ACWW for hunting

[dubber123]

Hello all, I have a question for those who have done more cast boolit hunting than me. I have been tinkering with a 30-30 load, and really haven't had a lot of time to do much testing. I am using the LEE 170 gr. RF, which weighs 178 grains with check and lube cast from air cooled wheel weights + 2% tin. Velocity is running right at 2,100 fps with good accuracy.
My concern is whether or not I can count on reasonable expansion on whitetail sized game from this alloy? I had intended on using a softer alloy, but hunting season is rapidly approaching, and I probably won't have time for much more testing. I really don't want a pencil hole in and out. If anyone has used this alloy on game, I'd sure appreciate your feedback.

Thanks :)

[aspangler]

It should expand ok at 30-30 ranges. I use the same boolit cast from 50/50 ww/pure. Golf ball sized holes.

[dubber123]

It should expand ok at 30-30 ranges. I use the same boolit cast from 50/50 ww/pure. Golf ball sized holes.


Thanks, 50/50 was my original plan, as I had good luck with it in .35 Rem at the same speeds, I just might not have the time to test it out. The WW loads seem to shoot reasonably well, and deform pretty easily in the sizer, so hopefully they will in game also.

[white eagle]

should be a winner

[nekshot]

if I remember correct Larry Gibson said for his deer loads he went 50-50 and I believe some tin, when I questioned possible leading from the soft boolit( talking of 2000 fps loads) he said you only need a few and he is correct.

[white eagle]

if I remember correct Larry Gibson said for his deer loads he went 50-50 and I believe some tin, when I questioned possible leading from the soft boolit( talking of 2000 fps loads) he said you only need a few and he is correct.

here is something Larry relayed to me :

Managed to shoot a a nice little 8 point white tail buck down Texas way a couple weeks ago at the West Kerr Ranch in Texas Hill country. Was early in the morning on a rainy day when the buck came out of the tree following a doe with his nose very close to her you know what. Had she stopped fast I might have filled my buck and doe tags with one shot!

He stopped slightly quartering about 90 yards out. I put the M14 front sight post of the M91 Argentine Mauser I rebarreled to .35 Remington 1/3rd of the way up the front shoulder and the trigger broke clean. The RCBS 35-200-FP (HP’d with the Forster tool to 1/3rd the depth of the bullet nose) cast of 50/50 WW/lead, sized .360, with a Hornady GC over 37 gr milsurp 4895 for 2150 fps hit just above point of aim. The buck humped at the shot and staggered about 20 yards to his right towards me and went down. The .35 RCBS cast bullet expanded well through the shoulder, centered and took out a rib going in, destroyed the arteries and lungs above the heart and took another rib out going out the off side. The bullet was not recovered as it passed through and through but it the damage showed obvious excellent expansion and performance. Total meat damage was minimal. I was very pleased with the performance.

The more I use the .35 Remington with the cast RCBS bullet to hunt deer, pigs and game of that size (perhaps even elk at under 200 yards) the more I feel it is perhaps the best cartridge/cast bullet combination for such. I have for years thought most .30/.31s/8mm with 170-220 gr cast bullets filled the bill nicely but the more I use the .35 Remington the more I find it to give better performance with the same attributes of being a handy cartridge/rifle package, very manageable recoil, excellent 100% loading density, easily duplicates factory J bullet velocities and versatility with a multitude of bullet choices for everything from plinking to full house hunting loads.

[runfiverun]

I think your better off with the alloy you got at the higher velocity your running.

[Wolfer]

I have no experience with ACWW at that muzzle velocity. I do however have considerable deer and coyote experience with 50/50 at 1700/1800 fps at the muzzle. This has worked so well that I can't imagine straight WW at 200/300 fps faster won't work as well or better.

My alloy runs about 10 bhn using old WWs. Some of my new WWs are not much harder than that.

