an 1881 trapdoor - serial 1534xx.
what do yall think ?

I thought the front sight was original height also as you did also.

I was happy to come across this rifle.

I would like an original stock but it would have cost more more if it had had it.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good photos Hawkeye.

I believe that by 1881, the rifle would have come equipped with one of the 1879 sights. There were a couple different ones, but they all were similar. The big change in sights came in 1884 with the adoption of the Buffington sight. It was used on the Models 1884 and 1888. I've always preferred the earlier sights for ease of use.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/prodimages/giant/w15153.jpg

Don't worry about that stock. Shoot it and have some fun!

[tbx-4]

So what sight is that on HawKEyes T/D? I kinda like it. Don't have windage adjust it appears tho.

HawkEye, I have a spare 1879 carbine sight like Scharf posted above that I'd be willing to trade for that one on your T/D, if you're interested.

[HawkEyeEarl]

tbx-4
I am not sure what the sight is.
I have seen sights like it but I am not sure exactly when they were used.
My short shots the other day shot close to aim.
I am going to try to get it out this weekend for some shooting up to 100 yards to see how these sights shoot.
:)

[John in PA]

It is the model 1873 rifle sight. see here: http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/TrapdoorSights.html

[HawkEyeEarl]

John, I believe I see mine there in the 1873 sight pictures.
That is what yall have been saying all along.

Why were they likely changed? That is assuming they were changed to improve aiming.

To make it shoot better for hunting or target shooting today?

Or would the sights on they used by 1881 shoot just as well for getting point on aim today?

[HawkEyeEarl]

tbx-4
I am interested in trading sights now that I know you have the original sight for my gun and that I have an earlier sight.
However, as I looked on how to remove, I discovered what are called slotless screws on these sights.
If some one exchanged sights on this gun they must put the slotless screws back in.
Is there some handy inexpensive tool to remove and replace these slotless screws without messing them up?

[tbx-4]

HawkEye,
After re-reading this thread I realized you don't have a "carbine". You have an infantry rifle with cut down stock, hence the 32 5/8" barrel. The carbine model had a 22" barrel. Putting a carbine rear sight on a full length barrel ain't gonna work out too well. You need an 1879 rear sight with an R on it for rifle.

Why does your 1881 T/D have an 1873 rear sight?... A lot of old guns have been put together from spare parts... Whatever was available on the surplus market. Read up on Bannerman's Special... and they weren't the only ones doing this, just one of the largest at the time.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/8/20/bannermans-special/

[HawkEyeEarl]

After looking closer tonight I see these slotless screws are already buggered up.
You can see the roughed up screw heads in the pictures.

Someone changed the sight for some reason using pliers.
I can remove one screw with my fingers, it was already loose.

I will look of for sights for 1879 rifle and new screws when I get a chance.

I appreciate the help.