30-06 practical velocity

[Angus]

What velocities are practical for hunting whitetail deer and black bear with a Lee CTL-160-312 or C-185-312 from a 30-06? I'm not looking to skimp, I am just looking for what could practically, reliably drop either species inside of say, 50 yards reliably. Provided I put it in the boiler room, of course.

[MT Gianni]

I would use neither as I believe a flat point is necessary in the 30 caliber. 1800 fps with a good flat point bullet is good IME up to 125 yards and I believe it will be out to at least 175. The boolits mentioned may kill but with a rn or very small meplate it would probably take a while and surely not react to a hit as one with a larger meplate would. I would be ok hunting with a good FP boolit with a starting velocity as low as 1600 fps if shots were limited to under 75 yards, though at that range I would prefer a 44 handgun cartridge in a rifle or revolver. Gianni

[35remington]

Provided the bullets are cast of ACWW's, they will expand on impact down to around 1350 fps. I would go with the heavier weight in 30 caliber.

For your average deer and blackies they would be okay, but I'd go to a larger caliber for larger critters.

[Angus]

Of Lee's offerings, what is a good performer with a flat point? I generally use WCWWs but I could air cool them if needed. Also, would a shallow hollow-point have any benefit, or is it better just to stick with meplats?

[Larry Gibson]

For Lee moulds the C309-170-F will be a good performer in your '06. Cast of WWs and AC'd or as I prefer, WW/lead at 50/50 ratio and ACd, will do quite nicely for hunting out to 150 yards. Size as cast and use a good lube like Javelina or Lars45s BAC or one of his other lubes (all are good) with a medium to burning slow powder, 4895 works really well. If you clean the barrel between 5 shot groups (you shouldn't shoot more than that hunting anyway) you'll find you can probably push the velocity up to 2100-2200 fps and maintain 2-3 MOA. More than 5 shots with that alloy at that velocity will more than like open the group. That is quite sufficient for hunting out to 150 yards. That also equals the 30-30 factory loads in power. The 30-30 has killed more deer and other critters than we can count. HPing does have a benifit if, I use the forster tool on several moulds but have a 31141HP that I mostly use. The lee bullet is similar to the Lyman and should serve you well.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

A flat point works very well on deer. I have used different nose punches to create a flat point on a normally round nosed bullet. Ones like the 311466 and 311467 are easy to do, just do NOT bend the bullet by coming down to hard when you size it.I would imagine Lee's rn's could be done this way also. I have had trouble keeping the hole on center when using a drill to hollow point bullets. If you can get a lathe operator to spin the bullet on a drill bit ,you'll have a more centered hole. IMO! As for spped, I have no trouble getting 2000 FPS from ACWW and felix lube or LLA with gas checks. Harder alloys with large meplats can be a lot faster and still deadly. No matter WHAT velocity you settle on , the bullet MUST be put in the correct place to work.

[Angus]

I'm sizing with a Lee sizer, so no nose punches for me. I just can't justify spending the money on a lubrisizer when I can get a lube & size kit for $12, with a bottle of LLA. If I find it necessary I'll be pan lubing, sizing, then tumble lubing to bump my potential velocities. And how about Ranch Dog's 30cal sized to .309? Thanks for the info guys.

[runfiverun]

the ranch dog mold would be a good one, you could just file a little flat on the boolit..
and 1950 to 2000 will get you good accuracy and flat enough to get 150 easily..

[jhalcott]

Angus, take a sized bullet at what ever velocity you decide on and shoot it a a bale of wet newspaper or several gallon milk jugs filled with water. Then use another bullet from the same batch BUT with a flattened nose. Same load ,same distance,etc.. You will be amazed at the terminal difference the flat makes. You MAY NOT get the penetration of the round nose,but the "wound channel" will be MUCH larger. I managed complete penetration on several deer with a 20 inch or more travel through flesh and bone using the 311041 in a 30-30. Bullets were acww about 13 BHN distances were 100 yards and under.

[leadman]

I have been doing some experimenting with the 30-06 lately. My best load so far is with 311299 cast of lino and sized .311". I am pushing these past 2,500fps with 2 to 3" groups for 3 shots at 100 yards.