[Don Fischer]

Sitting here trying to remember, my ACWW bullet's, all of them are, had a hardness of I think 12. I've been thinking, I started using PC for lube and am amazed at how clean the barrel stay's, really clean. Was wondering if a guy was to use pure lead and PC it if it would foul up the barrel? That bullet should expand pretty well I would think.

[dubber123]

I think your better off with the alloy you got at the higher velocity your running.

I had that thought too. I know 50/50 expands well, I was thinking maybe just a bit TOO well at 2,000+ I do prefer an in and out hole in case they do decide to run a bit in the thick stuff.

[quilbilly]

As others have said, you probably don't even need that much velocity with that boolit. 1700 would be enough MV out to 150 yards and it will be more enjoyable to shoot anytime since the reduction in recoil will be quite noticeable.

[Hardcast416taylor]

50/50 + tin, Carnuba Red lube, #311041 sized .311, Hornady GC, IMR -3031 or IMR-4895 powder and Winchester primers.Robert

[TXGunNut]

ACWW is what I'm planning to use this year but a bit slower than 2100fps. I've been using a heat treated 50/50 +tin alloy for boolits around 2100 fps up to about 2400 fps with good results on game and paper. These rifles (35 Rem, 35 Whelen, 45-70) seemed to prefer a harder alloy as velocities went up. Micro-groove rifling in the 35 Rem and 45-70 may have been a factor as well.

[blikseme300]

IMHO, expansion is secondary to consistent accuracy. I like and use 30-30 often and there is little difference between the 311041 and the RD165 cast from WW+2%tin running at measured 1700-1750fps in terms of lethality. South Texas white tail are not big and they don't go far, if at all, when hit in the heart/lung area.

Also, IMHO, if a good blood trail or DRT is desired use a larger caliber. My preferred South Texas lever rifle is a 444Marlin and it has taken numerous white tail and Nilgai without any trouble. Don't underestimate the potential of the 30-30 but be confident in the accuracy of your loads. Confidence goes a long way and is key to successful hunting.

[waksupi]

Paul, you are thinking like a jacketed bullet shooter. That bullet with ACWW will perform just fine for you. Remember, it is the nose that is making the wound channel. I've used the same bullet with ACWW on both deer and elk.

[dubber123]

Paul, you are thinking like a jacketed bullet shooter. That bullet with ACWW will perform just fine for you. Remember, it is the nose that is making the wound channel. I've used the same bullet with ACWW on both deer and elk.

Probably right Ric. I tried smooshing a bit more meplat on it, but it fattened the noses up too much to chamber. I'm trying to borrow some gel to pop one into to see what it does. I am betting one block won't stop it. Better get some gallon jugs lined up too :)

[44man]

50-50 scares me after I shot a big doe with my 45-70 revolver. I don't know the velocity since the boolit was 420 gr and I only know my 317 gr does 1632 fps. I guess I might have been around 1500. Anyway it was a quartering shot behind the shoulder and exited the off shoulder. I lost the entire shoulder and the deer was blood shot head to tail. It took twice as long to butcher.
I have no idea what a 50-50 would do near 2000 fps.
Fooling with my 30-30 I had excellent accuracy with a 75-25 boolit and am leaning that way if I ever hunt with it. I get 1900 fps or so.
Hard WD WW shoots good so I might cast a softer nose. Air cooled should work but remember it will age harden. You load 50 or so and use one for a deer, will you store them for next year?
I suppose not since we just shoot too much.

[JDL]

dubber,
A few years ago, in my .300 Savage 99 I was using ACWW Lyman 31141 pushed by 44 grains of H-4831 for 2083 fps. I shot a doe broadside at 50 yards which made a mad dash for 40 to 50 yards and promptly died. When I dressed her, I found both lungs with a 2-2 1/2" hole through them and an exit hole of 2".
This is about the same thing you're using except the launch platform and I think it will perform exceptionally well. Good hunting!

