My free muzzle loader.

[Tackleberry41]

Somebody I know had handed me the parts wanting me to do all the work of putting it together, so they can use it. I ignored it, and we have since parted ways.

177210

I guess they are sold under the traditions brand now vs CVA. He did not have the box, just the foam inner box with the parts in it. And seems the newer kits require a bit more effort. I have an old CVA I bought 20 yrs ago, all I had to do was put some sort of finish on the stock and assemble it. This one the barrel is in the white, and nothing just fits together. Will take quite a bit of sanding to fix it. Not gonna pay to have the barrel blued, not sure it would fit in my oven to duracoat.

Its 45 cal, I did not know they made them that caliber. My old one is 50. Closest mold I have is a .457 RB mold. The barrel isnt marked as to twist like my old one. But some 45-40 cal sabots should get it at least shooting. Have considered converting it to flint lock.

[mooman76]

These were made for Traditions and CVA and quite a few other companies getting into the BP market many years ago. 45 was pretty much the norm when they first started out but we all want bigger and better so 50 so became more popular and now most common. Yes they took allot of sanding to get these to have good fit. The twist was usually 1-66 but you can check with a little math and a tight patch on the jag. Your barrel should be close to 33". Mark the rod and if it does half a turn when pushed all the way in, it's 1-66. 440 balls will probably work well in it. You can brown the barrel with Birchwood plum brown. Heat the barrel with a torch until it's really hot and wipe on. you will need repeat this step about 4 or more times. Directions come with it. You can also not finish it like some do. Just use it and oil it and eventually turns a nice gray. I have several of these and enjoy them very much so have fun. Sabot by the way probably won't work. It has too slow of a twist but doesn't hurt to give it a try.

[hc18flyer]

Rust browning is very easy and provides an excellant finish. 20 years ago I put together a Lyman GPR and rust browned the parts, wouldn't do it any other way now. Go to 'Track of the Wolf' website for the details. Flyer

[Tackleberry41]

The other CVA kit gun in 50 cal is 1-48, all sorts of info is etched into the barrel. This other one, just says 'Jukar' and 'spain'. Its been sitting in a pile, I wasnt gonna mess with it at all, expecting the guy to eventually say 'oh hey did you finish that rifle' and I put a bunch of work into it so it can rust in his closet, since he admitted he really doesnt plan to do any muzzle loading. But he has since cut off contact and forgot I had the rifle. But if he had it, it would just be a pile of parts to rust in the garage.

That first kit, it was bought in the early 90s, was a breeze to assemble, didnt have to fit anything. This newer one, nothing fits anything else. Even the front part of the stock is a good 1/8 thicker on each side than the back. The lock work wont fit without effort, and the holes aren't even drilled right.

So a 440 mold? Midway also lists a .445. I see they list a lee R.E.A.L. mold but am not real impressed with the one I have for a 50. I imagine the .450 minie would work as a conical?

[thx997303]

Rust browning is fairly easy, and gives a great looking brown finish. It's what I did on my hawken kit a few years ago.

If you have the ability to boil the entire barrel, you can rust blue using the same process as browning, with the added boiling step.

[mooman76]

Yes the very early ones weren't made all that great and had allot to be desired. Took more work to put together. On a good note though, once you get them together, they were usually very good shooters. Some people part them out and sell on ebay and make more money that way than the original cost. If you REALs didn't shoot good in your 50 with a 1-48 twist, they should have. Many find good results with a over powder wad. I thought about rust browning mine but with the dry climate here, I would have to build a sweat box.

[thx997303]

I placed mine in the bathroom with the shower running hot, then sealed in the humidity when it was just right.

[Tackleberry41]

Cant complain about my old one, well except it does not like to go off. Took me a bit to figure out gotta use the real stuff vs substitutes. The angles from the nipple to barrel on CVA guns. Not fond of the stock, its like it was designed to injure. I know its traditional with that curve and nice sharp brass points to get your shoulder on recoil. But it does shoot straight. Tho I foolishly followed the manual that CVA put in the box, I knew little about such things back then. That putting the 100gr they said in it, it wouldn't hit a barn from the inside. Back it off to a reasonable level and its pretty accurate.