I am going to cast a softnose on these and see what happens to the accuracy. If this is still good I will then check penetration and expansion.

I am also thinking about lubing the nose with LLA to see if the accuracy can be maintained for more shots.

There is certainly some stout recoil pushing those 195 gr. boolits to that speed!

[35remington]

".....You will be amazed at the terminal difference the flat makes."

I wasn't all that impressed by the flat given the distances/velocities possible in loads that nearly duplicate standard velocities in traditional calibers like .30-30 and 35 Remington.

Provided the alloy is soft enough to expand, the flat isn't all that critical save for marginal velocities on the threshold of expansion or ranges pushing the limit of load and game.

The harder the bullet, the more help the flat becomes in making the wound channel. However, for ~2000 fps muzzle velocities, wheelweight alloys and reasonable deer hunting at woods ranges, it isn't all that critical. With hardcast or lower velocities the flat helps greatly.

Just a contrasting opinion IME. The "flat nose holy grail" requirement for "success" on game must be considered in light of the hardness/malleability of the alloy used and the velocities we're talking about. What's desirable for lower velocity pistol rounds doesn't automatically translate to rifles and smaller caliber, higher velocity bullets.

At 13 BHN and ~2000 fps, lead bullets will expand regardless of nose shape on deer at 100 yards and under.

[GabbyM]

If you are going bear hunting with a 30-06 caliber. Then if you are going to buy a Lee mould. For your sore backs sake get the 200 grain weight C309-200-R. You don't want that bear to run off 250 yards. But it probably will even with the 200 grainer.

Having guided a bear hunt. I assure you a 200 grain boolit is not to much lead for those critters. What will fail miserably is a J-word soft point designed for deer. That thick hide atop four inches of fat then those huge ribs demand the use of a formidable boolit. Made of good alloy.

[Junior1942]

The meplat on the Ranch Dog bullet looks twice the size of the meplat on the Lee bullet. I'd go with the Ranch Dog bullet lubed with LLA and at 1850 - 1900 fps. You could shoot it all day without needing to clean the barrel. In fact, limit the barrel to LLA lubed cast bullets at 1900 fps or less and never clean the barrel again. Unless the bore gets wet for some reason.

[Angus]

Junior, how did you know what I shoot out of rifle?

[longbow]

leadman:

I used to cast soft noses for a .45-70 in the Lyman 500 gr. round nose mould (457125 if memory serves). It didn't seem to affect accuracy at all and expanded very well in expansion tests. Never did use it for hunting though.

As for lube on the nose of the 311299, LLA will probably be okay as it is thin - at least if you don't use multiple coats. I tried adding extra lube to the noses of 314299's for my .303 and found that the groups opened up bunches. What had been a good load with regular lubing wasn't anymore.

I scraped the extra lube of the nose and accuracy returned. These were dip lubed though so thicker than typical LLA - maybe causing boolit "float"?

Longbow

[missionary5155]

I have been doing some experimenting with the 30-06 lately. My best load so far is with 311299 cast of lino and sized .311". I am pushing these past 2,500fps with 2 to 3" groups for 3 shots at 100 yards.

I am going to cast a softnose on these and see what happens to the accuracy. If this is still good I will then check penetration and expansion

Good morning
If you are going to try putting a soft nose on a hard shank at over 1600 fps then be sure the two metals mix... get the mold good and hot and both metals... if they do not mix they will seperate even on a racoon... does a great job on a racoon ! I have soft pointed 41 mag and 45 caliber rifle and they will seperate unless they are mixed metals at junction. But will they ever smack and penetrate. :)

[Moose]

When I was 11 my Pa gave me a thirtythirty along with a tong tool, dies and an ideal 311291. Still got the mold, and still use it. Wish I had the old rifle. Haven't been 11 for about 60 years but that 311291 still kills deer. Pa and me used 30 grains of 3031 in the 30-30, just to make it easy to remember. Used lead pipe as source, sometimes with gas chk, mostly not. Didn't size em in that case, just smeared lube (ideal tube lube) and loaded them up. Do not remember any leading. If you hit em right, they assume the prone. Never shot beyond say 80 yards - Pa always felt that if you couldn't see 'em blink, you weren't close enough. Good luck and close in. Moose