SAFETY ALERT!! ........Maxxtech 9mm Brass

[klcarroll]

Be alert for 9mm brass carrying the "MAXXTECH" headstamp!!

This boxer primed brass is apparently Russian production, and from the outside looks like good, reloadable brass.

The problem is on the inside: .....These cases feature a .035" thick internal sleeve that serves to both reinforce the case in the head area, and to prevent bullet set-back. This sleeve comes to within .210" of the case mouth, and is easily seen during a case inspection.

This sleeve constitutes a safety issue because it SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the available case volume: .....And as a consequence, ANY powder charge that would duplicate a factory load in a normal case will produce perilously high pressures in the MAXXTECH brass.

I am sure that with a proper powder charge, this brass might be a great idea: .....But none of the published 9mm data should be used in this brass!

Please watch for this stuff!!

KLC

[OS OK]

Can you give us a pic looking inside and the headstamp?

Thanks for the warning, I was not aware.

charlie

[nagantguy]

thanks for this warning, you are the second person to mention this to me, guess someone picked up a bunch off the ground at the shooting club. noticed something was "wrong with them" and did some case volume tests, said same as you, full load of about anything =kaboom

[Tackleberry41]

Being Russian made they would just give you a blank look if you mention 'reloading' a fired case. So doubt it ever occurred to them that the internal volume being different was even an issue. They designed it to work with the exact bullet they loaded it with, and prevent bullet set back. Only crazy Ameicanskie would pick them up off the ground and try to reuse them. Actual brass cases are sort of a new thing to them.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, I will have to remember that. My Glock 42 loves the Maxxtech .380 ammo. As far as I can tell these are all of conventional construction and it's only $12.00 a box locally.

[Ola]

Please someone, post a picture of that case!

I have not sen any MAXXTECH cases here, but it'd interesting to see one. It might have an application of it's own: maybe a true "cheapskate" load could be developed by a cautious loader?

[NoAngel]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/suba-saab/Springfield%20Armory%20Range%20Officer%201911%209m m/Tul%20AmmoMaxx/913a7711-2100-4069-a16a-37cdaa9275e3_zpsf8gxdyj7.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/suba-saab/media/Springfield%20Armory%20Range%20Officer%201911%209m m/Tul%20AmmoMaxx/913a7711-2100-4069-a16a-37cdaa9275e3_zpsf8gxdyj7.jpg.html)

[Ola]

Well that was fast!! :)

[kayala]

I've seen similarly looking cases with headstamp "Ammoload". I usually just toss them.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've also seen this stuff headstamped as 'AmmoLoad'. A shooting buddy got some mixed in with some bulk range pick-up he bought at a gunshow. He didn't notice the sleeve but, fortunately, when he tried to reload it, he was loading subsonic with 147 gr. RNs that had to be seated deeper than the factory 124 gr. causing bulged cases that wouldn't chamber in his SIG.

Bill

[Ola]

It is thicker I'd have thought.

Looks like the shroud is not part of the original case? ( I try to explain: an extra brass cup at the bottom of the case)

If it IS part of the case, how in earth did they manufacture that? That pulling of the cases usually doesn't produce sharp edges.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting! Thanks for the "heads up".

[klcarroll]

Thanks to NoAngel for the photo!

I haven't sectioned one of these cases yet, but it looks to me like it is a pressed in sleeve that is inserted after the case has been extruded to final length.

From a factory point of view it's a rather brilliant design for three reasons:

1) It eliminates the tendency for the case to bulge in the head area when shot in a semi-supported chamber.

2) It ABSOLUTELY prevents bullet setback.

3) The reduced chamber volume allows the use of a smaller charge of fast burning powder to produce SAAMI pressures. (Less powder = Lower Production Cost!)

I would not hesitate to use this factory ammo. They obviously know what powder to use, and how much of it to pour in there!