I tried the REAL in my inline, it was terrible. Lucky if it would even hit the target, much less any accuracy. I have read they are a bit sensitive to the charge. Maybe its the faster twist. Might work better in the CVA, havent messed with it in a while, to many other projects.

Would that 450 minie ball work in this gun?

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/001_2.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/001_2.jpg.html)
This is a .45 CVA Jukar Kit Rifle a bloke gave me as a Kit.It has 1 in 66"rifling.It shoots a 437 ball with denim patch and 65 grains of 3f BP.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/006-2.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/006-2.jpg.html)
The Kit as it was.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/001_1.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/001_1.jpg.html)
The Rifle in the white during build.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/002-35.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/002-35.jpg.html)
It was necessary to modify the Breach plug since someone had deactivated the barrel by driving a Steel pin into the Touch Hole.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/002-34.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/002-34.jpg.html)
The New Breach Plug under construction.

[rodwha]

The crescent butt plates are meant to ride on the arm and not the shoulder/arm pit like a traditional rifle.

The REALs often require a wad to shoot well. My Lyman Deerstalker with deeper PRB grooves and 1:48" twist shot the first poorly with it keyholing at 50 yds and striking nearly a foot to the left. With a wad the next two were nearly touching and just below the bull using 70 grns of 3F. I bought a mold (320 yrd .50 cal) after seeing that!

[mooman76]

As far as the .450 minie, it's kind of a try it and see thing. Minies usually like shallow rifling but not always.

[yeahbub]

My experience with the .50 cal. REAL were disappointing at first. Another fellow mentioned his greatly benefitted from cloth-patching the bottom driving band just like patching a ball. Trimming the patch took a moment longer than a ball, but it worked very well, best with the short REAL rather than the heavy, due to the 1:66 twist. A Minie is pretty long and may not do well, but one can only try them and see.

[Tackleberry41]

I doubt I will do more than get a RB mold, just not something I will use to much. I have several other muzzle loaders that dont get used much. I will have to hunt down the little screw that goes in the side of the nipple sleeve. Its missing from the parts. Hopefully its a common thread, the one in my old CVA cant be removed anymore. That old school slotted screw just wont come out.

[mooman76]

The crew is common but metric. I have one in a gun that I need to remove that is stuck. It doesn't really have to be removed but bugs me that it doesn't. I usually remove them occasionally when cleaning and put a drop of oil on the threads otherwise they do get to the point where they won't remove. I tried the short REAL in mine that is just like yours. Didn't shoot that great but not too bad like it was on the edge of stability. I never tried a wad under it either.

[yeahbub]

On that nipple drum screw, a trick I learned from dire necessity (Note to self: powder FIRST - then the ball!) was to set the screw in paraffin or beeswax while still hot after cleaning and the boiling water flush. While it was hot, I touched beeswax or paraffin to the drum threads and the screw so they both melted a generous anointing into the threads, then turning the screw in finger tight. Once cooled, the wax will hold the screw in place, and powder fouling will never be able to force its way in there and become BP threadlocker. If you ever need to remove it, it'll back out pretty as you please. It was also useful to drop a small chip of wax down the bore to melt a bead around the circumference of the breech face to prevent fouling intrusion into the breech threads.

[Tackleberry41]

The cheap little screw in my old one is not coming out without considerable effort. A slotted screw, theres just not much to turn against. It would have to be drilled out. New one I will use a different screw one you can apply some force to and more effort into making sure it wont get stuck.

[725]

I've had the same problem with drum screws. It's easy to drill 'em out and re-tap with a larger screw. Use a hex head or socket head to replace. Some (and I'm one) think it's and ugly feature, but it's a blessing when you load a dry ball or have a difficult charge. Unscrew the drum screw, and add a pinch of powder and a difficult charge will go and a dry ball will pop out and go a few feet down range. Now my cleaning protocol always includes pulling the drum screw, cleaning the drum & screw, applying anti-seize and reassembling. Turns out beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

[yeahbub]

The factory screws tend to be soft steel and the head gets grossly distorted or they twist off. I've had some success at avoiding having to drill them out by soaking with Kroil or equal parts ATF and acetone. The acetone will thin the ATF and get it in there. After a week or so, it'll be ready to try. I used slip-joint pliers to grab the head around the outside, the plier teeth creating a wrenching feature in the edges of the head. it was still stiff to move, but it came out. I replaced it with a grade 5 socket head cap screw with a rounded profile.

