Loose neck problems

[Tumtatty]

I've been running into a problem lately as I reload for my Swede 96 and my K98. The boolits are often loose in the case neck and will spin in place or perhaps sink deeper into the neck.

I've been using the Lee collet dies. However I've tried full length resizing as well as using a neck expander (thinking that the gas check was slightly larger than the sized boolit and perhaps was stretching the neck). However none of this seems to solve my problem.

It seems that the first few times a case is reloaded everything goes fine, but now I start getting "loose" rounds every 3rd boolit or so.

I have been combating this with the factory crimp die, but that often seats a loose boolit deeper than I intended.

This problem has led to be bringing boolits of 5 or 6 different lengths out to the range. It's getting very frustrating.

What "noob" mistake am I making:???:?

[docone31]

I have the same issue. I have the Lee Collet dies for my .303. I have to put the cartridge on top of the shell holder to reduce the neck. It doesn't seem to crimp the case, just make it tight.
I have contacted Lee with this issue and they told me to read the instructions.
With these, I use the Lee Hand Loader tool, put the case in top of the shell holder, and squeeze the neck. The tool feels like it "jumps" at the last part, but, it doesn't crimp the neck.
I would load the cartridge and the bullet would fall into the powder. It was too tight to pull out by hand, but it would just fall in.
That way works for me, try it.

[leftiye]

I don't think there is any way out of attributing what you describe as being a loosely sized neck. Either your sizing dies don't size down enough, or your expander is too large.

What Docone describes seems to be a poorly designed, and manufactured die. Either neck sizing in a full length die (short of affecting the shoulder), or full length sizing should size the neck to the point where a crimp is immaterial (unless your boolit is a bore riding design, and the bearing portion has entered the case to a point below the neck). I do like Lee's factory crimp dies though.

If your gas check is larger than your boolit, run it through the proper sizing die (again). Whatever spring back there is in a gas check shouldn't be enough to size a case neck up and make it loose. A good tight neck should actually show a bump where the gas check is in that case.

[Billwnr]

I switched from the Lee collett die to the Redding neck sizing die that took bushings to get around this problem. This way I could control the amount of neck sizing I required.

[Ricochet]

I've had a lot of trouble with Lee collet neck sizers not adequately sizing necks after they've been sized several times and work harden. Happens fastest in the smaller calibers. Lee says to either turn down the mandrel another thousandth or so, or anneal the case necks.

[725]

I've got the same problem with a .270 that I use Lees dies for. I plan on "reducing" the expander with some 600 wet sanding paper and flitz.

[Ricochet]

Spinning it in a drill and holding a file to it works. That's about the most high tech machine shop equipment I have.

[fourarmed]

Try this before turning down the mandrel on the Lee Collet NS die: First, disassemble the die and inspect the top of the collet and the closing bevel. If there is galling, clean it up with a file and sandpaper. Lube the surfaces lightly with grease and reassemble the die. Set it according to the directions.

Size a case, rotate it a quarter to a half of a turn, and size it again. I have found that the second sizing will reduce the neck diameter about another thousandth. A third sizing has no significant effect.

I should add that my measurements were done on recently annealed cases. The effect may be less on cases that have been fired many times.

[Lead melter]

To find out where the problem does lie, follow these steps.

Measure the inside neck diameter of a fired cartridge...be sure to write it down. This figure minus the boolit diameter will tell you about how much open space is in the chamber for neck expansion.

Remove the expander plug from the Lee die, and resize with the collet or with the full length die that you have. Now measure the inside diameter of the cartridge neck. It should be smaller than the boolit diameter.

Replace the expander body and resize with your collet or full length die. Then measure the inside diameter of the neck. It SHOULD be even smaller than that which has been resized without the expander.

Now you have 3 different sizes of neck diameter and you can see where the problem lies. If you have this data and contact Lee, I'm sure they will send a replacement. I once had a 45 Colt sizer that cracked the cases. A burr in the carbide insert was the culprit. A call to Lee with the info got one on the way with no hassle and no charge.

Good luck.

[Dark Helmet]

Had a similar problem with cases that had a crimp on them, the collet seemed to only resize the crimped part- I polished the mandel down a little where the collet sized the case at, fixed it!

[montana_charlie]

It seems that the first few times a case is reloaded everything goes fine, but now I start getting "loose" rounds every 3rd boolit or so.
Responders have suggested measuring case necks before and after sizing operations, and that is always a good thing to do...even if you don't have problems. It gives you a baseline to work from if problems arise in the future.

But, your problem occurs after loading a given case a certain number of times.
Therefore, it stands to reason that something about THE CASE is changing...not the dies, bullets, gas checks, or expanders.

Think about the changes that take place when a case is fired, and explore the possibilities.
CM

[jonk]

I have that issue with SOME brass as well. PMC to be specific. Brass thickness matters is all I'm saying. Which is a GOOD thing for my .268 cruise missle bullet.

I also find that with the Lee 6.5 collet I have to lean my whole weight into it on the Rockchucker, whereas with the 30-06 I have no such issues.

[docone31]

I have considered grinding some off the bottom of the die. I do not have the machines so I have just considered it. If I could just get 1/32 more, I wouldn't need to put the shell on top of the shell holder.

[Wayne Smith]

Alternatively, your dies are telling you when to anneal. That may be an advantage.

[OeldeWolf]

To me, it sounds like time to anneal the case necks. I track my cases, and anneal them every 5 firings. So far I have not had a problem like you are describing. Btw, I am referring tio the 6.6 ammo I use in my M96 swedes.

[Tumtatty]

Thanks for the help guys. Tell me about how to annealing. Where do I go for info?

I did a search but didn't come up with much.

Thanks!

[montana_charlie]

Annealing can be real easy...or a hassle. The important part is to make sure you don't heat a case too much.

Find a way to spin a case. One way is to get a socket that the case fits in nicely with the neck exposed. A deep well socket might be best for long rifle caes.
Put it on a long (six inch) extension to provide a 'handle' for spinning the socket and case in the flame of a propane torch.

Hold the neck of the case in the flame, keep it turning, count to about five or six, dump the case out of the socket.

If you are using clean, shiney, brass...a blue color change is a great place to stop. Once you get into any of the red colors, you are on the verge of going too far.

When you dump the case, you CAN drop it in water...but it is not necessary. But DO try to drop it where it won't get dented.
CM

[jonk]

Another oft touted method is to stand the case in water about 1/3 of the way up and heat the neck, then as it just starts to get orange tip it over.

[OeldeWolf]

I have used the method of standing the cases in a pan of water, but have settled on an easier method.

I hold the base of the case with the fingers of my left hand, and the propane torch in my right hand. I heat the case neck with the torch while spinning the case slowly in my fingers. When the base of the case is uncomfortable to hold, it gets dropped to the cooling area.

The necks get annealed, and your fingers act as a safety feature to keep the bases from getting annealed/soft.

[DLCTEX]

I find that the water quench helps to stop scaling of the brass from oxidation of hot brass. DALE

[mtgrs737]

I had the oposite problem, too much sizing on the case neck for my swede. The bore on my swede was running about .2675" so the standard .
266" cast boolit was too small to seal and shoot well. I got an oversized mould from a GB here and then had buckshot make me a die that sized .2693" diameter and I had the boolit part of this puzzle solved. I then purchased a new set of Lee collet dies in 6.5 x 55mm and sent them to Lee along with a couple of boolits, cases and $10. Lee modified the dies and sent them back to me inside of two weeks. The lee dies seem to work well so far. I use the universal expanding die and the factory crimp die to complete the loading team. I may have problems after shooting and reloading the cases several times but so far all is well.