my 50 cal 1/23 twist target muzzleloader.

[johnson1942]

got tired of shooting 700 grain bullets in it so it sat around for a couple of years. then decided to day to try round balls in it and 480 grain paper patched bullets. from a bench at 50 yards it kept about 1 and 1/2 inch groups with round balls. not great for target but accepatable. i use 50 grains of blackhorn 209 powder and a pure linen patch cut off at the muzzle. the round ball was a swaged .490 round ball. again with my old eyes they did well for a fast twist. then i shot several 480 grain swaged .493 diam single wrapped paper patched bullets. much lighter than the 700 grain i used to shoot. one hole groups at 50 yards and then i went and broke 3, 1 gallon glass jugs at 100 yards with 3 shots and 2 quart jars at 50 yards with 2 shots. the load was 60 grains of 209 powder which makes the gun shoot as a 50/70 sharps. i used a 60 thousands thick wad between powder and pp bullet. i found out i dont need to shoot a 700 grain bullet in a 1/23 twist. i was going to reline the barrel to something else but now will keep as is. i ordered a lee 360 grain mini ball mold in 50 cal and want to shoot that also. will resize them to .493 and single wrap them with 18 pound freezer wrap paper. i expect tack driveing groups. it was fun to shoot this gun again. sorry for no pictures but my wife is too busy to post some. if you do want to see it go pineridgeblackpowder.com and you can see the gun their. its a bute. glad to get that gun back in action again and want to try some long distance with it and the 360 grain bullet. fast twist do shoot round balls well with a tight patch as some one posted a while back and shoot even better the paperpatched bullets. hope to encourage others to do the same. johnson 1942.

[charlie b]

THANKS

I was just about to ask how round balls did in faster twist. Always wanted a Lyman GPH but wanted to be able to shoot round ball as well.

Guess I should go out and get one.

[johnson1942]

tight well lubed patch. about 70 grains, if your going to hunt, for powder. i had a GP Hawken type 1/32 twist. gave it to my son in denver. with 100 grains of real black behind a mmp sabot and a 250 grain 451 bullet in the sabot i could cut center at 180 yards every time. also shoot about a 350 to 400 grain paperpatched bullet very well. the reason i tried round balls in the faster twist rifle is because they use fast twist for the precussion revolver round ball guns. they shoot well with the faster twist. so why not a rifle.

[glockky]

Johnson did you ever experiment with paper patched in a 1-48" twist?

[mooman76]

I have a T/C .54 Scout with 1/20 twist that shoots them well. Despite what people say the faster twists can shoot them but you can't push them as hard. Mileage may vary.

[johnson1942]

yes i did shoot paperpatched bullets in a 45 cal. thompson 1/48 twist. shot a 250 grain 45 cal pistol bullet sized to .440 and it did one inch groups at 100 yards with 100 grains of real black behind the bullet. the .50 cal would shoot a short bullet like that sized to .493 or .492 and do very well. more shooters should try this as they can be pushed and are very accurate. i would say a cast bullet that shoots in a 1/48, 50 will do better if paperpatched and a wad is used between powder and bullet. im finding out like others the 50 cal can handle a lot of diff. weights of bullets even with a real fast twist. some old 50/70/s had real fast twist and shot 300 to 400 grain bullets very well. i really had fun with mine to day and expect the 360 grain mini to do well.

[glockky]

I was hoping the lee 400gr 500 S&W bullet would work but it's probably too long for a 1-48" twist

[johnson1942]

their is only one thing to do, try it. if you can get it to not wobble out to 150 yards , most hunting is done just to 150 yards. i have come to see that i can do perfect by figureing these things on paper with good old math but their is always the unknown factor. some cal. of bullets are just easier to stabilize than others. yours may be one of them. i always thought the springfield rifle shot a mini with way too slow of twist but it shoots it fine. try it and see. im sure it wont be a 500 yard gun but maybe a real good 200 yard gun. the best group i ever shot with a 45/70 was with a bullet that tumbled after 300 yards. at 200 yards i would get nickle size groups with it shot after shot. it was barely stable but very very accurate to 250 yards. then it went every wheres. again, try it and let us know what happens. 

[koger]

I have the 2 TC 1-48 barrels I got off Roger, a Renegade .50 and Hawken .45, both are tackdrivers! I am getting ready to order a sizer, and try some 300 grain slugs in the .45 barrel!

[johnson1942]

those are really good barrels sam, they were both cryo treated also. hope you can make it out for deer hunting in dec. matt has seen some really big bucks on a trail cam on land we can hunt on. only about a mile from where you got yours last year.

[Good Cheer]

Ideal / lyman #512138 has worked out well paper patched in 28" twist.
It's fairly short but has good contact length.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/512138a_zpsohsejqmk.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/512138a_zpsohsejqmk.jpg.html)

[rodwha]

Do the grooves help when paper patching? Seems they might to my limited understanding.

[Good Cheer]

The bigger the grooves the more possible variation you are introducing shot to shot in the way the boolit expands into the rifling... for muzzleloading no grooves is generally best.
But, (aint there always a but?) I've had a close fitted to bore boolit shed it's paper on the way towards the powder more than once.
So for patching I'd prefer to have a little something for the patch to hang to. In the case of my .52 it was designed around the idea of playing with all the available nifty fifty molds so there's gonna be some grooves under my patches.

By the way, a lot of folks shoot cartridge guns with slick sided boolits with fine results.

[rodwha]

Would maybe this design be ideal for paper patching?

http://leeprecision.com/mold-6-cav-tl452-230tc.html

[johnson1942]

if you use that bullet resized so two wraps of number nine paper or one wrap of 18 pound paper go around it and it goes down the bore with ease, yes that bullet would work well. for a 50 cal ive resized before wrapping to .492 and .493 and .494 and all those sizes worked for me. for the 45 cal ive only resized to .440 before wrapping and that has always worked for me. remember to use a wad between powder and bullet. i use the single wrap system of 18 pound freezer wrap paper and the paper comes off of the bullet right in front of the muzzle in one piece with dark groove marks on the paper. its not rocket science and so easy to do and so consistant in accuracy that im keeping with it.