The problem is with reloading: ....A careful reloader could work up a load that would let him or her take advantage of the features this case offers. The problem is very similar to working up a load for a brand new "wildcat": ....You are going into unexplored territory, and extreme caution is mandatory!

[ReloaderFred]

To a lesser degree, you'll find the same thing in Blazer, Federal and Speer new production .380 acp brass. The step isn't as pronounced, but it's still there, and is for the same purpose. AmmoLoad also produced a case similar in construction, with a larger step in 9x19 than the previously mentioned .380 acp brass.

The AmmoLoad cases are one piece construction, and I'm saving all I can find for an experiment with using them for swaging bullets that will resist expansion as much as regular 9x19 cases do when swaged into .40 and .41 caliber bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[NoAngel]

If they still made Norma R1, this case would be a good candidate.....Dang if I would wanna work up the load though.

[Multigunner]

The original method for preventing bullets being pushed back into the case is still the best. They just rolled a cannelure into the case body behind the bullet.
I've seen cases made this way for sale a few years back.
The original Colt 1911 Manual illustrates this and explains it. Old Remingtom 9mm ammo I have in my collection has this cannelure.
Bullets pushed back into the case was a proven cause of a number of Glock Kabooms , and can cause the same in most autoloaders..

Swaging a piece of tubing into a cartridge case was a standard method for reducing case capacity for gallery practice loads in black powder cartridge days. Some simply used a piece of cardboard tube for the purpose.
I suppose these low capacity cases could be used in making up gallery loads or wax bullet loads.
.

[FergusonTO35]

I have successfully reloaded new Blazer Brass, Speer, and Federal .380 brass. Never noticed it being any different than other brands.

[ReloaderFred]

As long as the bullet you're loading into the newer Blazer, et. al. brass is the same length as the factory bullet was, you'll never notice the difference, unless you shorten the OAL. Look inside those cases and you'll see a slight step about half way down the case wall.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[klcarroll]

As long as the bullet you're loading into the newer Blazer, et. al. brass is the same length as the factory bullet was, you'll never notice the difference, unless you shorten the OAL. Look inside those cases and you'll see a slight step about half way down the case wall.

Hope this helps.

Fred


Fred

In the interest of clarity, I must point out that the 9mm Parabellum is a case with a very small volume to begin with.

ANY case design change that reduces this volume will leave the door open for MAJOR pressure excursions!

ANY sleeved case, (...or any other modification that reduces volume) renders the published 9mm reloading date invalid.

I'm not being argumentative: ......I simply want to prevent anyone here from experiencing a "surprise"!

[Mytmousemalibu]

Also to AVOID brass made in this same manner besides Maxxtech, toss these headstamps into the scrap bin too.... Ammoload, IMT, FM marked brass, it is all made in this way with the sharp step in the casehead. A large majority of this krap brass comes from Freedom Munitions. Fine as factory loaded ammo but terrible brass for reloaders! Brass like this and other garbage, cheese grade brass like AMERC are the reason I cull all of my brass which I do while running it through my Harvey Deprimer.

Besides the danger of an overpressure situation which is bad enough, this brass has another dangerous flaw! That sharp transition step from thick to thin is a severe stress riser and has confirmed cases of case separation and I have seen it happen with my own 2 eyes! I have culled out pieces of step-drawn brass that had an incipient separation ring and sectioned this brass and verified it was about to split! The brass in my examples is all one piece. When it fails, it will likely leave that thinner walled ring of brass in your chamber. Keep that in mind folks! Stay safe!

[FergusonTO35]

As long as the bullet you're loading into the newer Blazer, et. al. brass is the same length as the factory bullet was, you'll never notice the difference, unless you shorten the OAL. Look inside those cases and you'll see a slight step about half way down the case wall.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Thanks for the tip, I will look at them tonight. I have loaded the Lee 356-102-2R in them at .975 no problemo.