[Tackleberry41]

I have soaked that screw several times, theres just nothing to grab to twist it out. The newer one looks to take a flat screw vs beveled like the older one.

[StolzerandSons]

Its been sitting in a pile, I wasnt gonna mess with it at all, expecting the guy to eventually say 'oh hey did you finish that rifle' and I put a bunch of work into it so it can rust in his closet, since he admitted he really doesnt plan to do any muzzle loading. But he has since cut off contact and forgot I had the rifle. But if he had it, it would just be a pile of parts to rust in the garage.

Am I missing something here? Is this another persons property that you weren't going to mess with but since he has cut off contact and now you feel that you own it(did you try to return it to him? or even mention you still have it?), you are going to go ahead and build it for yourself.

Is there more to the story because so far this doesn't paint you in a very good way.

[Tackleberry41]

Am I missing something here? Is this another persons property that you weren't going to mess with but since he has cut off contact and now you feel that you own it(did you try to return it to him? or even mention you still have it?), you are going to go ahead and build it for yourself.

Is there more to the story because so far this doesn't paint you in a very good way.

Well someone gave him the kit, probably found in the back of a closet. If he had it, it would slowly rust in a closet. Hes had the same 1911 apart for 4 yrs 'gonna finish it'. I didnt say 'hey Ill take that and finish it'. I asked 'get yourself a muzzle loader', so he was taking advantage of my usual generosity. And expected me to do all the work, for nothing, as usual. And he does owe me money, I had threaded a barrel for a friend of his, dropped it off my last visit. The usual story about not being able to get ahold of them. But he also would generally forget to even tell his son we were coming to visit. Aint for him, doesn't really matter. I had an extra ticket for a concert last year, so he went, no gas money, nor did he buy any beer. And spent the whole trip with his nose in his phone. We had our falling out, I asked about the cash 'yea, yea, yea'. I am not holding my breath a money order will show up.

It will be like the bow he swore he could order when he worked at bass pro. I gave him the cash, then I was pestering him after several months of no bow. Then I found out they do not even make a lefty version of the bow. I was being a jerk after 6 mo. He had spent the money, now I was taking food out of his kids mouths.

I havent done diddly squat to it, still a pile of unfinished parts in the garage. If he pays me whats owed, Ill send it to him. If not it cost me $40, well whatever time I had in threading the barrel. He was also the one who shot my chrony and just said 'well that sucks, guess we cant use that anymore'.

[Glassman66]

Well someone gave him the kit, probably found in the back of a closet. If he had it, it would slowly rust in a closet. Hes had the same 1911 apart for 4 yrs 'gonna finish it'. I didnt say 'hey Ill take that and finish it'. I asked 'get yourself a muzzle loader', so he was taking advantage of my usual generosity. And expected me to do all the work, for nothing, as usual. And he does owe me money, I had threaded a barrel for a friend of his, dropped it off my last visit. The usual story about not being able to get ahold of them. But he also would generally forget to even tell his son we were coming to visit. Aint for him, doesn't really matter. I had an extra ticket for a concert last year, so he went, no gas money, nor did he buy any beer. And spent the whole trip with his nose in his phone. We had our falling out, I asked about the cash 'yea, yea, yea'. I am not holding my breath a money order will show up.

It will be like the bow he swore he could order when he worked at bass pro. I gave him the cash, then I was pestering him after several months of no bow. Then I found out they do not even make a lefty version of the bow. I was being a jerk after 6 mo. He had spent the money, now I was taking food out of his kids mouths.

I havent done diddly squat to it, still a pile of unfinished parts in the garage. If he pays me whats owed, Ill send it to him. If not it cost me $40, well whatever time I had in threading the barrel. He was also the one who shot my chrony and just said 'well that sucks, guess we cant use that anymore'.


A guy can't afford to have a friend like that very long!


Randy

[Tackleberry41]

A guy can't afford to have a friend like that very long!


Randy

Hes the drug dealing cop and fake vet from my stolen valor thread.