New 1949 Savage 99 splitting necks

[blackpowder man]

I traded into an old Savage 99 in 300 savage this morning. She's pretty and in pretty good shape. Bore looks good. So I took it, among others, and went to the range. The rifle came with a box of Remington core locks that look pretty new and were marked $31.99, so they shouldn't be too old. Shot off 13 rounds and that beautiful stock with the pretty cheekpiece smacked me in the cheekbone pretty good off the bench. I think the sights are too low and a marbles tang or redfield reciever sight and taller front sight would help with the cheek slap.
When I got home and started unpacking I pulled the brass out because my dies should be here tomorrow. 4 of them were split down the neck. I reload a lot and have for a pretty long time, but I haven't encountered this problem outsiide of old milsurps, fast .22 calibers, or fireforming brass. Not with civilian rifles in factory calibers with factory ammo. Anybody got any thoughts or similar experiences? Maybe remington's qc issue is affecting their ammo too?

[pcmacd]

Well, if I understood you correctly, this was relatively new factory brass?

If the necks split on the first firing, the brass was not properly annealed before it left the factory, I would wager.

So, if you want to continue to use those rounds:

1) pull the bullets

2) press out the primers (you can likely re-use them ok if you do it gently, or, what I'd likely do is just toss them.)

3) save the propellant; either keep track of the amount per cartridge, or weight the whole lot at the end and divide by the number of pulldowns.

3) anneal the necks. this is LOTS easier than you think it is:::

I like to use Tempilaq 650F (six hundert fifty degress F), available from any number of sources, a LEE caseholder in a battery operated drill, and a regular propane torch.

Put a stripe of Tempilaq on the shoulder/body transition. Put the cart in the drill/caseholder and spin it. Put the torch at the body/neck junction (where the BODY turns into the 20 or 30 degree transition to the NECK. Spin it and apply heat. Pay attention to the color of the Tempilaq!

When the Tempilaq goes from orange to brown, stick the brass into a pan of water, then remove it from the LEE chuck, and... VOILA! (they really DO say that in France, you know.)

They will probably last a very long time after this treatment.

4) Reload with your annealed brass, the pulled bullets, the collected propellant, etc., undsoweiter?

This is sooo much easier to do than it would ever seem from my description... I can do 3 or 4 cases per minute with this approach! No fancy stuff needed.

Assuming you already have a drill, the LEE case holder (they use it for neck or length trimming and such) will cost less than $10, and the Tempilaq about the same. $20 and you are set to make most of the brass you own last freakin' forever!

[buckshotshoey]

I would suggest shooting those up, and buy bulk brass. Ive had good luck with Winchester brass. Currently using Starline.

If your bulk brass starts splitting, then you have bigger problems then improper annealed brass. A chamber cast is your next step.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It has to be either something wrong with the chamber or something wrong with the necks. Normally I would say there is no substitute for a chamber case, or a soft lead slug hammered into the neck and throat area. But actually the necks of the fired cases (split or unsplit is unlikely to make a difference) are a pretty fair substitute. They shouldn't be larger than the SAAMI specified .340 front, .3423 rear of the neck, with a tolerance of .002in. over those figures. The unfired cartridges shouldn't be under .339 and .3407 at the same points.

If the brass and steel dimensions are all right, it has to be hardness of the brass. It seems unlikely that this would be true of modern Remington rounds, but if they came with the rifle, from someone you don't know well, it is possible that they have been reloaded several times and polished.

[sharps4590]

This is a recent occurrence that happened to a friend of mine and might be a stretch in your case. He bought a 99 marked for 243 and he too was splitting case necks and accuracy was abysmal. Turns out his had been re-chambered, re-bored and re-rifled to 260 Rem. and not marked as to the change. How was the accuracy from your rifle? If it shot pretty good then I'd suspect the brass a lot more than the chamber and what happened to my friend.

[buckshotshoey]

It has to be either something wrong with the chamber or something wrong with the necks. Normally I would say there is no substitute for a chamber case, or a soft lead slug hammered into the neck and throat area. But actually the necks of the fired cases (split or unsplit is unlikely to make a difference) are a pretty fair substitute. They shouldn't be larger than the SAAMI specified .340 front, .3423 rear of the neck, with a tolerance of .002in. over those figures. The unfired cartridges shouldn't be under .339 and .3407 at the same points.

If the brass and steel dimensions are all right, it has to be hardness of the brass. It seems unlikely that this would be true of modern Remington rounds, but if they came with the rifle, from someone you don't know well, it is possible that they have been reloaded several times and polished.


After my above post, I was thinking this ↑ also. Could have been reloded to many times. As long as the case body just ahead of the head isnt stretching or spliting, shoot em up and put in brass recycle bin.

[dverna]

Are you sure they were factory rounds and not reloads?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I would suspect bad brass. Hornady is making .300 Savage brass. Cut-off(trimmed) .308 Win brass works well. I usually use cut-off LC 7.62x51, or Winchester 300 Savage from a closeout bulk purchase years ago. Haven't had any issues with a half dozen different 300 Savage rifles. Again try different brass. I've seen split necks with factory 35 Rem brass in a Marlin that had fired hundreds of rounds without any probems. Check orientation of brass in chamber, see if split occurs in same position all the time, though top might split more often due to gravity positioning case neck. First try other brass, then a cerrosafe chamber cast IF it happens with the other brass.