[OptimusPanda]

I remembered seeing a few of these cases when I did my last batch of 9mm. Didn't really think anything of it, then today got the chronograph out and looked at how fast they were going. These were all loaded on the same day, with the same primers, same powder, same bullet, same everything. I shot a few each of 4 headstamps...
RP - 1106, 1154, 1165
Win - 1147, 1171, 1151
FC - 1141, 1185, 1145
Ammoload - 1192, 1179

Maybe 30fps faster on average. These were not max loads btw.

[garym1a2]

Wow, I spotted a weird case while loading monday, I saw this thread yesterday, after digging it out of my old brass bucket its the ammoland one made like the picture. After I sort this big batch to see if I missed any I need to get better catching this stuff.
When all the problems with 9mm iys almost not worth loading 9mm.

[Forrest r]

Ammoload 9mm brass next to standard 9mm brass

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/9mmcases_zpsm6fv5tr8.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/9mmcases_zpsm6fv5tr8.jpg.html)

[ioon44]

I have developed a habit of looking at the head stamp of my brass before I insert it in the shell holder so it is easy to cull brass I don't want to load.

I have loaded the Ammoload brass with out any problems but now cull them with other odd head stamps.

[Big Dangle]

I check every headstamp when I deprime an look inside for rocks and what not and noticed that in an ammoland brass only saw that one so maybe someone reloaded it? It looked fine didn't like the "step" so I pinched it closed and tossed it in the bucket. 9mm is just way to easy to get to think about loading it.

[Ola]

Ammoload 9mm brass next to standard 9mm brass

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/9mmcases_zpsm6fv5tr8.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/9mmcases_zpsm6fv5tr8.jpg.html)

That doesn't look too bad, after all. Definitely there is a difference in volume, but is the case totally useless? I don't think so. With moderate loads it shouldn't be a safety issue in modern 9mm pistol. These stepped cases would generate little more speed and that's it.

Has anyone measured the volume of that case (f.e. with water)? How many grains of water can it hold compared to standard case?

[Newboy]

I reload those the same as all my other brass. I have not had any problems.


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[pergoman]

185176185177

[Soundguy]

Looks like web is thicker too

[GeorgeandSugar]

Can you give us a pic looking inside and the headstamp?

Thanks for the warning, I was not aware.

charlie

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/ce6161e0a8cbb565d3226e66287120a1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/41418de751cef8c015130736f5b637d4.jpg



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[GeorgeandSugar]

does this come in rifle cases?

Don't know. Once-fired 9mm brass that I bought on-line.


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[fa38]

I set my sizing die up so that the decapping stem just touches the bottom of several cases (Rem, Win etc.) and then back it off just a bit. For the cases with this internal shelf the decapping stem hits the bottom of these cases and a couple other brands of cases. Hitting the bottom is easy to feel and so far I have not bent my decapping stem.

I throw them into a separate box for recycling to the scrap metal place.

You might get away with shooting them in your gun but they are probably over pressure loads.

[fivefang]

Klcarrol, it's strange, but some 6.5 Cracano casings have a step inside the case neck,( berdan milsurp.) Fivefang

[Airborne Falcon]

I just sorted about 100 of these out of some range brass I was gifted while up in Maryland at a match.

Makes sense that they could be loaded-down for starters, run through a chrono to see what kind of numbers pop-up. I'm looking at them now ... seating 115 gr RN FMJ down to the ledge, that's gotta be a 30% decrease in case volume ... maybe at little bit of 320 or 330, I'll have to look it up but it seems doable.

My initial thoughts are these might be worth working-with but I dunno. As someone has already noted ... if it can achieve necessary velocities with decreased propellant charges without pressure issues ... I'm gonna give these a try. Too many of them showing-up lately to ignore or trash ... not if they're long-life brass. Could make stash ammo out of them at the very least.

Things have gotten tight since 2016.

[Geezer in NH]

Great post above to a 6-year-old thread. Times they do change! :goodpost: