Switching hawken to 209

[glockky]

Is there a down side to switching over a percussion style rifle to shoot 209 primers? The caps are fine with me for shooting but the 209 primers can be bought for half the price. Plus the federal and CCI 209 primers are available at several local gun shops for $32-35/1000

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

super slow recapping and a ton of fouling that at times, locks up the screw on cap.

[Edward]

I had some issues with ignition ,solved that with help on this forum and currently have 6 barrels with Magspark and CCI 209 using Blackhorn 209 and black powder 2+3F . I really like it in my long range GM barrels as the. Crono shows faster/flatter with a lower S D using Bl209.It sure takes a little more time to load but muzzle loaders never were the fastest assault weapon just one of the earlier ones!The fouling is easy,just spit on the primer turns to steam and removal not a problem,I do use a little anti seize for removal from the barrel.It is a closed system,nice in bad weather !

[Good Cheer]

Fixing to try those out myself... eventually.

Do you get less breach fouling with the more forceful primer blast?
Do you still fire a cap through after cleaning?

[Edward]

More fouling with black powder than BH 209 , I get better burn with the Magspark ,and BH 209 results in a faster trip down range according to chrono and full mushroom @200 yd while 2F black same 80 gr load leaves the back half of the slug intact! I use the Magspark for all propellants ,but mainly because it enables me to shoot BL209 @ long range! I do wipe between shots for target use .

[Omnivore]

I use regular percussion caps. If the cost of caps is breaking the bank, what are you shooting; a thousand rounds per week?

I've had only one misfire in hunting in ten years, using the factory Lyman nipple and Remington #11 caps, and that was after hunting in the rain for two days and not reloading - a dumb mistake on my part.

You can go the intermediate route and simply replace the nipple with one for musket caps. Musket caps are more powerful than any #10 or #11 percussion cap. If you still have ignition problems, it's all your fault. I don't know how else to say it. The system as shipped from the factory is perfectly serviceable, and so the musket cap would be extra, for when you're dumb like me and let your flash channel get wet, and even so, a wet flash channel probably won't light the main charge no matter the ignition system (it's mainly a matter of how hard the water is being blasted into the main charge).

Make sure there's no wet oil or grease in the flash channel, or the patent breech chamber, after cleaning. Snap a cap and swab the breech chamber before reloading, keep the water out of it, and you're good to go with what you have. I've never used solvents to remove oil either, and I've often failed to snap a cap before that first loading after cleaning, and only rain has caused a misfire. You don't have a problem that needs solved with technology.

[koger]

I might caution against CCI primers of any type. I used them for years, loaded up some very expensive BR Ammo, and the primers were so hard, the firing pin bounced off them, in 2 of my custom rifles, with firing pins springs that are 8 pounds heavier than factory springs. I called CCI, they stated that happened from time to time, sorry about my luck. I tossed the rest of the 1000ct brick and never looked back10 years ago. Last year I got 2000 in a bulk buy, and some of them were bad, never will I use them again. Would be hell to pull the trigger on a world class buck, and just hear snap! Just my experience, from 30+ years of reloading and gunsmithing.

[koehlerrk]

I bought a mag spark when I first got back into front stuffers. Had to as right then caps were impossible to buy around here. They worked just fine. Never tried them in the rain, so cant comment there. Made reloading slower, and no real benefit other than I could get 209 primers right then. Once I could get caps locally, I pulled the mag spark and went back to a #11 nipple. However, I have no interest in getting rid of it. I cleaned it up good and packed it away, just in case I ever need it again.

As to the mag spark itself, mine was very well built, worked beautifully, every single time. Never tried it with anything but Ye Holy Black, may screw it back in to try Blackhorn...

[BigAl52]

Maybe its just me. All these black powder substitutes and these 209 primers just take away from the original part of muzzleloaders to begin with. To each there own but Im all about Blackpowder and the original caps. Al

[OverMax]

Is there a down side to switching over a percussion style rifle to shoot 209 primers? No I don't think so when it has to do with side lock use. I have Mag Sparks mounted on a G/M quick twist 45 cal barrel and on two 54 cal T/C Hawken models both having factory barrels. One barrel has a 1-48 twist the other is a T/C factory 1-66 twist for patched ball only.
I do not load substitute powders in my 54s. Only the G/M 45 quicky twist see's a sub powder. i.e. Triple 777 2-FFG granular.

Prior to my purchase of Mag Sparks nipples. I read the Mag Spark sites Testimonials. I took the testimonials advice and use Winchester 209s exclusivity. I have never incurred a misfire or broken Mag Spark part when big game hunting afield or at the target range in 5 years of my use.. Would I use CCI 209s? Absolutely Not!! I've been told by other shooters CCI stainless cups are harder than everyone else's. And I've known that CCI disappointing product info for well over 40 years.

[oldracer]

I first had the experience with 209 primers with a rifle I bought from Roger here on this site. He uses them and swears by them and I was very happy with the performance. I tried using the Mag Spark adapter in a couple other rifles and found no difference in accuracy or grouping with patched round balls or 540 grease grove bullets. Several things to note: use a small piece of pipe tape on the threads before putting in the powder barrel. Wet the primer with some spit before inserting so the fired primer will come out easier. Find a drill bit to use as a reamer to clean the inside of the adapter after each shot and blow out any soot. Try to use a hammer that has a flat striking area as some that have a recess might prevent the little nib that is struck from firing the 209. Finally NEVER dry fire the adapter with the cap in place as it can break the adapter.

As for better fire, I am not sure as I did try both percussion caps and 209 primers the same day at the range and they produced the same grouping with a 50 caliber patched round ball at 50 yards. With my recently completed 45 caliber under hammer I use the Mag Fire to keep from burning the fore end wood in the nipple area. Works very well for that.

[Fiddleharp]

Funny thing about those Mag Spark adapters. When I sorted through my "pawnshop bag o' goodies" I came across four of these adapters, plus several sleeves containing hundreds of CCI Small Rifle Primers. Those, plus a few other items, I'd never seen before and had no idea what they were. After getting answers from the Modern Muzzleloading forum, I started using the Mag Sparks and the rifle primers and haven't had a hangfire or misfire so far.
Of course, in some hunting scenario where I needed a "quick" reload, I'd be SOL!