[dubber123]

dubber,
A few years ago, in my .300 Savage 99 I was using ACWW Lyman 31141 pushed by 44 grains of H-4831 for 2083 fps. I shot a doe broadside at 50 yards which made a mad dash for 40 to 50 yards and promptly died. When I dressed her, I found both lungs with a 2-2 1/2" hole through them and an exit hole of 2".
This is about the same thing you're using except the launch platform and I think it will perform exceptionally well. Good hunting!

Thanks for the report! I have a little smaller meplat than you did, I smoosh it a little wider in the sizer, but not much. 34.5 grains of Leverevolution is averaging 2,113 fps. This is a little faster than factory 170's, but not by a lot.

[runfiverun]

the smaller meplat is a good thing at the higher velocity.
I use the saeco #248 in my 358 win it is somewhat shaped like the 041 but with about 2/3d's the meplat diameter.
I'm running it on top of 48.5 grs of RL-19 for about 2350 fps.
if I had more meplat I don't think I'd get the penetration I do and would tear up a lot more meat.
usually a broadside shot on a deer with that combo leads to the deer rearing up and jumping forward trying to make a dash for the nearest patch of cover.
it usually doesn't make it.

[Fenring]

ACWW's is all I use. (clip on variety)

Have not used in .30 cal but have shot quite a few hogs with the 310gr Lee flat point from my .44 Ruger 96/44, launched @ 1500fps. They generally exit smaller animals as you'd expect. The ones I do recover show expansion.

http://i.imgur.com/oBFqOg2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Gpigs%202013/P1020381_zps061569db.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Fenring/media/Gpigs%202013/P1020381_zps061569db.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Gpigs%202013/P1020388_zps1215cae8.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Fenring/media/Gpigs%202013/P1020388_zps1215cae8.jpg.html)

Disregard the three on the left, they are Lyman Devastator HP's, the other is another Lee.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/Fenring/Shooting/Goodooga%202010/P1050767.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Fenring/media/Shooting/Goodooga%202010/P1050767.jpg.html)

[GooseGestapo]

I concur, you'll do fine. I have the identical Lee 170gr FNGC. Mine too casts to 178gr. I use it in .30/06 loads. I find it gives "hitchy" cycling through my .30/30's.

The only cast bullets I've ever recovered (all I used for many years was acww) showed identical expansion to fenrings picture above right.

I doubt there is a deer in North America that will stop your 170/178gr bullet.
Ive never recovered a rifle fired cast bullet, even to include some .22cal 49.5gr cast.
I've never killed a deer or pig with the 170, but me, my older brother, and nephew have killed numerous with the 150/158gr FNGC. The only one recovered was shot into an upstate New York whitetail doe that hit the last rib and raked foward into the far opposite shoulder, just under the hide. It was slightly deformed on the nose. However, it was not gaschecked, had only been tumblelubed, and loaded over 7.5gr of Unique, for perhaps 1,200fps!

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement!!!
Hit bone and vital organ, and you'll find a dead deer!
The most surprising kill I've ever made was a near spine hit just under the spine (1"). Broke two ribs in a broadside shot about 3rd vert. back from shoulder. Deer just bang-flopped.

For a "little insurance", you can drill a 5/64" - 3/8" deep hollow point.

[mattd]

I butt shot a young buck at 80y with my 30-06 and that Lee bullet at an estimated 19-2000 fps. It was air cooled. It somehow managed to not really hit any guts, or make a big mess anyway, went in and out of one lung, and exited in front of the shoulder. Pencil hole in and out, same w the lung holes. No expansion. The member i bought my WW lead from claimed it had copper in it, so maybe mine is tougher then usual. The deer only went 30y, but didn't leave any blood.

The next year I shot 2 does with a deep HP'ed 311299 cast of 75/25 WW/Pure air cooled. The first it clipped the shoulder and veered off. found it in the off side ham looking like a nosler partition mushroom. not a lot of bloodshot meat except around the hit shoulder. The second deer was thru the ribs, lungs and heart. gulf ball size hole in and out. easy blood trail. no real blood shot meat.