[bikerbeans]

Lot of recoil and split necks, kinda sounds like hot handloads.

BB

[gnoahhh]

You can encounter the odd lot of bad factory brass from any of the factories, although it is rare. My guess would be that these cases weren't annealed properly in the manufacturing process. get some more cases, anneal them, and try again.

I would take a rasp to that ultra-high comb if it were mine, but that's just my opinion. I'll bet the gun was built for a guy with a small face to shoot it with a scope.

[pietro]

.

The rounds that came with the rifle could very well be reloads that have had a troublesome case neck annealing, ergo the splitting.

Also, since the rifle's stock has obviously been modified/changed, I would take a hard look at the chamber & check that the chamber/throat also hasn't likewise been changed ("improved"), via making a cerrosafe casting of the chamber.


.

[blackpowder man]

Thanks for the replies, I think (and hope) I just got some brittle brass. I'm pretty certain these are fairly new factory rounds. I don't think the box had ever been opened and hopefully it is just an ammo issue. My dies should be here today and I already have some 308 winchester brass ready to go. hopefully they won't require neck turning. Once I get things set up for this thing it will become primarily a cast boolit shooter.

[corbinace]

You should be able to measure the spent brass and get some clue as to the chamber dimensions, as they are now fire formed to said chamber.

That should be able to give a clue as to whether the chamber is modified.

[KeithNyst]

Are you sure they were factory rounds and not reloads?

I was thinking the same thing; my .300 Savage 99 kicks much less than my 99 .308.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The .308 has a very slightly thicker neck than the .300, and cases made from .30-06 might be thicker still at the length to which they would be shortened. It isn't impossible that someone enlarged the chamber neck to facilitate their use.

[Geezer in NH]

I will bet bad ammo. Trust no ammo that comes with an old gun IMHO

[wv109323]

You can anneal the good cases. Take a 1/4" extension and chuck it in a drill. Find a deep well socket that the case fits into loosely. In a dark area heat the case with a propane torch(rotating the case with the drill) till the brass turns red. Dump the case into a bucket of water. You can time the heating by counting 1001,1002 etc.

[runfiverun]

the shape of those cases doesn't look right.

[OverMax]

Strip the rest of those gun shop Remingtons down for there bullets & primers. Then pitch em.
Curious? were the Remington's easy-peasy to chamber? (i.e. no unusual extra forcing required)

Tip: I found trimming 308s Federal brass to 300 use gives me better accuracy and longer brass life. But in doing one needs to know how-to anneal brass properly. As I found first fires from some other gun often requires annealing before there F.L. resizing.

Frankly: I do-not like nor do I use Remington brass in any of my long guns.

[TXGunNut]

Nice looking rifle in a sweet chambering. Something's not adding up, I think your loads will behave differently as my old 99 in 300 Savage is quite pleasant to shoot. I'm thinking it could be a bad batch of brass but a hard look at the chamber will be in order if you loads have similar issues. Good luck in your detective work, I think your efforts will be rewarded. Those old 99's are nice rifles.

[Texas by God]

My cousin's 99 .300 from that era has a large chamber. Fired cases are visibly swelled ahead of the web. Try different ammo and if they split- time for a gunsmith. Best, Thomas.

[Texas by God]

This is a recent occurrence that happened to a friend of mine and might be a stretch in your case. He bought a 99 marked for 243 and he too was splitting case necks and accuracy was abysmal. Turns out his had been re-chambered, re-bored and re-rifled to 260 Rem. and not marked as to the change. How was the accuracy from your rifle? If it shot pretty good then I'd suspect the brass a lot more than the chamber and what happened to my friend.
A Sav 99 in .260 would be a hoot. Great cartridge I'm told. Did it shoot well with .260 ammo?

[HawkEyeEarl]

I have had boxes of older ammo where nearly every piece of brass would split and other old boxes would not split.
That is a bummer when you buy the old box for seed brass.

[blackpowder man]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I annealed the R-P cases that didn't split and formed some from winchester .308 brass and annealed them too. Got a chance to load a few with cast and shot them off yesterday. Loads were 18 grains of IMR 4227, half with the 170 rf lee and half with the lee 200. They grouped better and were much closer to the sights than the remington factory loads. Brass came out looking good and cheek slap was greatly reduced. I think this old 99 and I may just get along good afterall.
Funny thing that I never buy factory ammo and can't remember the last time I used factory ammo in a new to me gun. I know some feel factory ammo gives them a baseline, but I prefer to start with my own. I can also usually buy a box of bullets or a lb of powder for what 1 box of loaded ammo costs, especially these days. Between experience, loading maunuals, and researching the net and wonderful forums like this it is amazing all the great starting points and combos a reloader can find.

[nekshot]

I really like your gun but I also would head to the shop with that butt stock and start making dust with that cheek piece. Gun might be a pound lighter when done!!

[blackpowder man]

Thank you and I I agree the cheek piece is a bit large. I think I will save for a little and watch for an older marbles tang sight and see if it is still too tall.

[flounderman]

I would compare the fired cases with a new factory case. I can't tell from pictures, but I wonder about the shape. Take a bullet and see how loose it fits the fired neck. It could be brass, but I think it has too much room to expand.